Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

YY Bounty to rose tinted spectacles. Sometimes I can hardly remember why I left him. He is quite helpful though, never lets it be too long before he reminds me why I couldn't live with him any more

Good luck for wednesday. Hope it all goes OK.

Hello everyone, so sorry for barging in like this when I haven't even caught up on the thread yet, and have been away for ages. I have been so busy with uni, and I have some good news. Within a week of moving into my new house, I took my theory test (passed with flying colours), the following week I did my intensive driving lessons, and last Friday I took my driving test and passed first time, with only a few minors...so I felt on a high until today.

I have recently managed to do 7 days NC with the ex, but caved and called him today as there has been radio silence, and I don't really know what I was thinking...I just made a snap decision and before I knew it I was dialling his mobile number.

He went on to tell me it was 80/20 in my favour regarding the demise of the relationship, and that I am very abusive, and incredibly violent. He says the only reason why he doesn't call DD in the week to say Goodnight because I am the issue, and ' no wonder men piss off, because they have to deal with the ex girlfriends'. I basically said if he feels this way, then he needs to leave me and DD to just get on with it. He replied with ' Well you would like that wouldn't you? You could brush everything underneath the carpet, and everything would be all easy for you' I am confused. All I ever did was love this man, all I ever wanted was his love back. I admit I have lashed out at him several times but that was only because I wanted him to get out the house. I couldn't stand the way he was treating me sometimes, and it all got too much. He says I am just a ' head fuck'. He thinks he has treated me well. I feel like I just want to get a new number, and force myself to forget about him but I have to have contact for DD, but he just hurts me all the time.

Before you say it, I know I got what I deserved because I called. But it really hurts that I have to let go of this 'illusion' I once thought was the man I loved. I don't think he was ever there to begin with. My ex says he doesn't hate me, but he sounds like he doesn't like me at all. I just don't know what I did wrong. And I am sitting here crying again. He really believes I am the abuser.

You did nothing wrong, rose, nothing. You reacted to him is all. He is the one who is a head fuck.

It does hurt to let go of the illusion, although I can't quite figure out why. I suppose it leaves a gap, which can't be filled with a more accurate representation, because FWs are essentially unknowable.

quiet I spose. I am just thinking he has a shiny new life living in a new city with an actual job. My life just feels worse now.

bounty I have a shit list. I can't actually focus on reading it though. Even when I search my old posts here, it just won't go in my head. It really wasn't that bad.

rose well done on passing your driving test. I'm sorry to hear about your ex. Does he believe you're an abuser or does he want you to think you are? Or is he just above all criticism and everything everyone else's fault?

He thinks I have turned his sister against him, and I said I haven't. I just told her the truth, and that he is free to call her and say ' his version of events' but he wont, as he said ' there is no point' which I find quite telling really. I find myself going over things in my head, and asking myself if events really happened as I remembered it, because he is disgusted with my portrayal of events.

Oh and rose I forgot to say: Just Look at You Go :)

Thank you Silvery and Colin about my driving...I was over the moon. I am buying a cheap run around this week. The ex tried to sabotage my efforts to sort it all out often, and I know he resents the freedom it will offer me because he is 40 and still doesn't know how to drive.

Must pick myself up, been at the hospital today and can I just say I am loving the fact that I am a student midwife. Love looking at all of the pregnant women .

I am trying not to let what he says get to me, but it is hard because there is conviction in his voice, and he makes me doubt myself so much.

So, Rose, has he gotten a job even those it is likely beneath him? Shame he is running you down when you provided for him for years.

rose that is good that you have identified the 'convincing' thing about him - which turns out merely to be a particular tone of voice.

It's effective because he really does believe he is in the right, but that is his belief, not yours.

What tone of voice did the Driving Examiner use when he/she told you you had passed ?

