Just need some opinions on whether this is normal?

[funnymummyspeaks]

My DH and I have been together a long time and have two DD's. Our youngest is under 3 and has never been a good sleeper and as a result I am constantly tired (DH is too but refuses to admit it and stays up late every night watching tv). I have also recently returned to working FT which I am also finding exhausting. To cut a long story short, my libido has taken a nose dive ever since DD2 was born and DH likes to moan about this (alot). We probably only ever get down to it once or twice a month at the moment and generally that is when I feel under duress to perform as I hear lots of little digs about how hard this is on him. I have been told (apparently as a joke ) a few times that 'this is why men cheat on their wives, and he regularly accuses me of rejecting him or not fancying him instead of just understanding that I am extremely tired and just want to relax/sleep when I am home from work and the kids are asleep. It has also been known to cause rows when he will be sulky all day without telling me why and then eventually blow up that it is because he has needs and is not 'getting laid' enough! Last night, I was falling asleep on the sofa because I was so exhausted and when we went to bed I was ready to crash out. He decides to start watching a programme and at the same time starts attempting to get things going. I have to admit that because I was so tired, I completely ignored his advances and in actual fact, rather than getting me going, he actually irritated me as I felt it was extremely selfish of him to ignore my tiredness and try to stop me from sleeping in order to satisfy his needs. Anyway, fast forward to this morning when he was in a terrible mood and was snapping at me and generally being unpleasant (he is not a morning person), I told him that he needs to try to be less grumpy in the morning because it is not fair on the rest of the family and once again had it thrown at me: 'if I got laid more I wouldn't be this grumpy'. Writing this all down I realise it doesn't sound very good but, I do love him, find him attractive and he is my best friend as well as husband and I don't want to lose him.... I am simply tired and all this pressure does nothing to help the return of my libido! AIBU or is he? Am I alone in this?

And I'm not ashamed to say that I don't want to encourage "a repaired relationship" with someone who is being sexually abusive. The relationship should only be repaired if he stops that for good... Which is unlikely really but the reason I have not said LTB because it is clear the op would like to work things out.

Ultimately I was raped btw when I finally and resolutely refused sex which is not what I am saying will happen btw but it isn't a long way away from what is happening to the op already.

Do posters whose solution to these dilemmas is "you just need to talk to him" really think that women haven't already tried that already, repeatedly, to no avail ?

that by the time they ask for advice here, they are at the rank end of "rational discussion" and have had their boundaries trampled on time and time again

OP described what I am reading as an escalation recently, where her partner woke her up with unwanted and unwelcome sexual advances when she was sleeping. Knowing that she is exhausted, but did it anyway. Whatever label you want to give that behaviour it is hugely inappropriate, and demonstrates not "normal desire for his wife" but pure and unadulterated disrespect

his threats should be taken seriously, let him go find the sex he "deserves" elsewhere. Nobody would threaten me with that, and still expect to stay ina relationship with me

OP, you are selling yourself short. Not having sex with your husband may end your marriage. Having sex you don't want with him will end it anyway, but that one will be death by a thousand cuts. Send him on his way, until he can respect you.

Having DC and working fulltime is hard and I understand that you need your sleep. It would be awful if this issue caused your marriage to break down. I agree with posters who say that people should try to keep their sex life alive. Couples are not just friends and IMO having an intimate relationship strenthens the partnership. Obviously there are times when people cannot have sex but as posters have said keeping the lines of communication open is crucial. If I was in a relationship and was only having sex twice a month I would be extremely upset. If the reason was because the other person was tired and there was no room for compromise I would consider leaving.

I think the OP's husband is being a dick they way he is going about it but I think it is likely that all he wants is to be intimate with his wife which I see as a perfectly normal desire. It seems to me that the battle lines have been drawn because they haven't communicated with one another. They could be intimate with one another without having penetrative sex. I also think its just too predictable to paint the man as a sex pest and the woman as some innocent who is at risk of being violated.

Some poster may as well have said the usual LTB line. Youve fallen into a viscious circle a lot of couples experience with small children.
He is telling you how he is feeling rejected and that probably explains why he is acting desperate. His feelings are valid but he is going about it completely the wrong way.

