Just need some opinions on whether this is normal?

[funnymummyspeaks]

My DH and I have been together a long time and have two DD's. Our youngest is under 3 and has never been a good sleeper and as a result I am constantly tired (DH is too but refuses to admit it and stays up late every night watching tv). I have also recently returned to working FT which I am also finding exhausting. To cut a long story short, my libido has taken a nose dive ever since DD2 was born and DH likes to moan about this (alot). We probably only ever get down to it once or twice a month at the moment and generally that is when I feel under duress to perform as I hear lots of little digs about how hard this is on him. I have been told (apparently as a joke ) a few times that 'this is why men cheat on their wives, and he regularly accuses me of rejecting him or not fancying him instead of just understanding that I am extremely tired and just want to relax/sleep when I am home from work and the kids are asleep. It has also been known to cause rows when he will be sulky all day without telling me why and then eventually blow up that it is because he has needs and is not 'getting laid' enough! Last night, I was falling asleep on the sofa because I was so exhausted and when we went to bed I was ready to crash out. He decides to start watching a programme and at the same time starts attempting to get things going. I have to admit that because I was so tired, I completely ignored his advances and in actual fact, rather than getting me going, he actually irritated me as I felt it was extremely selfish of him to ignore my tiredness and try to stop me from sleeping in order to satisfy his needs. Anyway, fast forward to this morning when he was in a terrible mood and was snapping at me and generally being unpleasant (he is not a morning person), I told him that he needs to try to be less grumpy in the morning because it is not fair on the rest of the family and once again had it thrown at me: 'if I got laid more I wouldn't be this grumpy'. Writing this all down I realise it doesn't sound very good but, I do love him, find him attractive and he is my best friend as well as husband and I don't want to lose him.... I am simply tired and all this pressure does nothing to help the return of my libido! AIBU or is he? Am I alone in this?

Weekly massages etc. can only work if there is no pressure to actually have sex.

Until he stops putting pressure on her (and she gets enough sleep!), the OP has no idea if she wants to sleep with him of her own free will or not.

What age is he, he sounds about 12 years old, what a child. So you are having sex about twice a month and this is you denying him his needs - sorry but I don't get it, you are having sex regularly with him so what the hell is his problem - I'd be very concerned about his attitude towards you, ie, why men have affairs etc, it's almost like he is warning you that this is his intention - nice partner to have.

Can't he do what most men do and make use of his fucken hand if he is so desperate???

Here's another thought, maybe if he helped you more with your children, you'd be less exhausted?

Equally, what evidence that he doesn't? Better that he does want to have sex with her than not, right? You're getting into semantics, Offred, and neither of us know the detail. I'm just suggesting that there's a problem for both of them here, that left on its own will get progressively worse rather than better, so suggesting the OP sees it only from her perspective may not be provide a good outcome. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got. I just think if she looks for the good in it (rather than the clumsy and thoughtless delivery) they may be able to come to a solution together.

That's all.

BusyCee: so you don't think sex twice a month is enough to satisfy, really?

You also haven't noticed how the OPs partner is pressuring her, no? Do you think this is how most men behave cos I don't think it is.

I think we all agree that a healthy sex life is good for both partners, of course it is, mentally and physically but read again what he is saying to her, doesn't sound to me that he is giving her any thought whatsoever.

You have said he "clearly loves" her but provided no support for that from her posts. You are incredibly naive if you believe wanting to have sex is a sign of love and no wanting to have sex is not always a good thing.

I think I've explained what there is in the op's posts to support my conclusions.

You seem to be encouraging her to see her dh's behaviour as a clumsy expression of love. I think that is highly unlikely.

Yes! I get that he's being clumsy and thoughtless. I get it. And that being pressured and living with a moody git is hardly conducive to swinging off the chandeliers in a state of orgasmic bliss. I just don't think that militantly stating its his problem is the answer - it just perpetuates the problem rather than helping the OP find a solution that works for both parties.

Thank you to everyone that has posted here, it is very helpful and interesting for me to see the different perspectives of this.

BusyCee, I do agree that is important to keep the 'adult part' of our relationship alive and have often suggested that a part of the problem may be the fact that since having our DD's, romance seems to have left the relationship. It is difficult for us to make time for ourselves as we don not have any family close by to help with babysitting so that we can make time to go on dates etc. Also, finances are tough at the moment so, paying for childcare is out of the question.

OffRed, you are also probably right that the problem runs deeper now than just tiredness from looking after the DC's. The more he nags me about this and gets cross and moody, the less I feel like it as it starts to feel like just another demand on me rather than a pleasurable shared experience.

