Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Mistaken unfinished reply above....

I would like to prepare myself for my child's sake. Without her, I had gone out long long ago. But I do want to make this marriage work, and if it's no longer mean to be...then, at the mo, I am just a step short of being ready to accept that reality. Thanks all for your opinions & suggestions.

Thanks for letting me whine on this thread...all the best!

Hi guys,

I'm not a mum but I just wanted to go somewhere that I knew I could talk to older women who would be sympathetic. I hope that's okay.

I am female, have recently turned 20, and have been in a relationship with a much older man for the last year. More than double my age. I also suffer with anorexia and depression, and thus have a counsellor. I was speaking about the relationship with her today and realised some truths that I did not want to come to terms with. I think I am being manipulated into being a Plan B. "I love you so much," "You're the best girlfriend I've ever had," "I want to spend the rest of my life with you" .... "But I'm not ready to settle down yet. I need to sleep with other women first." This is one example of the mixed messages I am getting. I don't understand. I love this man unconditionally and would devote the rest of my life to him, and he claims to feel the same way, but his actions don't match up. Surely when you've found "the one", if you're telling the truth, you don't NEED to sleep with a ton of other women? I don't want to spend the next five years hanging around, waiting to see whether he falls in love with someone else or comes back to me. He'll tell me that he considers staying with me JUST enough that I don't leave, but he'll be angry at me for being upset and I often find myself apologising for his intimidating outbursts. And yet.... At the same time... He is the best, kindest, sweetest and most wonderful man I've ever known. And everybody we know thinks so.

I think I have to end things, or at least tell him where I'm at. That I'm not going to apologise for his anger. That he can either have me, or not have me, but he can't just keep me at arm's length, going on to have relationships and sex and other women while promising me we have a future together.

I know this isn't a big deal and everybody else suffers much worse than me. I don't know if this even counts as abuse. I don't think it does, but my counsellor told me it's called "headworking." I'm sorry for spamming up your message board. I just needed to talk anonymously. Feel free to ignore this message.

cat
He is "headworking"...playing on your love, your vulnerability and your ability to put up with lots of rubbish because the good times are good.

You are worth much more than this, you deserve to be loved wholeheartedly and completely...your depression and eating disorder may lead to you to believe you do not deserve this ...but you do.

You are doing the right thing working on yourself with your counsellor. I cannot see that your relationship will do anything other than damage you and play on your insecurities.

Get rid of him, do it decisively and finally. Cut all contact. let him go love up the universe of women (if they will have him) and massage his ego with them.

Wait and work on yourself and when you are ready date and find someone who will be the boyfriend that you deserve...wholeheartedly into YOU.

good luck, stay strong

Hi mink. So much stuff happened over the past few days. Too much to even post about.

To cut a long story short I told my family about what has been going on. They were very supportive. Sunday things were really bad and i called my mum and dad over because he was escalating and getting aggressive towards me.

We all sat down and talked about the fucking lunch and how to come to a compromise. So I am now making his lunch twice a week and on his part, he is having to do more around the house. So far it's working. However my feelings towards him have changed quite badly. I will never forget how badly he treated me this past week over something so stupid as making lunch.

He ruined my Saturday and actually told me he wanted to make my day shit. Who the hell says that

Now we came to this compromise he is as happy as pie. I still feel quite bitter. He wants to have sex, I don't want him to touch me obviously I will get over this but it's like everyone has said to me, it's not that bad you will get over it. He didn't really get a grilling from my parents about the physical aggression, just some strong words and suggestion of counselling.

That's it, back to normality for me. Why do I feel so sad :(

random i am guessing you feel sad because the trust has gone and because underneath it al you know he probably won't change. Sorry toe the voice of doom but this will probably just turn out to another turn of thewheel in the cycle of abuse. you give a bit he gives a bit then he takes back the bit he gave and escalate again. however, there are positives, you're here on thisthread. you have made contact with WA. your parents are aware there are issues.and he knows they are watching him.

Take strength from all these things. we are here when you need us. i hope things do work out but if they don't then there are options. also get a copy of Lundy,have a read.

cat welcome. sorry that your situation is such that you have to be here. but you are not spamming the thread. the thread is here for you and all of us . He sounds like a piece of work in short. what would he say if you said, fine, I am sleeping with other men too? The answer to that will tell you a lot about where you are.

redmaple also welcome. the house you are living in just now, is his name on the paperwork?

