Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

that'srant away.sounds like you needed it. hopeholiday goes ok. travel is stressful enough without the added burden of a big orange knob of entitlement. My FW used to manoeuvre me in to organising everything too so it could be my fault.

It is hard to leave especially when the nature of abuse is such that it makes you uncertain all the time. and the one person you should be able to talk to is the one who is harming you. have not met person on this thread where i did not think ltb was the right solution /the end game and the only answer but given that it does involve blowing your life apart it is best done from a position of as much strength as you can manage. to make sure it Succeeds.

I feel like that was the bleakest thing I ever posted. It seems such a waste.

Mink thanks for the image if he gets into a big rant about taxi/airport/car/hotel I am going to imagine a big orange knob ranting away! We will get through this and hopefully have a nice time I am coping by being totally attentive to him and when he says 'jump' I quickly come back with 'how high?' and it seems to work..

Thank you everyone. I understand people on the other thread meant well but still . . . difficult to read . Might stay over on this thread rather than flicking, find the advice much more useful and insightful. Are there ever cases when men are mildly EA? My H doesn't really blame me for stuff, and he doesn't seem to play mind games quite like some of the other posts I've read on here. He is very PA however, loves the play the victim, always feels hard done by, will argue black is white till I feel crazy etc but he doesn't do anything physically intimidating really. Not anymore anyway - at least not for the last 8 years maybe? It's almost as though the physical intimidation (trashing my room, breaking my things, punching holes in doors/walls, fighting with other men who talk to me and throwing bottles at me once on my birthday) has morphed into a more covert form of aggression. Although he has never hit me, and these incidences happened a long time ago, I am still very aware of his anger.

Despite all this I still feel strong most of the time. I am happy to challenge his behaviour and he is more engaged and aware of his own behaviour than I've ever seen before thanks to the therapy he's having. We do have equality in most respects (although I think it is clear he has a slight male superiority issues) and he is very supportive of me and my achievements.

I know it probably sounds as though I am defending him. I am to some extent. Oh dear this is soooo confusing! Suppose I just wanted to give people a clearer view of the situation I am in - which luckily does not sound half as bad as your fw's (I love this acronym!).

So glad I joined this thread

kirsty nearly everyone here has at some point said my FW is not as bad as anyone else's. not to make FW seem better but to make what they have been seem less serious. because when you see it from the outside looking in, it seems much worse than from the inside looking out. so you need to imagine if rather than you saying my FW does hits, it was your best friend saying my dh does this- what would you say to them. we will put up with a lot more for ourselves than we would want to watch someone we loved go through. if that makes any sense.

that said my FW was not that bad he is an out and out twunt not mistaking. he is entitled, he is abusive. he is most definitely a knob. and I thank my lucky stars I got rid and found this thread. but I am still glad that he was not PA (much) or SA. that does not mean I think he is OK. I don't. I am just relieved because this thread has opened my eyes and I know how much worse it can be. and how much more unflushable some FWs are than others.

but that is the thing, they are good at working out what you can stand. that is why he is no longer PA kirsty he does not have to throw things anymore. the anger and the violence was to make you afraid and you are still afraid so there is no need to do it any more. that is how controlled and deliberate his behaviour is. he can turn it on and off depending on what he needs to do to keep you under control.

YY to Minks post there Kirsty. Appreciate you are still in the early days but try not to compare your FW to anybody else's - the fact that he makes you unhappy should be enough.

My FW has been PA, FA, EA and I'm starting to think possibly SA aswell (although I can't compute that bit in my head). And there are times when reading other posts that I think "Fw doesn't do that", then I have to remind myself that it doesn't matter. Hope that makes sense.

And I totally understand what you mean about thinking others on your thread could be portraying you as a bad mum. Most of the time I worry myself to death about how FW (whether I'm with him or not) is fucking up my beautiful little DD and how I should never have inflicted life upon her in the first place. It's a hard thing to hear others say - but what's important is how you're trying to make life better for the DC in the future.

Hello again, I am still reading.
I just wanted to pipe up because kirsty you have taken a few words right out of my mouth. I have been wonder

This bloody ph

Haha this bloody phone always posts too soon! Sorry, I always litter threads with half sentences!

I'd been wondering about mild or borderline EA as there seems to be a lot my FW doesn't do. But I've been writing everything I can remember down. Just to validate myself really.

Nice to see other people having same thought processes

It does not matter how mild or how borderline. they are very unlikely to change. and if they make you happy you are not obliged to stay with them just because they are not as bad as other people's horrific husbands.

Also by their very nature they attempt to instil you a system of believes that matches their own. i.e. they will say things like, isn't it terrible he is so jealous, or he hits his wife i would never do that. for example my FW would never have sex with someone who did not want to have sex with him. he would say that people who do are terrible. that is one of his lines he will not cross. whereas a FW who would cross that line will tell his dp that it is his right and her duty and that she is being unfair to him by refusing/not wanting him.

but he will quite happily abandon his children for weeks on end to teach me a lesson whereas some FWs would think that was wrong.

That's true mink, I think my FW would actually consider himself very moral.

I am very confused generally at the moment, he has been ridiculously nice for about six weeks now. Ocasionally the cracks show, then the veneer goes straight back in place. I keep wondering if I have imagined the last two years of criticism, disrespect and meanness.

all part of a bigger plan I assume!

I've been there too, thinking that FW is mildly EA. Well, he is really; he never does anything terrible, but then he's never had to because I've been easily downtrodden and worn down. My self-esteem has wilted over the years, just with "helpful" criticism, casual indifference and never having a moment to myself through overwork raising small children singlehandedly. He didn't need to hit, or swear. (That's his line, actually - swearing is a sign of intellectual weakness!)