By sheer misfortune, the few times we have had the house to ourselves for a couple of days (when DC's are staying with relatives during school hols etc), I have started my period and the thing that angers me the most, is that during these occasions he complains as if it is more of an inconvenience to him than me!!!

I do want to sort out these problems and live in hope that as the children grow up and sleep better, things will return to normal however, I can't help but fear that after everything that has been said and all the rows about it, this will continue for deeper routed reasons than just exhaustion...

Well, Offred,that's your POV. I'd rather look for the positive and try to help the OP take action that helps to improve her relationship with a man she says she loves. Even if he could do with some lessons in effective communication & negotiations with his missus...

The problem runs deeper now than just tiredness from looking after the DC's. The more he nags me about this and gets cross and moody, the less I feel like it as it starts to feel like just another demand on me rather than a pleasurable shared experience.

Any chance you could tell him this in such a way that he takes it on board?

Jan45 - it is good to know that twice a month doesn't seem completely unreasonable! Thank you!

Also, I know I have said that when it does happen, I feel under duress and whilst this is true, I do still make a big effort and try not to act as an unwilling partner (even when in truth I am silently hoping it doesn't take too long so I don't lose too much sleep)...

He does love me and tells me that it is a good thing that after all this time, he is still fiercely attracted to me but, I do feel that clumsy statements like 'this is why husbands cheat on their wives' are actually thinly veiled threats... Which in turn, has the opposite effect to rediscovering intimacy!

Excuse me if I am missing the point, and I agree with everybody who says he's harassing you and doing nothing to increase your desire to have see with him, but...I actually think once or twice a month is pretty good going!

Funny I can recognise so much where I was a few years ago in your posts.
I was feeling very tired with the dcs, DH was away most of the week, leaving me alone with the dcs.
I just didn't want sex. I was too tired.
On the other hand, DH was up for it and was showing it in a clumsy way, such as gropping and I started to ear the times he was coming close because it meant he wanted sex and not an nice cuddle.
I remember feeling guilty and like I HAD to have sex with him because you need that for a healthy marriage and do forcing myself to do so. I actually remember counting how many times we had sex each month, at least once, maybe twice but very rare. thread on MN about women who were advised to leave a sexless marriage didn't help tbh

In retrospect (what I/we did wasn't really be best way to go about it) , I wish we had done the following:

• make sure we had sex at a time when I wasn't too tired, eg early evening just after the dcs had gone to bed or in the am
• share the load re HW etc better. In particular, I really needed him to take responsibility for stuff rather than relying on me to sort things out (easy when he was away so much)
• have some time off myself. Which could have been me having a nap on the Saturday pm
• have some adult time together with no expectation of sex
• stop any heavy pressure for you to have sex. If anything te pressure is on him to help you as much as possible so you aren't as tired.
• nit forcing myself to have sex I didn't want to. Things actually got better when I did so. Yes we had a drought. And yes it was hard but at least I had stopped resenting having sex with him which was really necessary.

Btw, if he has issue with insomnia, I can understand why he is not going to bed early.
Otherwise, you can't say at her same time you are tired and go to bed at midnight.
If he was REALLY tired, he would've in bed early and would be extra careful that he is not missing on some sleep. As it is I think he maybe tired because of his sleep habit. But he is not EXHAUSTED which what you are talking about.

Oh please, this woman is not being sexually abused for crying out loud. Only people with no true understanding of abuse would describe being pestered for sex as freaking abuse!!! This makes me so cross.

OP - it's normal for your husband to want to have sex with you, and having sex with your partner is a healthy part of a relationship. Yes, you're exhausted and life gets in the way, but don't expect to be able to keep rejecting him indefinitely. It will have a bad effect on your marriage. You can't take your relationship for granted and work on everything else in your life - your relationship needs work too.

I'm not saying you have to have sex more often, but you do have to stop looking on him as some kind of enemy sex monster trying to get in the way of your sleep all the time. He's your husband and he's a physical, sexual being who wants to be intimate with his wife. It's not a bad thing - and the jibes and silly 'need to get laid' comments are his cackhanded man way of trying to deal with a situation that is truly difficult for him.

FMS: you sound lovely and very intelligent, he doesn't.

Sex twice a month with two toddlers is pretty good going by anyone's standards.

He's far from being deprived so don't let him bully you anymore.

it's a sad state of affairs if the father of your two children can't cut you a bit of slack, esp with a bad sleeper etc, he's being incredibly selfish.

Now this doesn't solve the problem no so if I was you I'd be completely honest with him, he needs to compromise, not you!

You are not a machine, not do you owe him anything and also, he perhaps need to make an effort towards you in order to enable you to firstly, have a rest and secondly romance you a bit.