And jally is there anything in the planning we can help with?

random that is no resolution at all! I suppose your parents thought they were being helpful to sit down with you and sort it out (and glad for you that they are supportive but please let them know that this was a control battle rather than a simple disagreement about lunch making) but with this type of man (who has discovered he has this need to control you) there is no way he has seen your side of it-- he seems to think he's won which is all that matters to him. The fact that he's gloating about it (if I've understood correctly) when he still has to make his lunch some of the time just goes to prove it isn't about making the lunch, it's about him making you do what he wants. Not sure where you should go from here but the fact is that YOU aren't happy, do NOT try to override your feelings and tell yourself that it's OK and it's been sorted out when it obviously hasn't.

I'm terribly passive aggressive at times (and have been wondering all along if I make his abusive tendencies worse because of it but that's another story) but if I were you I would be planning to make his lunch very very badly in the future and not give it the loving care and attention every FW seems to think their lunch deserves... I'm ashamed to say that I used to spit in H's tea (as he has always bombarded me with incessant demands for tea and never, really never done anything for me) but it's been going on for so long now that I don't even bother any more.

Was going to press 'post' then I remembered something that happened last night that I'm thinking about. We were watching Midsomer Murders and a character's wife had run off with a yoga instructor. He put his hand on my knee (in a way he'd intended to be nice but was creepy) and said 'you won't ever run off with a yoga instructor will you?' I jumped back and pushed his hand away (we never ever touch except in bed when he wants sx) and he got furious with me and called me a frigid btch... and he said 'I was trying to do something NICE for you and that's what I get' !? (nice?? put his hand on my knee?? ick!) I guess he thought he was complimenting me and saying that he wants us to stay together and for me to reassure him I won't leave. Heck no... no promises from me! I asked him to think about what he'd said re: frigid b*tch but he was unrelenting, I ended up apologizing saying I'd been caught off-guard. Poor man. I feel really sorry for him, he has such anger. I said to him that I was sad about DD leaving (4 days now) and he just said nothing, not sure if he even cares that it should be a big deal for me for my youngest to be leaving. Selfish ar$ehole.

random have you got the Lundy Bancoft book yet? If you haven't yet please read it, you will see your H there described to a T. There is also lots in there about cultural influences and how communities (often unwittingly) support abusers. Might be worth thinking about. Sorry you're so now.

I guess he thought he was complimenting me and saying that he wants us to stay together and for me to reassure him I won't leave.
I guess he thinks he owns you and he can put his hand on your leg when he damn well pleases and you should like it
he may be trying to make you think he was being nice (even more )

it is my number one pet hate. men doing something that you are perfectly entitled to object to and them complaining that they were either joking or being nice therefore you are the one with the problem. (different situation but now in the wake of the Jimmy Saville thing several BBC staff are finding out that they can tell the judge they were flaming joking/being nice)

In a normal relationship your reaction would be worrying but a normal partner would say, why did you flinch? are you ok? not call you a frigid bitch. and yours is not a normal rs and obviously he knows that you are not willing to be touched that is what he is angry about. well he has no flaming right to be angry. and [boke]

the sooner you can go the better thats.

Hey cat don't apologise for posting, that's the rules here! I don't have any more advice - fool is a wise lady - but please keep posting if it will help you gain some clarity. Sometimes, with men who are controlling and manipulating, what they say makes sense when you are with them, then when they leave it's just fog. So come on here and let us help you cut through the fog to the truth, your truth.

random - it's like I said, the lunch is not the issue. The fact that there has been a 'comprimise' has made your H as smug as punch, because he managed to even get your own family to manipulate you back into making his lunch for him. And since no-one in your family took him to task for how he has behaved, he has basically got what he wanted, and gotten away with being aggressive to get it. He will behave like that again. You need a plan to get out, or at least a plan to talk to someone like WA in real life and get some advice. Stay safe, sweetie.

thatsnot countdown indeed. What's your plan after DD leaves for uni?

Thanks for your responses, I haven't had a chance to get on here and the thread has moved quickly. I'm nearly 6 months in and am just feeling worse. I can feel depression is looming, I'm constantly ill and I dream about him all the time. I keep wishing we were still together and I want his babies - not at all rational, obviously, head knows FWs not good fathers - but it's just this biological urge.

Colin it seems 6 months out can be a critical time. This is your addiction giving it one last try to get its way.

