Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Could I ask a couple of questions please?

One - is it appropriate to contact women's aid if I believe I am in a relationship where I can see the signs of EA but believe them to be fairly mild? (Saying this, it is somewhat relentless and I think some of my beliefs about him being 'not that bad' are very much HIS opinions since they seem to fade away when he isn't around to reinforce them).

Two - is it necessary/helpful to see a solicitor when we own neither our house nor any savings?

What I'm really looking for is assistance with finding the strength to end it when I know that he will be devastated and that family may not be supportive. I also don't know how to do it; does there just come a moment when it's the right time? I don't think it would be good to do it before Christmas as it seems like this would make things very difficult for everyone.

badseed Yes it is appropriate to contact WA. EA is relentless it wears you down, you normalise and minimise it. Talking out with WA will help you see what your options are and also help validate your feelings. I have heard the Freedom program is helpful. Also get a copy of Lundy. Also google the (is it twelve) types of abuser. sometimes identifying your blend helps. they are all different and yet strangely all the same as if they were all cut with the same wonky mold and then sent to the same FW college. So yours is bound to be in there somewhere.

I didn't/haven't seen a solicitor. not sure whether that is good or bad. it depends on what you need. e.g. if you need to agree contact for dcs- family mediation may be all you require. for maintenance CSA. you might need a sol if e.g. you wanted non harrassment orders put in place. but it is not essential.

as for the right time, some people plan meticulously, others like me just decide spur of the moment that enough is enough. the more complex your situation the more planning you need I guess. but it always helps if you do some reading e.g. Lundy, take off any rose tint and have a reallly good hard look at exactly how entitled and controlling your FW is and detach before you go. the more you detach first the easier it is and the more likely you will be out for good. (but even if at first you don't succeed and many don't, try, and try again, most get there in the end).

tuzz that sounds pretty unbearable do contact WA. they can help. and keep posting. we can help you plan and we can listen if you need to vent or just to be heard.

fi glad to see you back.

jackie you sound positive. and he does that because he is a FW and that is what FWs do; try to convince you they hate you and then refuse to leave you alone. don't let him get you on the back foot. ignore, ignore, ignore some more. apart from anything else it annoys the hell out of them.

am away for a bit btw. much love, (((hugs))) to you all and strategically applied kitchen utensils to the FWs even though I know I will probably still be on MN even though I am away [sheepish face]

MrsMink that's great advice, thank you! Really helpful. Will let you know how I get on. He's gone away for work for the week; I sing around the house when he's not here and am generally more relaxed. Then he calls and is all nice even though I know within minutes of him getting back he'll be raising his voice, trying to get everyone under control, finding fault with how I've managed everything while he's been away. Every time.

mrsmink I have so far ignored and don't intend replying am just dreading that he might turn up t my door though. Can see that may be the next step. Agrrrrrr. Just WHAT is the MATTER with these FW?

On a brighter note I can honestly say I don't love him anymore

Right. Have contacted Women's Aid and explained the situation; spoken to kids' head teacher and a couple of friends who have affirmed this is abuse and unacceptable. Someone please tell me it's ok to do this over the phone because if he comes back this weekend I'm scared I'll relent

badseeds it's fine to do it however you want/need. Remember, there is no need to explain or justify yourself - "I'm not happy, and want out" or whatever variation suits. He may try to talk you out of it - don't engage by arguing the toss. And if you need to end the conversation, the phone is good because you can just end the call.

Thank you Silvery

Not doing it today but am going to spend time figuring out how NOT to automatically see things from his view/imagine how he'll react. Any book recommendations would be great as I can download to kindle. Thanks to all who have replied to me, huge help

badseed sadly don't think you can get Lundy for kindle. The links at the top may help though.
Are you planning on staying put? If so, contact the police on 101 and make them aware of the situation so they will come quickly if he kicks off.
Good luck and godspeed

silvery i am handing you the flag and whistle.

