Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 26

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hello friends old and new. fool I'm sorry to hear there's no let up with the FW. I hope it improves.

I was going to start a new thread about something but thought I'd come to my comfy place. I'm sorry I seem to post without giving anything because I'm sporadic over all this.

I'm five months on and I appear to have hit the earth with a massive bump. I was so busy having fun and feeling liberated but the reality has kicked in that this isn't a holiday away from FW, this is real life. He isn't coming back. I've been more upset this last week than the last few months put together.

I have realised that I don't want a relationship again. At first I was quite keen to have other irons in the fire. I knew I still loved FW yet knew I couldn't continue to be abused by him and felt vulnerable if he came back. I wanted an external reason not to let that happen. But I don't want to answer to anyone and I want my time to be my own.

One good thing from realising FW is a FW is my sensitised FW radar. So, I went on one date with this guy. I've been flat out with work and weddings and illness so literally hadn't had time to see him again. We kept texting and I lost the inclination to see him again - jokes about rape and domestic violence not at all welcome. I decided not to see him again. I'd been in two minds and these texts just tipped me into NO. I thought 'he's telling you what he is. LISTEN'. Was wondering how to play it when I got a text off his apparent ex girlfriend who had found a few texts - she was not happy. He texted apologising making out she was mental and I just thought 'he's being a FW!'. I asked him not to text, and he sent an epic reply saying he was obsessed with me. He's met me twice! One of those was ten minutes, one was a night out on the piss. Red flags waving! I downloaded ios7 which means I was able to block him.

I miss, miss, miss FW more than ever. I think about him all the time. I wish he would come back. Even though I know I can't have my fantasy version of him. I know in my bones he would continue to damage me. But I'm struggling with my feelings. I still love him and I think I always will.

Hi, just back from holiday haven't looked at the thread for a week and just catching up. Random your lunch story wounds so familiar to me, that could have been me 15 years ago trying to get him to do things for himself, the arguing just wears you down and I always just eventually gave in and did things for him. What is so annoying is that there is always an excuse, I got the 'so and so's wife does it and never complains' all the time, I still always get veiled implications that I'm not as good as other 'wives' and it still gets to me. I think it is the FW sense of entitlement when I am behaving correctly he never feels like he has to say thanks or show any appreciation, if I'm looking nice he never feels he should tell me, but if I'm not performing up to standard he is quick to criticize. He often looks me up and down and doesn't say anything-- so rude!

Holiday was hell place was great and weather was great but he behaved like a selfish entitled FW and spoiled any goodwill. However am relieved that we got back in one piece, so to speak, and we did do a lot of sightseeing which DD wanted to do (DS couldn't have cared less, only cared about getting a wifi connection). I was so worried about the driving out there and it was terrifying. His temper was awful and could change in an instant- I need to go back over the week and document all the things he did... such as the first night there I wasn't wearing a 'sexy' nightie in bed and he somehow (still not sure how this happened) said I wasn't allowed to sleep in the bed (as I wasn't 'up for sex') and I ended up sleeping on the floor (and NOT a comfortable one) with the spare blankets I found in the wardrobe. Etc etc loads of blatantly abusive things. I need to write it down soon before I forget and sweep everything under the carpet like I always do.

He was nice to me at one point interestingly, the last day we were there, he said he'd had a dream that I planned a holiday with the kids and other people, and deliberately left him out, and he felt really sad and left out (in his dream). So he was really nice, polite, appreciative and helpful for a couple of hours and it was so obvious that he was capable of being decent little things, like getting me a coffee at the self-service restaurant (the whole week he would go and sit down, then order me/the kids to bring him food/drinks, if we objected he'd get angry and said that we didn't care that his legs were hurting. WTF?)

I couldn't tell him how f**ing prophetic his dream was... but it wasn't a holiday, more like the rest my life I'm hoping to exclude him from. Now we need to get through this week, his birthday on Sunday and I haven't planned anything. I need to make some kind of an effort as I don't want to arouse any suspicions re: leaving, I am realizing how unprepared I am to actually leave him even though I have constructed a fantasy in my mind of how I will go. It is the big wave of pity I feel for him every now and again that is going to scupper my efforts.

Sorry to be so me-me-me. Hope everyone else is doing OK, I start writing with intentions to respond to other people's situations but I start thinking about my own issues and forget what I was going to say. Will try to catch up!