Hansie, well he doesn't have a job yet no. He told me today he has applied for 49 jobs since I left, but has only been called in for interview for 1 (and was unsuccessful). He says that he is ' in the shit'. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of sympathy because when he got a job back in April, he was very pleased when he got himself the sack. He was whistling, and lying on the bed and saying ' this is the life'...so not really my problem if he is living in a flat he can't afford with zero furniture is it? . He forgets that since I have left, the rent was in credit, and I have paid over £1000 in childcare fees, and bought our DD new clothes, shoes food etc. His contribution has been a measly £5.00 a week, and he did pay a bill or two when I first moved in, but given that he stayed over during this time and ate the contents of my fridge, I call it even. Not to mention the train tickets I have bought for him. But, let's not forget how unreasonable I am for bringing up my discontent about all of this with him though. .

And Silvery, he said it very nonchalantly, but I could have kissed him all the same. My driving instructor was in the back seat, and she went WOOP WOOP WOOP really loudly!! Great moment.

Great to hear from you rose

I promise I will catch up with the thread this week, and give everyone else some support. Have to be up bright and early for the hospital tomorrow.

so good to hear from you rose, you sound so positive. yy to whoever said - he really believes it (can't scroll up) - that's sooo why they sound convincing. Doesn't make them right.

This thread moves fast!

It's my birthday tomorrow. He hasn't got me anything. He forgot. He usually does. He won't even get me something in retrospect.

He's being an arse again tonight for no reason. I am so sick of it. But I feel kind of trapped too. And so, so tired.

I need to get some advice from somewhere. CAB?

What do you need advice with? We (collectively) can probably start you off and point you towards info. Remind me: married? DC? housing? job(s)?

Before you say it, I know I got what I deserved because I called.
No rose abuse is never what you deserve. you called because you are compassionate. he abused you because he is abusive. yes it is best if you don't call him because he is a waste of your concern. be kind to yourself he won't

But it really hurts that I have to let go of this 'illusion' I once thought was the man I loved. I don't think he was ever there to begin with.

Yes it hurts. but this is an important truth. hold on to it. he is an illusion.

My ex says he doesn't hate me, but he sounds like he doesn't like me at all.

he is playing on you wanting him to like you. we all want to be liked and when we know we have done more to deserve someone to like us than we should, it hurts. he knows this. he is hitting you where it hurts. and he hates that you have seen through him. partly because he is not getting his needs met and partly because he can no longer pretend to himself that he is decent in any way when he is left with just himself.

I just don't know what I did wrong.
The reason you cannot think what you did wrong, is because you can't find something that is not there. he did wrong not you.

And I am sitting here crying again.
it will get better. this too will pass. I actually laugh now at some of the ridiculous shit my FW used to come out with because I see it now, he is fucking ridiculous.

He really believes I am the abuser.
he would like you to believe it. he almost certainly believes he is a victim. he entire way of life is totally invested in oh boo hoo is it not such a shame for me. I doubt he believes you are an abuser. and even if he does, it is just yet another things in the litany of ridiculous things he believes, like he is too good for work- did he not say he thinks he is a genius?

and then look at you. just look at you
driving in just one week
at university
loving your course
in your new house
NC for 7 days

not because of him rose, despite him. because of you, because you can do these things because you are worth so much more. you really are amazing, never forget it.

it is lovely to see you again. glad you have been busy doing so much positive stuff.
nothing can drag you down if you are not holding on (to steal a phrase from raisin)

icepole yy to asking on the thread.
also Women's aid. they really are worth contacting.

oh and happy birthday icepole

Rose re-read your original posts about exFW to remind yourself that it is HIM not YOU! you are not to blame and you've done a great thing to take back control of your life. It is sad perhaps that he won't be able to be involved in a meaningful way in the future, but I have to say that it's awful that he blames you for anything! He should be groveling by now and trying to make himself a better person still no job?? and thinking he will make it big as a musician is really lame at 40 sorry and not blaming you for doing something so positive. Well done on the driving test! and the course sounds fantastic, it will lead to a great career for you. Stay strong!

Ice Happy Birthday! Hope you can do something for yourself to make it a nice day. Lots of us on this thread get an inadequate response to birthdays etc in some form or fashion! You're in good company. I think my original post on MN (almost a year ago) was prompted by my birthday... in that he forgot it, I wouldn't have cared if he'd just been nice and kind but his lame attempts to do something made it all about him, etc etc-- typical!