MrsMink yes, for now, but he wouldn't be violent for various reasons - it's all emotional and psychological *stops self from saying 'but it's not his fault/he does try/etc/etc'. But thank you. I hope I can help others on here as well once I've figured this out. I am going to tell him not to come back here for the moment - if he wants to see the kids he can stay at his mum's. I'm working up the courage to say it. I think he knows it's coming as last week when I started reading this thread something just clicked, and I was very detached this last weekend when he was here.

The kids' headteacher has told me DS told someone a while ago (when I wanted to end it but wasn't strong enough) that we had separated! I asked her to keep me informed if any other red flags are raised as I need to know. She told me to look after myself, not worry about the kids for now but just to get myself strong and sorted. She's been through a divorce herself, I knew she'd be supportive
I need help working out finances. I have a feeling he will accuse me of leaving him in the lurch financially. I'm going to ask Women's Aid for advice about that. Sorry for massive long post, thinking it through as I type!

Did it. Told him I don't feel the same any more and it's over. Wouldn't go into details and don't want to talk about it when he comes back. Please tell me my gut feeling for the last few years is right because I'm a little bit sad

Well done badseeds . I wish I could be as decisive as you.

STICK TO YOUR GUNS NOW It is normal to feel sad, even a lot sad. It means your hopes and dreams are over officially although in reality they have been over for a long time

Keep posting.

Thank you bounty! I have amazing friends who have basically said they'll drop everything to be with me if I need them. I'm floored by this. Currently flipping from happiness to sadness and trying to keep busy! He tried to talk to me about it later, I refused to engage, then he texted saying he hopes we can still be friends and I said that would be better and I'd speak to him tomorrow. My amazing friend has written a list of benefits I can claim and worked out what I'll end up with each month. Which since I can barely walk in a straight line is hugely helpful

I know I sound decisive but this has taken years of unhappiness before I got help for my MH problems, CBT, and started to have support from goo friends. Do you have anyone in RL you can talk about this with bounty? It has been a long hard journey for me and I have no idea how this is actually going to pan out!

Bad we haven't chatted before but I just wanted to say well done for having the strength to make a better life for yourself. I didn't talk to friends in RL at first when things were bad and my relationship was very short. Your friends sounds great to them.
Making that actual descion is liberating and it is sad your body is reacting correctly but it is the right thing to do.

Can I ask a question of those who have done some counselling? My mum has expressed some concern about some of the things that our counsellor has said.

My mum speaking:

^As a counsellor, even if you do form an opinion about what's happening you shouldn't let the person know your opinion but ask questions to help them explore their own thoughts and opinions, sometimes challenging them but not expressing your own thoughts. Once you express an opinion you are siding with one person or the other and the counsellor should remain neutral.

The counsellor should never use examples of themselves (or friends or family) or what they would do/have done in a situation as this may not be correct for the person they are seeing and the person may feel they are in the wrong if they acted differently. They are vulnerable to the counsellors opinion by the very nature of having sought help. Personal comments suggest that the client should have behaved in the way they would have done.^

Is she correct?

Bounty I think that sounds right and makes sense, think your mum is right.
Betterthanever thank you, yeah I'm
not surprised to be a bit dazed! Having a cuddle with DS, going to sort out finances tomorrow. Keep remembering I don't have to consider OH's rules etc for the house any more and it feels really good! Have done a lot of crying but feel sure of my reasons.

She's right bounty. A counsellor should also have regular supervision from a more senior counsellor to help them keep the right attitude, and to guard against getting drawn in personally - does yours have this?

Oh and way to go!! badseeds :)

bounty, I had a kind of CBT earlier this year and my counsellor was quite clearly eccentric. There were points where I felt that she was not as objective as I would have wished but too intrusive, other points where she challenged my thoughts and made me really unpick some of my attitudes. In general, I think she did help me through a difficult time.

The examples she gave were of behavioral patterns, rather than what i should do - thus, in discussion of my anxiety around certain things, she gave examples of how to avoid anxiety by being prepared based on some of her own experiences, what she had done; but then I also felt that she was trying to understand how I worked and respond to that. It was a dialogue, rather than her telling me how she had done it, therefore I should follow.