Colin sounds like you had a lucky escape there. jokes about dv. who does that!?! 5 months is not long. not long at all. anything you feel now is not set n stone. i am now 8 months out and still only tentatively around and not sure i can cope with rs (and i have been trying).
The long wait to feel better is very frustrating (literally ) but it is time well spent on yourself to secure a happier future.

fool sorry it still goes on and on. Sending you strength and love (and bunting)

fi i hope the maelstrom is starting to pass. sending you strength also and wishing for a calmer sea and brighter days ahead.

that's don't worry too much about the rest of the thread focus all your efforts on that one last big push to get out.
Save your pity he has plenty for himself and none tospare on you.
You can do this. you can and you will. It is the rest of your life you need to think about. focus on you.
Sorry you had such a rotten time on holiday. glad you got back safely.

I agree Colin you are still in recovery and it may take longer to get rid of the residual cravings. Think of yourself like a recovering addict. You are doing well and can always come here to post when you feel like relapsing.

I have found I notice red flags a lot now, just out and about. I am a very trusting positive person and usually give people the benefit of the doubt so it is quite a shock to realise there are abusive people all around. Like losing my innocence.

Fool you have been so strong for so long and are a bit of a thread heroine. We are all rooting for you and will have a lock in at the Vixens when the time comes to celebrate victory.

Mink I agree. After two years with a lovely man I am still unsure if I am fit to be with anyone. He seems to think I am, but I still worry that either I will start to treat him badly, as FW said I was abusive, or that I will accidently become his minion because I am so well trained.

Strength to all of you

thanks

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this is hanging in the vixens ready for tonight

til then

colin I imagine that down episodes are part of the healing process. Something to grow through although it hurts

fi really hope things lighten up for you soon. You too fool. Both of you are so helpful on this site, you deserve some positivity of your own.

thatsnot glad you survived the holiday. I wonder whether his 'dream' is actually fishing to find out what you are thinking?

Now I'd like you all to tell me some honest advice as to whether there is any chance at all that I might be in the wrong here. Back story for those who don't know/can't remember. FW and my mum had a falling out over 18months ago and since then he has not spoken to her. She had written a few times and tried to meet up but he had blocked all attempts (he denies this). Then over the last 6 months I haven't really tried to encourage a reunion as I've been so unsure about what is going to happen with me and FW that it didn't seem worth dragging my parents emotions through all this if we end up splitting anyway.

So next week is my Dad's birthday. Mum phoned to invite us over. I asked FW if it would interfere with his plans or was it ok to go. He asked if he was invited. I said that yes he was welcome. He replied that he didn't want to go, that he wasn't playing happy families after 18 mo of no contact at all. I said that I'd take DD for a few hours. He ha said that I can not take DD. I can go by myself but he will not allow DD to come.

He wants me to phone my mum and say that I will not stand for her dividing our family (ie me going over without him) and that I will only come once things are sorted out between her and FW and we can all go together. To sort things out he is proposing that we meet weekly as a 4some (me, FW, mum and dad) for a month and then perhaps we can all go over together.

I suggested that I could take DD this week for the birthday as it is already 6 weeks since my parents last saw me and DD. And then we could try the peace talks after that.

He said no. That I cannot take her and we must do it his way. Apparantly it is all my fault as I've made no attempt to bring about a reconciliation over the last 18 months. Every time I've taken DD to my parents on my own he says that I have condoned and encouraged her divisive behaviour.

What do you think? Is there even a tiny glimmer of him being right. That I shouldn't have gone to my parents without him. That I should have been more instrumental in getting everyone together. I have to say that I'm tempted to ignore him and take her without his consent. But am very aware that this will undo any progress we've made in couneslling. Although I have to say that his refusal to allow me to go with DD makes me think there is no real progress anyway :(

Bounty Fiirst of all :( at your position.
Then, as is often suggested here and on other threads, read your post as if you were being asked for advice.
It should be clear what an out and out utter tosser your FW is being
If that does not work, and you are asking:
No, any which way you look at at it, your FW is an out and out tosser.

And, FWIW, who the f* does he think he is with his 'allowing'?

bounty what a terrible position he has put you in. I think he is trying to alienate you from her.

She is your Mum - you know he is a FW. I know your mum may not be perfect, no one is but he is asking you to choose between him and her -only a FW would ask that.

Your choices are yours, I understand you are worried how he would react and what retaliation he would plan. I hope you can protect yourself as much as you can from his reaction if you go.

Your DD is not his property. Your Mum could take him/you to court for contact and would get it not that she would do this so it is seen legally as good thing your DD can continue her relationship with her grandparents even if you agreed with FW which I know you do not.

I would ask him so you are telling me what I can and can't do when I am spending time with our DD' - if he repliesyes' make a note - do what you want to do and move forward.

I am so sorry this has happened after a good holiday.