He needs to completely stop pressurising you for sex because it doesn't help anyone and you need to maybe initiate sex a bit more to deal with why he feels rejected.

Sort out between you practicalities of why you are tired all the time.

There is nothing intimate about having sex you don't want. Seriously, this is not normal, he is not 'desperate' he is entitled, he is already having sex twice a month it is not like he is not getting any. Encouraging the op to initiate sex she doesn't want will not help. The problem is not a lack of sex from her side but a lack of empathy, concern and love from his.

Totally agree that just having sex in this situation is death of the relationship, by a thousand cuts. It will absolutely kill any love or attraction if it continues.

And he is being a sex pest, no-one is labelling him a sex pest, he is being one.

I wouldn't say his feelings are reasonable either because they are not about wanting intimacy or loving his wife, they are about feeling entitled to sex immaterial of how his wife feels and that is where it crosses into abuse. If it was about love and intimacy his behaviour would be totally different.

So how many times a month should the OP be having sex she doesn't want in order to keep him happy? How much is 'enough'?

Both the OP and her DH are completely reasonable in how they feel. Actually no feeling is ever unreasonable.

What IS unreasonable is to ignore your partner's feelings.

So DH is saying 'I feel rejected when you don't want to have sex with me. We need to have sex more often'
results in
the OP having sex with him even though she doesn't feel like this.

The OP is saying 'I am exhausted. I don't want sex at the moment, just sleep'
results in
her DH being grumpy because they don't have sex often enough in his view, touching her when she is asleep etc...

Now tell me who is listening to his/her partner and who is unreasonable here?

My issue is again is to put all the responsibility onto the OP to improve things as if it was somehow her fault that they don't have sex anymore. As if she just had 'gone out of the habit' and 'just need to make a bit of an effort, because you know you might actually enjoy it if you stop looking at him as a less than nothing'.
And what her DH? Does he need to do anything at all offred? How many times does she need to make the effort to explain to him and him not listening before she can throw the towel and say 'that's enough'?
Talking is fine. It is necessary. And it works. When the other partner is ready to listen and made amendments.
When is the DH going to make the same sort of efforts the OP is already doing?

funny
I am not sure if all these 'theoretical' discussions are of any help to you.

I wanted to add, on the top of the few things I have highlighted before

• try and see the bigger picture. What else is going on here? What are you getting resentful about? I am sure it's not just a sex issue but there are many more problems in the background.
• Don't look at the sex issue as an issue on its own. It is a symptoms of a much bigger issue within your relationship. Trying to solve the sex issue wo looking at what else is going on is NOT going to work
• Do NOT feel fully responsible for the situation. And I would say that for almost any relationship issue. When this happens, there is also a breakdown of communication and I'll bet that your DH has at least as much responsibility than you in the process.
• try and have sex with your DH if you wish but only if you really feel like it. Having sex with H out of duty is best way to kill anything that might be left between you.

• And perhaps more importantly, if you read the posts on this thread, you might come out with the impression that there is actually little you can do. Now, in my experience, you CAN change things. Your DH will need a really big wake up call. And you will need to dig deep to understand what is going on and what you could both do better (HW sharing, tiredness, intimacy etc etc), what you could both do to improve things.

Good luck!

Sorry previous comment was for youvegotmail not Offred

Jesus Christ - what in the OP is: "an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim."

He has said a couple of times that he can see why men have affairs, which is not a particularly appropriate thing to say - he says he was joking. What he was probably trying to do was get across to the OP how rejected he is feeling.

Some of you need to get a grip and find an appropriate thread to sort out your issues on.

This is not sexual abuse. He did not try to have sex with her when she was asleep, he was trying to instigate intimacy when they were on the sofa together in the evening. Yes, she got annoyed because she was tired, but he wasn't doing anything wrong. He didn't push the issue when she said no again, he just felt very rejected - again. She didn't even say to him that she felt tired and it wasn't the right time, she basically just ignored him, which I'm not surprised he found hurtful.

Must he never try to instigate intimacy with his wife!?! Don't be so silly. Sex may not be a need like eating or drinking, but it is a primal urge and it is also an important part of a healthy relationship. He's not doing anything wrong in wanting more sex with his wife. He is handling it wrong as there is nothing less sexy than nagging and whining.

