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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 13/09/2013 20:55

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
ninilegsintheair · 03/10/2013 09:45

absolute that's a fantastic outcome and good to read (so far removed from my own experience of the police after my DV incident).

Hi Colin, its normal I think to ask those kinds of questions, just try not to get too hung up on them. Sadly I don't think you'll ever get any real answers and only drive yourself mad trying to reach conclusions. 6 months out is good! Hope you're ok Thanks

thatsnot, are you me? I totally relate about hiding clothes - I do the same and my FW is the same as yours! The only new clothes he's had in about 3 years have been ones I've bought him, which he wears too often and then whinges when they fall apart. Then when I suggest he buys new ones he whinges that he 'cant afford them'. Hmm. No debt, good wage and savings - yet cant afford even the cheapest of clothes. Right. Your DD sounds awesome by the way Grin

ninilegsintheair · 03/10/2013 09:49

Having a melancholy day today and considering posting a topic on this to canvass opinions - do people stay together to 'protect' the children? Not in the way you might think, but it occurs to me that a big reason why I'm still a tad reluctant to go is this - I can remove myself from FW's company, but DD will still have to see him. When he is unreasonable towards her, 90% of the time it's when I'm around, so I can shield her from him. Case in point - when he screamed at her the other week till she cried in fear. I went to her, cuddled her close to calm her down and he stormed upstairs. If we were divorced, I can't be there to do that. She'd be alone with him. Sad How could I enjoy a child-free weekend (for example) not knowing what she could be going through? I can't do that to her. Comments? Sad

The fog is back, he's just being so reasonable. Talking about moving house next year (which I was planning in any case), and being all jokey and friendly. But suspect this may be down to the sex last week and it'll probably change next time I refuse him.

foolonthehill · 03/10/2013 10:11

Nini. Yes people stay together for the children. And they give in to pressure from outsiders to let the children see him more than they are comfortable with....the thing is if he is actually abusive to your DD she does not have to see him.

Read Lundy: Should I stay or should I go
Look at "When Dad Hurts Mom" by Lundy and Silverman.

weigh up your options and think of where you can best protect your daughter.

SOME abusers are able to parent, many are not, some abusers use children to get to the mother, some don;t. There are some good check lists in these books to help you.

Make the best decision for now and know you can and will be strong enough to do what is necessary for you and your girl.

ninilegsintheair · 03/10/2013 10:27

Thanks Fool, the voice of wisdom as always. Smile It's a lot to consider, and DD is my priority.

betterthanever · 03/10/2013 10:41

Absolute it must have taken so much strength to go through what you did - I am glad you only had to give evidence for 10 mins, thank you for sharing the information and I am pleased the system has protected you in the end as it should do.

Colin I hope you are feeling a bit brighter. I am always shocked how deep the damage goes and therefore how long it takes to recover from.
nini I can only echo what Fool has said but I would never be able to put it as well. I'm sorry I can't remember how old DD is but she does get a say in how much she sees him if you split. At first I would maybe not tell him you have any reservations as I am sure the more he knows you don't want DD with him, the more he will say he wants to see her - when in reality he may not see her that much as he is so selfish. It is a really tough call.
That's the storage unit is a wonderful idea - I would rather sit in one on my own than be with my exfw.

Taken today off - feel a failure but I am so drained and whilst I need the money I just couldn't face it. Just letting my mind process things - worrying about your DC with a FW is so painful nini I understand every word you put.

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 03/10/2013 15:10

nini it is not a fair choice Sad like so many things in DV you have to weight up two unpalatable choices.
On many ttreads you see grown ups from DV households who are angry their dm stayed as they feel that condoned FW behaviour. But of course they do not know what would have happened had they left. and i know for a fact my dcs would prefer if i came with them with FW.

You have to weigh up you and her being exposed to 100% of the time and her knowing nothing else even if you do shield her
versus her seeing you leave and being free from him the majority of the time and seeing a different way of life r/s but with the possibility of her bbeing alone with him- although as fool says with the option to remove contact if he is being abusive.
Not a great choice. i know which i would choose but it is a choice only you cnd make and not a position you should ever have been in the first place Brew

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 03/10/2013 15:17

better have a rest Brew don't feel bad. a body can only take so much.

ninilegsintheair · 03/10/2013 15:23

That's just it Mink, it's not a position SHE should ever have been in. I made my bed, she is an innocent party in the whole mess. There is always this horrible feeling that I could and should have seen the 'signs' before she was ever born, and avoided bringing an innocent into it in the first place. I'm sure some of you can understand that, but its a very dark and dangerous topic of conversation to get into...

Hope you're feeling ok better, try to be gentle to yourself. Thanks

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 03/10/2013 15:24

Just popping on while Brew brewing...

I thought I wasn't going to get everything done earlier, but it's all looking like it might just come together. Getting a little buzz of excitement - I am leaving this place (and all his junk which is all I can see now) behind!