Really you think knowingly having sex with someone who doesn't want it isn't abuse? Touching them while they are sleeping? threatening to have an affair? sulking? What is sexually abusive behaviour then?

And yes, normal and healthy to want sex, not normal to pressure, coerce and bully it out of someone.

Well said Offred, spot on, it makes you wonder if perhaps the OPs husband likes to get his own way most of the time.

youvegotmail that sort of post is exactly the reason why I put up for years with having sex with DH when I didn't want to. The idea that I was rejecting him, the father of my dcs, the one I got married to. How on earth could I do that?

But the thing is, this is NOT the only thing going on there. The OP is exhausted,not just tired. Why is that? Why is he DH not as tired as her? Maybe, just maybe because he using pulling his weight at home re the dcs and HW? Or maybe because for one reason if another, the OP needs rest atm but can't get any? Just for that, isn't acting like a selfish person that doesn't care how tired/exhausted his partner is?

And how us it then ok to pester for sex? Be grumpy. And difficult to live with. Sex is NOT an essential need like food, water or air. Sex helps people reconnecting but it isn't the only way to do so. And when you are at the point where you are forcing yourself to have sex just to keep him quiet, then 'just having sex and making an effort' isn't the answer to the problem.

Because you what the OP is already doing exactly what you are saying and it isn't working.

If you are exhausted then you aren't going to want sex.

If he isn't helping with the things that make you exhausted eg getting up at night with DCs, then you will be resentful, and perhaps, if he is a grumpy git, you repress this rather than discuss it to try to find a solution. Also if he has 'insomnia' you feel you can't expect much from him so this will add to the resentment and you will feel it would be unfair to voice this resentment as it apparently isn't his fault.

If you are resentful you won't want sex with him.

Insomnia keeps you awake it doesn't render you powerless to help with stuff. He needs to pull his weight and see to DCs in the night or do half of that. Also watching tv late at night is a nono for insomniacs as it is not restful so we can assume he isn't doing much to fix it.

Youvegotmail posts like yours always make me wonder what kind of shit people are putting up with on a daily basis. "Only" having sex twice a month is not a "truly difficult situation." What is a difficult situation is having small children, being exhausted, and having a partner who instead of trying to ease the burden bullies you for not giving him the sex he feels entitled to.

Pestering for sex is abuse. Trying it on, being rebuffed, being hurt and frustrated but accepting that you don't have a right to sex is not abuse. Telling your wife that this is why men have affairs and this is why you are grumpy IS abuse. Normal, loving men don't do that. They may be well and truly upset at first, and pissed off after a while, but they don't take it out on others by shouting and creating an unpleasant atmosphere.

I have a theory that only full-on exhaustion affects libido. General tiredness doesn't, as evidenced by the fact that even knackered people get very horny. The reason we blame tiredness is because it's actually a tiredness of the mind, rather than the body. What's been lost is not physical energy but mental motivation. When your identity as an individual have been overriden by your obligations as a mother and household manager, it's impossible to see yourself as a desirable sexual being, and unless you can do that, you won't feel remotely aroused. That's why men who pull their weight around the house, who treat their partners with respect and encourage them to pursue their own interests, generally have a lot more sex than those who don't.

Honestly if my husband said this to me I would just tell him to stop being such an arsehole.

LEM - help with the dc - Did you mean take care of his own children?

It has been proved that women whose partners don't do their share of house/family stuff, go off sex with them.

Hardly surprising, really, since being treated like a domestic appliance rarely makes a woman feel wanted.

Keeping your sleep-deprived domestic appliance awake for yet another hour, while you give her a clumsy & groping 'massage', is guaranteed NOT to get it her in the mood.

Verbally harassing her/it for sex, on top of everything else, is likewise guaranteed to fail. This lovely man is also trying emotional blackmail!

I cannot see any evidence that he loves or cares about OP. This is nothing more than a demonstration of how he sees her - as a household utility with fuck holes

Rather you than me, funny :( But, never mind, eh, put a pretty ribbon in your hair and tinkle with melodious laughter when he threatens to go elsewhere.

Then helpfully offer to pack a bag for him to take elsewhere.

Now I've got that off my chest, I want to make one serious and overriding point to our posters from the 1950s. If funny felt even remotely attracted to her husband at present, none of this would be happening, because the pair of them would be diving off down the garden shed for a passionate quickie whenever they got a spare four minutes.

She doesn't feel like it because HE's the only one who gets any spare time, and that's because he takes her for granted and abuses her as a domestic service.

Instead of "giving her a massage" he should be giving the kids a bath and giving the downstairs a hoovering. Instead of buying her "a romantic dinner" out, he should be cooking for his family. Do you see? Does this message reach back 60 years in time??