Hope your work is going well.

fool, pony and mink, thank you for the advice. We're still together, but just having said to him that I don't want that future has made the fog start to clear. I can tell that I'm about to be given a ton of new promises, but I don't know if I want them. I'm starting to realise that just because somebody says "I'm sorry about the other night - I think that might have been abuse!!!" doesn't make it okay and doesn't mean you should laugh with them about it.

Work not going well unfortunately, I don't feel on top of things, I've had a bad sinus infection but managed to keep going until I got a stomach bug yesterday. So off sick today and yesterday. I always thought he'd realise his mistake and come back and he's not going to.

Colin mind and body are part of the same system - so you are bound to feel a bit down. Sounds like you need a rest for the remainder of the week. I don't suppose he was very good with other people's illness, was he?

cat so glad you found us. The earlier in your life you learn to recognise and deal with (men who turn out to be) FWs, the better. And the EA thread is just the right place for that.

Yup silvery got it in one. He was a standard issue FW when it came to illness. He was ALWAYS feigning illness and demanded full Florence Nightingale treatment but it would later reveal itself as a hangover. I either had to stay away so he didn't catch it or elicited no sympathy/looking after. I once rang him saying he was feeling well and his first reaction was 'so I'm not seeing you today then? What am I supposed to do?'. In fact it was more than once.

I'd love to be able to relax but I've so much on. Just need to get the bare minimum done and get through.

Colin you are feeling poorly and blue. time of year too perhaps.
But at standard issue FW

I should send you the big orange knob of entitlement [BOKE] to keep you strong

Think I was here a loooong time ago, under a name I have forgotten! (And not sure where earlier thread is archived to find it).

Just checking back in, with you lot who helped me more than you will ever know. I was the one being bombarded with threatening and abusive emails from an emotionally-controlling ex from TEN years ago! About 6 years ago he tried to take our 2 kids from me - Family Courts ended up giving him no direct contact and only a few mailings per year, to the kids. The was an F4J type, and later did the Alpha course which seemed to send him absolutely nuts... Then in March 2012, the emails started.

Anyway, it got to 30 emails and I couldn't decide whether or not to go to the police.... 60, then 100, then... a stalking helpline advised me I should do something. It was well over 300 emails (some days I got a dozen, and these would e anything from 1 -90 pages long if printed out, some calling me a 'child abductor' - many copied in to 80 people or more...

Turned out two police forces, 200 miles apart, spent several months arguing which would have the expense or arresting him. In the time they dithered, and argued - he sent another 200 or so.

Finally, the Met (he was in London) warned him and like an idiot he responded to their warning from the same email address he had harassed me from... proof the emails came from a London address, thus forcing the Met to arrest.

We travelled all the way down to London to the magistrates court, for the trial only for him to rant on so long, they realised he was nuts and asked for a District Judge instead of the magistrates. Magistrates couldn't handle it.

A month later, all the way there again... this time the judge got on with it and we got a guilty verdict. His Alpha course mates (from a church in Holborn, London) turned up in weird matching grey suits like mormons or something, trying to be character witnesses. Someone with previous doesn't get that privilege, so they were not allowed to take the stand - but I found it upsetting they were supporting a criminal who harassed women (I'm not the first). A month later, he got a derisory sentence despite the judge saying it was at the extreme end of the harassment spectrum... 12 weeks imprisonment, suspended for 12 months... a leg tag and curfew (which means he can't effectively get up to Yorkshire in a day and back again so that keeps me safe til the end of Nov), and a fine £600 court costs.

Oh and a LIFETIME court order banning him from ever contacting me again. Straight to prison for 6 months if he so much as hits send on a single email. That alone, was worth all the suffering.

Now, the thing you all need to know is - if you can get it to court, you can even get the court order preventing contact if they get acquitted. Worth knowing. (Apparently magistrates often acquit men who they actually feel are guilty but there is not enough proof).

Hope any of you who need to know this - act on it. The police were great (our end - Met didn't want the expense of arresting this dick). Please if a man is harassing you, do all you can to bring it to court. The peace of mind we have got - despite the derisory sentence - is worth all the hassle and pain. Giving evidence was amongst the worst few minutes of my life. But it was just ten minutes. (Last time he got off on a technicality after I was five hours giving evidence - that was about 6 years ago. It's no longer like that).