I did not do couples counselling. I could not face putting myself through it. I think if you are in an abusive relationship, you have/develop boundary issues which require individual counselling and the nature of abuse grinds your self-esteem down to nothing. By dint of the fact that the couples counsellor is focusing on both of you, he/she, even if they are objective, is giving your abuser as much weight in the discussion as you, but you actually need someone to help you.

I mean eccentric in a nice way. She and my solicitor in their different ways helped me to think again.

Silvery, thank you! Just keep randomly crying then justifying my reasons and repeat going to be hard when he has to come get his stuff etc. I have a feeling he'll be nice and I'll end up getting emotional. I'm going to struggle if he wants to be in the house and I don't want to be forced to go out if he wants to come and see the kids; am I within my rights to insist they go to his mum's for the moment? Until I feel more detached from the situation?

Bounty I didn't think to say, my CBT counsellor did refer to other clients occasionally in the respect of examples of images or techniques others had used that worked for them, and he did refer to his own life a bit but only again in context eg, saying I was coping well considering I had children as he didn't have any and would still find said situation hard. He was amazing, worked with my ADHD which I didn't realise was possible.

I've posted a few threads ago about my friend's OH being abusive to her, but under a different name, I do lurk from time to time too, but only to wish you all well.

Just posting to bounty, my friend actually saw a counsellor a while ago and he was very impartial and actually helped her see clearly. Interestingly her OH is actually a counsellor and didn't want her to go for counselling at all. Given that her OH is emotionally abusive, with a bit of intimidation and looking like financial abuse thrown in too, I'd hate to think what he'd be like as a counsellor.

So if you think your counsellor isn't right for you, then trust your gut feeling.

Also badseeds, well done x

We are germ central here. Nasty cough/cold for both DD and me but struggling through.

Had a conversation with FW the other evening about getting a new front door. I mentioned that I didn't want a pale colour like the one we had in our previous house as I was forever washing it. He said he used to wash it too and I laughed (as he hadn't). Cue a 30 second tirade where I was called a bitch, a liar and accused of rewriting history. I was a bit I admit. FW.

Your mum is right Bounty. When I had my counselling - the counsellor spent most of the time telling me 'that must be really hard for you' and 'you're doing so well to keep going', which kept making me blub as I'm really not used to anybody telling me that I'm doing well. She pushed me when necessary but was gentle and sympathetic.

Couples counselling was a whole different kettle of fish. The Relate counsellor told me I was defensive, backed FW up most of the time and I'll never forget the conversation they had about my 'monthlies' affecting my mood - right in front of me, without involving me in the conversation. Not a good counsellor.

If your counsellor is doing the opposite to what your mum says they should - perhaps you need to look elsewhere?

And well done badseeds, you do work quick! Puts me to shame. Keep it up, it will get easier I'm sure!

I am broken today. Childminder has gone into the hospital, as she has a chest infection. Called fw to ask if he could step in, and he has been more than a fuckwit to me...says he has plans, 'and he is going to be selfish for once' . Then proceeded to call me an abuser, and domestically violent, and the only reason why he doesn't call to speak to DD is because of me. I then said that I don't think I was abusive, I just reacted and I only ever lashed out at him when I wanted him to get away from me or out the house' and he wasn't having any of it. He then said he does not want to talk to me anymore, if I don't think I abused him, and get off his f'ing phone'.

I am starting to get really scared, I have no other support network and I am here all by myself, the ex sister in law has showed her true colours and I am trying my best. He hates me, he doesn't like me at all...and I am confused. People like me in real life, they say I am warm hearted but he thinks I am a monster. What if I really have been the abuser? I am sitting here crying because I am stressing over childcare, and I am stressing about whether I am an abuser. He has blamed me for everything. On the phone he said ' I have to answer the phone to an abusive, domestically violent woman'.

Don't know what to do, should I just change my number. I don't want to talk to him anymore, because he is just so nasty to me. Can't afford a solicitor or anything like that.