Although having said that, I still shuddered with recognition when reading up about SA. Still the very mild stuff, but I didn't expect to see him there at all. So I get that sometimes you just don't see it's wrong because it's normal to you.

It's also hard to believe somebody is doing anything so wrong when that somebody is so personality disordered that they genuinely believe that they are only capable of good thoughts and actions. And that if only everyone would listen to them, the world would be a better place. How could I have believed that (mostly) for so long? I have more sympathy for people who get caught up in cults now...

Charlotte, had to post briefly just to say - you are doing what I am doing, and minimising. SA doesn't happen at all in normal relationships. Sorry you have experienced that too. Mild or not, it's like saying mild torture or extreme torture. Torture is torture, and still shouldn't happen. Your FW isn't mildly EA - he's EA, pure and simple, and has been staunchly abusing you for years. Just basing it on how he's behaved since you've told him it's over illuminates how skewed and self-absorbed his thinking it.

Not long now sweetie. Hold tight.

Good point re cults Charlotte, that gave me pause for thought. Hmmmm

I am really struggling with coping right now. DC had surgery this week, so far so good. They survived surgery and no. complications. They are in terrible pain though, despite every pain killer imaginable being used. This was expected but is still traumatic to experience and witness.
We are hundreds of miles from home in an inexpensive hotel. H told me about the affair that wasn't over for 8 months after I thought it was, and says he is committed to working on our marriage.
In all honesty I can't fault his new behaviour, he is patient, goes out of his way to make sure I know where he is a what he's doing. Answers questions a out OW , blames himself and his selfishness for affair, is open with his mobile and other things I can't think of ow.
But that trust is shattered. It's only been 8 weeks, for a start. Also I'm aware he could be doing all this and still pulling the wool over my eyes. He has been abusive in this marriage and although he now appears to recognise that and have changed, dont know if I can trust that either.
My own thoughts are driving me crazy and with DC so ill I am finding coping with everything so hard.
My therapist has advices me to wait until DC is on the road to recovery, should know this in a couple of weeks, then I'll have the emotional energy to properly address what I want to do about marriage. She is wary of me having to cope with too much at once and I think she is probably right.
But how do I get there from here? How do I shut my mind up? I shouldn't be stressing about my marriage and future when my DC is so ill.
I feel like I can hardly go on, yet I have to. I am so lonely, you bunch of strangers are all I have to talk to about this. Well, also an expensive therapist and H. Having been isolated for years. Although H has stopped doing that Snd now encouraged me to make friends I seem to hs e lost the knack. Also I cZnt make friends and dump all this misery on them.
I really am at the lowest of the low, emotionally. Help.

pearl I am glad the op went well. you are under enormous strain just now. perhaps if anything you are more not less likely to be thinking about your marriage as a coping mechanism to take your mind of dcs pain.
Just remember you are not obliged to forgive him. he crossedwhat for a lot of people is a line beyond which there is no return. it is up to you if you forgive him not him. And that is without the EA. again just because he appears to have changed you are not obliged to get over that either.

But right now you have to get through the next few weeks. one step at a time. you can lean on this thread and we will give what support we can.

Do you have family? Or other dc?
It must be hard to find the time for friends or anyone else when you are being there for dc so don't beat yourself up that you hAve not rekindled friendships yet.

((hugs)) are there perhaps other parents at the hospital you might be able to strike up a conversation with for some mutual support?

Hang in there pearl just a little longer. wishing dc all the best.

mink is right, pearl, just because someone has changed does not mean you are suddenly able to cope with the way they treated you. At the moment, you need to stay with H because of dc, you can't afford two rooms and your therapist is right, you have enough to cope with.

But none of this means you have to deal with your r/s with your H or anything else, you are there for dc, so do not feel pressured to discuss or resolve issues now, you cannot. Get it out on here, we are here, until you are in a better place with dc, and after that too.

Friends, I think that will take time, but is not impossible. But don't add it as another pressure. It sounds like you need to find yourself again, and new friends will be part of that. You can tell people as much or as little as you like about your situation, that is up to you. mink makes a good suggestion about other parents at the hospital. What you feel up to.

Wishing you and dc all the best

Sorry, the 'you can't afford two rooms' was not meant to be judgemental, just pragmatic!

Hey pearl so so glad to hear the op went well, but it must be impossibly hard to see DC in pain. Can't even imagine it. Sending you and DC strength, love and support.
I think you just have to exist in the marriage for now. No commitments, no decisions, no real engagement. Just push on, and lean on each other as much or as little as you want. Use all your resources for support, both in RL, at the hospital and on here.

(((hugs))) pearl

pearl

Sounds so hard, agree with everything the others have said and also the chatting to other parents at the hospital. As you know from this board, it helps so much when you feel you are around people in similar situations.

Forget about FW for now, just use him for the coffee run

Much love to you Pearl, glad to hear the op went well. Agree with comments above that you need to focus on DC and yourself right now, forget about your relationship in the wider sense of what it means long-term. One thing at a time, ok?

If you're struggling with RL support, can we help here? Even just for a place to vent to. Much love (((hugs)))

Hmmmm bad day today.

Before he left for work, FW tried to have sex and I made an excuse. He went all silent and didn't speak to me until he went out.

Then he went into my handbag to look for keys and found my secret packet of cigarettes. I secretly have a cigarette when DH isn't here and DD has gone to bed.

He said we would talk about it later and now I feel like a naughty schoolgirl and I am dreading later. I dont really have a leg to stand on with this one!

Did he look in your handbag with your permission?

Going into some ones handbag without asking crime of greater seriousness the smoking. smoking your choice, your body. some one else's handbag invasion of their privacy.

Has he no shame a handbag is sacred!!