If he is a litigant in person (and many nutters are), ask the police to get a Section 36 - then he is not allowed to question you in the witness box.

Also you can give evidence from behind a screen. We were intimidated by his creepy Alpha pals glaring at us throughout - but that could have been worse. If you're being harassed... get down the police station. Report it. See it through.

Love to all of you going through it. xxx

I'm glad I still have my humour about this mink

Got so many questions around in my head, things that I've not been bothered about for 6 months that are all of a sudden emerging. I'm reliving it over and over again all the time, the last time I saw him. I had such a vivid dream last night and I asked him if he had any intention of paying me back any money and he laughed. That's so true and I'm so sad he took advantage of me. I feel so stupid.

Anyway, my thoughts are...

• it's been 6 months, how can you not be missing me and wanting me back?
• why have you managed to get a career together now and you didn't for me?
• how could you have been such a cocklodger?
• why was she better than me?
• why am I getting worse now?

Rant rant rant.

absolute well done for seeing it through and what a great outcome. Hope he stays where he belongs from now on and out of your life-- it is inspiring to hear of the system working as it should!

colin stay strong.

absolute thank you. it is good to know the system works sometimes.
Sorry you had to go through all that.

Colin he probably does miss you but he has realised you have him sussed. he can see the change in you and knows you would not have him back

• because he is a cocklodger and a dick and will never change
• she is not better than you she is just his current host. the only difference between you and her is that she has not sussed him out yet.
• the adrenaline has worn off. distance has dulled your memory of some of the worst bits. if you did see him it would probably bring it back into focus (not suggesting you do see him).

I suspect you natural desire to have kids is kicking in and you are worrying you have missed a chance
But although it is hard to wait it really is better for you and your dcs to find them a worthwhile dad.

Colin you are so much better off with him out of your life-- I suspect that (as with most men of this type) you will never get the answers or closure you want but don't let it affect YOU. You've moved on, bound to be a few blips along the way, but he is well and truly behind you now. And even if his life looks good from the outside, you know that the reality is probably something very different.

Just have to tell someone-- I rented a storage unit yesterday with the idea of being able to leave the house and be 'of no fixed abode' for a while if necessary. I paid 8 weeks so that gives me a focus. I have absolutely no real plans on what to do after DD goes off to uni. But I like knowing that I have some things stashed away, it strangely made me feel safe/happy to know that I've got somewhere besides here. I put some boxes of things I haven't looked at for years (old family photos, quilts etc) that it would have been easy to let go but I'd regret it if I did.

What I've also put in there (so far) is the surplus of clothes that I would be horrified for H to find, well more like that H would be 'justifiably' angry if he knew how much I have, as he doesn't agree with spending on clothes (has no idea about shopping, I buy for him, he doesn't realize I buy him new shirts etc and put them in his wardrobe, he thinks he hasn't had any new clothes for years. Idiot.). I have massively overspent over the past year (all bargains mind you) out of anger and frustration (my excuse) and because I was the only one who looked at the bank account and was furious at how much he'd insisted we spend on the house renovation when he was insisting that we cut down. Of course his idea of cutting down was changing our TV package so it didn't have the 'record' feature (which only saved a couple of pounds) and of course I was the only one who used it-- to record programs I wanted to watch when (of course) he wanted to watch something else.

Anyway I knew I could 'sneak' purchases through, it became a joke between me and the kids because they knew that every time he 'forced' us to spend time in the countryside when I wanted to be at home I'd spend time online shopping and have to sneak boxes into the house when we got back. But that has got to stop not helping anyone plus I have a major surplus of clothes now and all in size 14 when I am actually ever so slightly more like a 16 right now but it's a good diet incentive-- OK confession over!

I am wondering if he is going to be ultra nice after DD leaves. I got this impression yesterday, realized that it being just him and me here may suit him just fine. As long as I am behaving myself of course

He had a major tiff with DD because he calls all women 'birds' and she lectured him mercilessly about objectifying women. He will not listen, when she finished he just said something about 'birds' talking a lot. Also he called her a 'good girl' earlier which made her (and me) burst out sniggering because it sounded like the 'Blurred Lines' song-- which she hates and supports banning it on uni campuses. My DD is a feminist how did that happen I wonder? At least she can stand up for herself!

that's brilliant news about the storage unit. and your DD sounds like she bas a good heading her shoulders and boundaries that will stand her in good stead.