Hip pain much better today, I think it is a 'fixable' muscle related problem and not a general downhill decline, I have a Dr's appt tomorrow morning to discuss.

I've been reading some other posts about Narcissism and DH ticks all the boxes.

He was so rude about my limping the other day I think my idea of playing it up (into convincing him I was destined to limp forever) was to push him into wanting to 'discard' me, which is the third phase of NPD attachment as I understand it! Probably over-analyzing the situation but it would make it so much easier for me to go if it was his idea-- as he will be furious if he thinks I am calling the shots.

I still feel sorry for him however and often feel great waves of pity for him. We went for a fancy tea yesterday in Central London (as we had a voucher we had to use given by someone, had to thank them and assure them we'd enjoyed it) and tried to have a nice time, we were both on 'best' behaviour, ie he was trying not to shout at me for being slow as hip problem was making me walk slowly, and I in some pain but trying not to show it especially as I was wearing nice shoes with a heel and not trainers, he told me I should wear trainers but I am too vain and wouldn't have enjoyed being in a fancy hotel wearing trainers so we had a nice time... well a shared adventure anyway, but later in the evening he was at it again-- I asked him if we could change TV channels and he went ballistic at me saying I was trying to ruin his evening.

I need to get a plan to leave him. I could easily slip into my usual inaction, complaining about him all the while. What a waste!

thats you may well be right re. convincing him to let you go. whilst it is absolutely true you do not need his permission to go, it is an awful lot easier to go if you will not have someone trying to reak havoc in your life afterwards. there is a link up the top somewhere about feigning depression and apathy etc. to convince them it is their idea that you go.

hope your hip gets better soon so you can pretend to limp instead of having to!

icepole maybe next birthday you will be able to enjoy without him

I wrote a big long post last night but it must have been eaten.

Set up is this.

3 properties. We rent two and live in one. The one we live in is my childhood home. It is also a total building site, he is doing the work. He is very practical, does all the DIY, fixes the cars, handles the money. I feel very dependent on him and being on my own scares me.

All properties in both our names.

I don't work. He does. Money is my biggest worry. Being at home with the kids is important just now (son has some issues) also I have health problems that make work hard but it's not enough to be entitled to anything. I am afraid of being pushed into shitty work that makes me ill. He knows this. One of his things right now is to threaten me with going back to work.

I just feel so, so sad about it all.

Last night I found out some major news about his Dad that happened a couple of months ago. He hadn't told me. I don't tell him my news because it will just be disregarded/used against me. This happened once when I won a competition, he just went mental. Now I keep that stuff quiet.

Last night he told me to get lost because I mentioned the word door. (We currently need a new door downstairs although my comment was not in relation to that at all).

Hi icepole. Did you inherit marital home? Do you know what equity is in other properties? Money is fairly easy to learn to handle, but for now, think about the capital.

If either DC is under 5, I don't think you'll be forced to work, should you end up with capital below the Income Support limit.

Icepole advice someone gave me way back when I was still with H, was think about what you have to do and all the problems you will face if you leave (if of course you do want to leave) and break it down into small steps. Then you can tackle it all piece by piece and at least you will feel like you're doing something to improve the situation without being overwhelmed. Then it all sorts of snowballs and sooner or later you'll be where you want to be.

Also, what is the value of the matrimonial home? Its half renovated state may end up being an advantage - if the property crash had not wiped off 60K from our Marital Home (owned jointly outright at start of divorce) I would not have been able to reach a settlement where I managed to keep the house all to myself and DCat.

I don't tell him my news because it will just be disregarded/used against me.

does he work and does he have a well paying job? if you split you are of course entitled to maintenance for the dcs.

and is there anything you could do/would like to do by way of qualifications/training? if you currently don't work then you may be able to go down that root before getting a job.

do the other properties generate an income? (over and above the cost of the property).

money is not nearly as complicated as he has probably made it seem.
the first step as silvery says may be to find out how much the houses are worth- can you surreptitiously find the paperwork or else if you know who you bank with contact them and ask them.