:o

OP posts:
ninilegsintheair · 03/10/2013 15:32

Hooray Charlotte! I'll drink to that Brew Grin When do you get to escape?

arthriticfingers · 03/10/2013 15:38

Charlotte Wine Grin

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 03/10/2013 16:42

nini don't blame yourself. he chose to be a FW. and you are left with the fallout Sad
But yes I know what you mean about the innocentsSad

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 03/10/2013 16:45

Charlotte just let me know when it is tome to blow the whistle Smile

Think it might be about time for another celebration in the vixens Grin at the weekend. we can think of our reasons to be cheerful or hopes for the future.

honey86 · 03/10/2013 17:53

just re-marking my place (havent been on this thread for a while) its been a blissful 16 weeks without fw giving me crap (he was warned off by my solicitor).

but just 4 weeks til im due to give birth to his [biological] child, so im expecting him to kick off again/call social services/let my tyres down/ threaten me/spread more lies about me on fb (yes he really is that childish).

he was abusive in all the ways where theres no marks left to see. he called ss in the hope that id have the baby taken from me or the upper hand in court (another thing hes threatened) but they saw through his lies.
so watch this space Hmm

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 03/10/2013 18:01

honey good to see you again. how are you feeling with the pregnancy?

Noregrets78 · 03/10/2013 18:08

Shaky and stressed. FW has declared through his solicitor that he would like 100% of what we own, as a counter offer to my very reasonable and fair offer. I thought that having a solicitor would mean that they would keep him in check, and ensure what they were sending out the door is reasonable. Oh and he wants to be deemed main carer to help him get a house. Fuming. I'm guessing the anger is a good thing, to be embraced. It certainly feels better than the timid mouse I'm used to being. I'm thinking court is the only option. So scared of how long this will drag on, how it will affect DD.

IamRose · 03/10/2013 18:16

I am back....it has been nearly 8 weeks since I left the home I shared with FW.

But recent fw events has really made me wake up and smell the coffee....

Going to sit down with a nice hot chocolate later and catch up with all of your posts. I have missed you all. x

Inthequietcoach · 03/10/2013 18:31

nini, I actually think dc should not be the reason to stay. If there are welfare issues about contact, then limit/stop contact. I know that is easier said than done if FW takes it through the court, but dc growing up will also feel guilty if they know they are the reason you stayed. Seriously, there will come a point when they realise they were the reason you stayed. My mum told me she stayed with my dad because of us, and also that my dad screwed up her life. You cannot give that burden to a child, even if you do not do it as directly as my mum.

What does you sol say about contact?

honey86 · 03/10/2013 18:35

ok mink thanks although my hips are giving up on me so im on crutches and painkillers now, feel like a cripple lol.
no regrets Shock jeez what an utter arse. what on earth makes him think a court will just hand him everything on a plate, child and all? oh yeah, his fw delusions. still makes me Shock how incredibly over entitled they get.
unfortunately solicitors cant keep them in check, theyre just there to achieve on behalf of their clients. they might have told him its unlikely hed get such an outcome (behind closed doors obvs) but under his instruction theyd still send the 'i want everything' demand.

the first fw i came across, got his solicitor to send bitchy and selfish demands to his ex. he demanded so much, but he got sod all, and just every other weekend contact. chin up Thanks

ninilegsintheair · 03/10/2013 18:54

I dont have a sol yet quiet, havnt got beyond a free session. But theres no doubt FW would be given contact, hes surprisingly eloquent when needed.

Honey, hope you're feeling ok despite all the FWittery. What kind of man does this to a pregnant lady? Sad

noregrets, hopefully his unreasonableness will be his undoing. Stay strong and dont let the bastard grind you down!

Hey Rose, been thinking of you. Hope you're ok x

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 03/10/2013 19:17

nini although he will probably get contact if he behaves badly it can be scaled back and/or supervised.

MrsMinkBernardLundy · 03/10/2013 19:17

Hey rose

Inthequietcoach · 03/10/2013 19:53

nini, yes, he will be given contact, but it does not need to be overnight or unsupervised. You can say no. He would need to raise a court action, and before that, you can negotiate via sol or mediation. You can start with a few hours, you don't need whole weekends till she is older and able to communicate properly about what is going on.
You actually do not know what he will be like as a non-resident parent.
Nor do you know long term how you will be affected by maintaining something which makes you very unhappy.

ninilegsintheair · 03/10/2013 21:08

Thanks girls, lots to think about. Shes only 2 so only just able to explain things verbally properly.

Hes grumpy tonight because he raised the issue of us having another child. I said (as many times before) a resounding no. So now he said he doesnt like how its 'not up for discussion' Hmm.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 03/10/2013 21:17

Noregrets, that's crazy! Would be laughable if it wasn't so unsettling for you... I guess FW thinks himself above any solicitor's advice. Hmm

Hi Rose, missed you, too! Hope the course is going well.

So, I am all packed; the dcs have helped me flatpack my bed and wardrobe in lieu of a bedtime story! Tomorrow is the start of a new life.

I have planned tomorrow as well as I could, but a bit new to it all and a bit worried that I have been unrealistic in my plans. Bit worried about driving a van, too! Wish I had some strong men to help me move, but I have willing friends, and hopefully they will still be friends once we've finished!!

I should be able to get online now and then, so will hopefully be back soon. In the meantime, blow that whistle for me, Mink - I am so ready!!

OP posts: