Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Did you get to go on your nite out then random? hope so. Hope you are ok when you get in.

Glad you managed to go out another - you don't have to tell him anything no matter how sympathetic he tries to portray himself, you wanted a confidental conversation with someone about how you were feeling that didnt know you and could be impartial, is about as much as I would say. You have a right to your own time for nurishment. Sleep well and take care.
Cheers dillie when I have those days I just try to tell myself not every day can be brilliant, I try and tell myself my body/mind is just doing something natural to remind me to stay strong and what I feel about what happened is right. Even people without FW's have a bad day, I hope tomorrow be better for you and the helps.
I've got a madonna one in my head breathe but can't remember the title.. it goes...I don't wana hear, I don't wana know, please don't say your sorry, Ive heard it all before and I can take care of myself.. or something like that maybe it's bed time for me.

He has very good functional but not relational boundaries then kou I know I have been reading the book I really wish I had learned more about emotions and the mind when younger - it should be taught from primary school age on. I try and pass on things to DS and you know what he eats it up and gets it much easier than I did when older.
Tell your ex when he invents the anti FW drug he will get the hotel service, but then he would not ask for it as you could have given him the pill. I am sorry about what happened, it is such a shame he doesn't see what is really important and how for all his sucess his failure to his family just wipes it out and makes it count for nothing.

Oh xpost random, good luck, we're here with kitchen implement army at the ready for you. Take care.

random that is just awful - your job to make his lunch!!! And refusing to do a nappy. I thought my FW was bad but he wouldn't stoop that low. I hope WA has been helpful and that you feel like you have options. Good luck going in. We're behind you. Glad you got your night out anyway

breathe I've been singing Katy Perry 'Tiger' all week. I love the 'you held me down, but I got up. Already brushing off the dust' line.

random my FW would do that, demand that I tell him exactly what I'd said to people, specifically about him as well. Then would tell me I wasn't allowed to discuss 'him' or our problems with anyone, and if I did I would be disrespecting him terribly, not like a wife at all, etc. And I tied myself up in knots for ages thinking maybe I shouldn't be 'gossiping' to others about our life. But I wasn't doing it except with a couple of trusted friends. I needed an outlet. So do you. He's trying to cut off your outlets and hem you in.

better i think it's just called 'Sorry'? It's definitely last orders for me. Eyes weary. Am off up the hill to Bbedfordshire (not really, I'm in a flat...). Goodnight one and all. x

bounty me too re the Katy Perry song. It makes me think of Tis (who I know loves KP) and everyone else on this thread. It should be our anthem! Good choice.

KouignAmann - My FW just thinks he should be a world expert on something and revered. One of his big dissatisfactions in life is that he is a 'nobody'.

rose hope the course is going well and you are just so busy you cannot make it into the vixens

Night all

Can I just say a big thank you to everyone who gives me advice or is just there to support. I am also sorry I am self absorbed at the moment but I feel so overwhelmed with my problems that I don't think I can offer much back.

We argued. He can not get over the fact I have told him to make his own lunch for work. It is what has made him so angry. He said he couldn't believe i rang the Samaritans and talked to some random about our problem. He also compared me to my sister saying we are complete opposites and that I am lazy, that I don't do much around the house

He was trying to justify his physical violence and he still believes he was right in what he did because I disrespected him by turning away when he was trying to talk to me.

He said he is more than happy for us to go to my parent's house so they can find out what I'm like. That I'm not making his lunch. He said I can tell them what he has done (re: becoming physical) as he believes they will think he was justified because I was being difficult and provoking him.

I truly am in disbelief at how bad this has become over fucking lunch. Wtf is this?! I'm sick of it.

He also said that I have mentally abused him and caused him a lot of grief and that I am not the only victim.

Also when I was about to leave yesterday to go out to eat with my friends, he looked me up and down as if to inspect what I'm wearing and then looked away. I asked him if there was a problem, and he said my jeans were too tight nothing positive to me. He also said, why is your hair all proofed up. I told him I didn't have time to wash it because of what happened last night so had to dry shampoo it. What he implied was I looked nice but couldn't tell me.

another he has no redeeming features! Is he four years old?

Have we taught you how to play FW bingo yet Random? Your NSDH would be a great subject. Your list to tick off so far today includes:

Criticizing your clothes as too provocative
Accusing you of abusing him
Trying to cut you off from family
Stonewalling/sulking behavior to punish you
Blaming you for provoking him to violence
Wanting to manage what you say to others about him to preserve his image
Not understanding your thoughts are private and not for his inspection.

He is a fine specimen of the FW breed. He should be exhibited as a warning. Now where is the bus that comes to take him away to the FSOF where he belongs!

Detach detach detach Random. And DO go to your DPs so they can see what he is really like :-)

random the lunch is a red herring. It's not the problem. The fact that he expects you to make his lunch (and fully expects your own parents to support him in this, along with condoning his violence) speaks volumes of his entitlement. It is what the lunch represents. It represents you. You are not doing as he wants. You are daring to defy him. You are daring to deny him something he believes he is entitled to (someone making his meals for him).

You said your parents might actually be on his side, due to cultural issues? If that's true, then try not to put too much stock in anything your parents say if they think you should be making his lunch and they are ok with him being violent. It is not about them. It is about you, and how you feel. And you know it's not right, and that you not making his lunch would be fine, in a normal relationship.

random yy to the looking up and down thing and then saying nothing as I'm about to go out with friends. My FW does that all the time. Mine is a strange character though - usually my clothes are not tight enough in his opinion I should add

Do you have any ideas on how to get out?

Thinking of you , and everyone else on here too

Those of you that left secretly and then emailed or phoned to inform you FW - I presume you felt a little guilty from doing it in an underhand way. Did that guilt give your FW any leverage to win you back or persuade you that you were awful/abusive etc ? Did he make you feel sorry for him for leaving him in the lurch like that? Or once you had gone were you able to detach from all the manipulation?

FW bingo lol will play it everyday at this rate and check off lots of things!

I'm not sure what my parents would say, I think they would be on my side to be honest. I'm hoping they will tell him he is being out of order but then he will most likely get a meeting together with his family who would most likely agree with him and back him up. His family are way more traditional and conservative than mine. I reckon my mum would go ape shit at him as she has suffered from DV in early marriage.

He keeps wanting to talk about things with me, about the lunch thing amongst other stuff. I cannot be bothered. I don't understand what he is expecting from me. Does he want me to just give in? I hate it because he drones on forever.

He isn't helping around the house either, so it's either I do everything or I try and wait it out hoping he may wash the dishes or Hoover. :(

random at the end of the day whether your parents or your FW's parents think he is right/wrong is immaterial. It comes down to whether he can/will change to become the sort of person that you are happy to go on living with. And whether you can trust him after the violence as well. I agree it is an awful lot easier if your parents are on side, but you are the only one who has to live with him. Often FWs are pretty good and convincing others that they are the ones being wronged.

bounty re my FW coming home to an empty house and a letter - he did try to use it to guilt me. Mainly along the 'you've broken my heart' comments and 'how do you think I felt coming home to find that?' I'll be honest, I found it really really hard. The broken my heart comment was left as a voicemail on the day - I listened to it over and over, and every time I thought my heart would break, and waves of guilt would crash over me. And I think, in retrospect, my own guilt about leaving led me to get myself into the awful situation of trying to work things out with him over last summer, whereby I was taking DS2 up to his almost every day so he could spend time with his dad. Plus FW would lay it on thick and go on about me taking his son away from him, yadda yadda.

Make no mistake, your FW will use every trick in the book. And it will be really, really hard to detach, to not believe him, because you will be sad and emotionally vulnerable. But you have the jump on him - you have us. I didn't start posting on here until after I left. You will need steel in your blood. It will be hard, it will be painful, it will be upsetting. But it's what needs to be done. Think of it like a life-saving operation - you'd rather not go through it, all the pain, it will be traumatic and scary - both for you and the people around you who love you like your parents, but afterwards, after you have healed, you will be like a new person.

Thanks pony You are right. I do have you. And I have my parents. And I have my friend. I'm sure it will be incredibly hard but at least there is support available to us

The alternative of walking out with him knowing I'm going is that he attempts to block my path or wrestle DD out of my arms. Does anyone have experience with that? If he refused to let me out or tried to hold onto DD then can I call the police. Do I have a right to remove DD from the family home against his wishes? As her father does he not legally have an equal right "to say she is not going to my parents" as I have in saying "she is coming to my parents, like it or not"

Just trying to work through lots of scenarios in my mind

The thing is, Bounty, if he was a reasonable person you could discuss separating and sharing care of DD and how you will co-parent. No sane person would wrestle your child away from you causing distress and upset to everybody. But if that was the case you wouldn't be considering leaving. I
t is because he is an abusive FW and will react angrily and aggressively that you are planning to leave, and that same tendency means you have to do it secretly without warning him. Think of it as protecting your DD from a horrid scene and doing the best for her.

FWIW I waited till FW was up in London for the day then moved out. He knew I was planning to go but not when. For days I thought he would turn up on my doorstep and rant at me.

bounty I've PMed you, but I'll post this bit on here.

IME, the police cannot stop him taking DD, unless a crime has been committed, eg he assaults you. If he refuses to let you out, that's a crime, he's holding you against your will. My godmother's daughter's abusive ex refused to hand back her one-year-old about a year ago, police were called, said they could do nothing as no crime had been committed and the child was in a place of safety with his father.
But similarly, he could say 'I'm calling the police, you have no right to take DD away'. He could go ahead, and they could do nothing, because you have every right.

Yes, technically, he has legally equal rights. But that is not to be used for ordering you about, and he has no reasonable reason for doing so, other than control. Don't overthink this. He is not in any way justified in forbidding you to go to your parents' with her, legally or otherwise.

Thanks pony I think it is called sorry I nodded off.
I'm on a mission today, got a letter from the government they have bitten, I am not stopping now at getting the system changed. Anyone else wanting a contact to write to let me know. I can also let you know what I and a few others are trying to get changed legislation wise in case anyone wants to make the same points. Had a great chat with an 80 + year old man who gave me a lot of very wise advice about things regarding law and the government bless him.
random have you read the chapter in Lundy about allies - it may only be a couple of pages but it is spot on. Fool mentioned it the other day - they all use the same tricks. Sharing them on here has really helped me.
bounty your advice to random answers your own question Often FWs are pretty good and convincing others that they are the ones being wronged. if you try and do things that are the least upsetting it will make no difference at all, he will see himself as wronged no matter what you do, how you do it or how long you do it or not do it for.
When I sent my FW the first sol. letter 8 years ago I was full of guilt, my bro remembers me ringing him asking if I had done the right thing, he had said; `he has just threatned to punch you again - yes you have, you should have phoned the police to be honest'. I am so glad I sent those now, they are some of the main bits of official evidence I have. No matter what I would have done back then, I would have been wrong. Making it as safe and as painless for you is the main thing. You are protecting yourself against abuse.

bounty I must have missed that bit about him saying he will phone the police if you take DD to your parents with you - I hope he does. That would then present very good evidence about his controling nature should you ever need it. I think it would also demonstrate emotional abuse towards your DD, stopping her relationship with her grandparents, how he sees her as a possesion. Oh bounty its just terrible. A normal person just would not even threaten that.

bounty, pony is right about police involvement re giving DD back to either you or him. however if he were to attempt to wrestle DD from your arms they take assaulting a mother whilst she us holding her child very seriously.they would arrest him for that.

Is this mostly about that happens if you go to your parents? Or if you leave? Or both?
If you do want to leave but tell him first, i wouldn't, but if you do, i suggest taking DD to your patents first or to a friend so she is not there when/if you do tell him.

better thanks - it's funny that we can see the answers clearly in everyone elses situations but not in our own murky worlds. No you didn't miss a bit about him threatening me with the police. I'm just trying to work through every scenario and what could or might happen and then how I'd react.

mink , pony thanks for clarifying about police involvement. I think on balance that if/when I go it is best to just walk out without any warning or conversation and then send an email once I'm gone. He is going to be upset and cross either way, but the risk of him blocking my exit and DD getting caught in it all is not worth having. One option could be to leave with DD and then go back perhaps with my Dad and explain my actions. Probably no real point to this other than in my own conscience it makes me seem less cruel, heartless and underhand.

mink it's about both really. If I just went to my parents. Or if I went to my parents and then announced that I wasn't coming back.