People don't always post on here when they are desperate and have tried everything. Sometimes they post on a whim, sometimes they post looking for validation for their POV before trying anything, sometimes they just want to let off steam. It's entirely possible that the OP hasn't properly discussed the issue with her husband and is in a negative pattern of not having sex, not wanting sex and rejecting her partner except for the odd time when she does it because it'll shut him up for a bit. Perhaps they need some therapy. Perhaps they need some more time together. Perhaps she needs to ask for more help.

What she doesn't need is to be told that he's a sexual abuser, which he isn't, and that the relationship isn't worth repairing. You don't know ANYTHING about this man as a husband, father, person or friend. ALL you know is that he pesters his wife for sex and she doesn't want to have sex with him.

I do agree lady.

I've not said LTB but this behaviour of his is totally unacceptable and I'm not sure it is from feelings of loss about the relationship but feelings of entitlement about the op's body. That is something she needs to find out because it makes a massive difference to how fixable it is.

It is such a shame that the op has been forgotten in this thread. There are two issues here 1 the dh isnt contributing enough at home. 2. The pushing for sex. They are connected because the op is knackered. Also there is a fine line between seduction and pestering. Not such a thin one between grumpiness and comments.

The fact remains that both the op and her dh will benefit from a fulfilling sex life. The key is to talk and listen.

all this talk of abuse is not helpful in this instance. None of us know what is going on but the op came looking gor advice on how to yurn yhings around.

Again mail. There is nothing intimate about this behaviour. It is nothing to do with intimacy and entirely about penetrative sex. If it was about intimacy he would be behaving completely differently.

Turn things

And I totally disagree that talking about abuse is unhelpful. Too many people are motivated to make excuses for abusive behaviour in order to maintain a marriage or LTR IMHO.

If a marriage is to move past abusive behaviour it has to be called out and dealt with and totally stopped.

OP - I hope you find a way to talk to your husband, as this is a small (non abusive) issue that can be moved past with a bit of effort from both of you. It's also really normal.

Offred - I think you should think about why you feel the need to post several times in a row on something that you clearly don't really know much about - making up details that didn't exist in the OP and deciding from a few lines of text that you know the DH's character and motivations. Perhaps you need to start a couple more threads of your own.

As we've been well and truly told off in another thread about not offering constructive advice.

Here is what made me want more sex with my husband.

We both work full time, long hours, his hours slightly longer than mine. I do all the cooking/meal planning. But my husband, when he realised how truly exhausted I was finding doing everything. He started washing up, and he started putting a load of washing on a couple of times a week. That's it. That was all he had to do and suddenly I had a bit more energy for sex.

So OP, if he's not the entitled manipulative idiot that we have painted him out to be, then suggest a couple of domestic jobs that he can take over to give you a bit less to think about, to help you get some energy back, ask him to stop using methods from the Steptoe & Son School of Seduction, and see if things improve.

But if he isn't willing to help out in the house, and refuses to acknowledge that intimacy is about more than a bit of letching, then go back and read the thread.

I know plenty about it mail. Plenty as I've said. I would like to point out that I am commenting on the h's behaviour. You have been consistently making excuses for him and saying he clearly loves her, he just wants intimacy, he just feels rejected without saying what this view is based on out of the behaviour actually described. I think I have been very clear in explaining what my interpretation is based on and also that it is necessary to find out why he is behaving in this totally and massively unacceptable way if you want to know whether it can be fixed.

And I do feel sad for you that you seem to have such a warped view of love, men and sex.

Actually, I never said he loves her and yes it is clear that he wants intimacy - and the OP is rejecting him, however you dress it up and however good her reasons are. This is a couple in a pretty normal situation that need some support and advice - not someone with a massive chip on their shoulder coming in to throw their warped slant on the relationship.

Don't worry about feeling sad for me - I'm confident that my views on men, love and sex are normal and healthy. You don't know me either - yet there you go projecting again based on your own problems.

Now go ahead and have the last word, for the sake of your apparent issues (or probably several in a row, as is your posting style! )

On what basis is it clear he wants intimacy?

He seems to want sex, they aren't the same.

I do think it is important you clarify what in the op's posts gives the impression that he wants intimacy.

I think he is pathetic, immature and borderline abusive.

DH agrees.