Haven't read anything other the bounty's post, wanted to reply quickly.

He cannot just say that you are not allowed to take DD. Even if he was being 'snubbed' by your mum (which he's not, he's the one doing the snubbing), he could say that he didn't want to go, but saying that you can't take DD is not on. So even if there was the tiniest glimmer of him being right (which there isn't) he's still being a complete arse by saying you can't take DD. She is not his to make commands like that about. And it is not your responsibility to facilitate a reconciliation when he has rejected any attempts at such anyway.

Sorry, that has made me angry (on your behalf) because it has brought up stuff for me. My FW similarly refused to allow me take DS2 as a small baby to see my mum and niece on my DS1's birthday (meaning I couldn't go, as was breastfeeding every couple of hours). Then assaulted me in our bedroom beside the baby's cot. I know you haven't been assaulted by him (yet), but your FW is being as twisted and abusive about this as mine was. It's nothing to do with what's right and what's wrong. It's just about control. His of you and DD.

Colin - lucky escape. Twice. Because the dating guy is a FW, but so is your ex, much more of one probably. It is possible to still love him though, and you will just need to work through that in your own way, which it sounds like you are doing. There will be up times and down times. We are here for both.

fool waving the bunting for all I'm worth for you.

thatsnot am at you having to sleep on the floor. I really hope you can get out soon, and yes definitely write it all down.

KouignAmann - I did read the PTA thread and think 'poor LemonDrizzled, she'll be getting a complex!!!

for all, cos it's Friday and I think we need them.

Thanks everyone. pony I was going to say that he would never assault me, but last night during our argument he swore at me twice and until now I would have always said that he would never swear at me either.

arthritic I've been talking to my one trusted friend about all of this this morning. She is gobsmacked by him. But asked me the same thing - what would I advise her if she was the one in my situation. And in that sense it is a no brainer. Anyone can see that he's not changing and never will and clearly sees both me and DD as his property.

Thanks all for the quick replies. You know how it is when you start to doubt yourself because they do such a convincing argument and then you think well maybe it is me in the wrong here ....

I was going to say that he would never assault me, but last night during our argument he swore at me twice and until now I would have always said that he would never swear at me either.

One word, bounty. Escalation. Has he ever touched you at all in anger - I mean like grabbing your wrist hard, pulling you from one room to another, blocking your way out of a room during an argument, giving you a little push while arguing, 'accidentally' barging into you? If not, I wouldn't be surprised to see these small violences creeping in if you stay. It's how it can start.

Where are you with your plan to leave now?

No pony he's always been verbally nasty but never physical at all. I'll keep an eye out for those creeping in.

I have a little idea in my mind. But I don't want to verbalise it as I find the pressure of knowing a deadline gets to me, he picks up on some subtle change in me and then finds out what I'm planning and scuppers me, or if I fail to act upon my deadline I feel like a waste of space and embarassed to come back on here. A bit like I've let everyone down. So yes I'm thinking about what to do next.

bounty you know he is wrong and trying to control you. yy to coming here for validation. But have faith in your judgement too.
And remember when it comes to holidays, one swallow does not a summer make. i.e. you don't have to feel guilty for being annoyed/disappointed now just because he was nice last week.

he should make an effort and respect your independence every day.

What do you feel like doing regarding the birthday?

Bounty beating yourself up is not allowed.
no one will judge you here for not getting rid on the double.
Most of us stayed for years and years - at least, I did.

bounty sounds like he's testing you. He's so clearly wrong (DD is not his possession! ) and on some level he knows this but wants to assert his authority. Just be careful... if you do go against him would he think (in his twisted mind) that he has an 'excuse' to escalate?

Hope that doesn't sound too negative! Posting on phone so can't read back

bounty I really wish I had you all, all those years ago for the validation - it is so confusing. I still get confused now, they are clever it is always a bit covert or has an element of truth in it, or catches you off guard - it's so hard. I have to keep pausing, catching my breath and just really looking at it for what it is - abuse and fwittery.
Pony the grab of the wrist was the first physcial thing. I hadn't responded well to something and when he grapped it, I ended up apologising.
Keep safe bounty If you can meet in the vixens tonight I could do with some company there later - feel battered and relieved to have made it to Friday.
I know for some of you the weekend is the hardest, if anyone has time to pop in the vixens later - I would love the company.
I want my time and energy to be put to better use than building fences and putting up a shield, ducking down, running, cowering, moaning, sleeping with exhaustion. I want to love and give.

better I will be around later, once DS2 in bed and dinner made. We can have a larf and some silly banter about non FWitty things. Sounds like you could do with it.

I have no idea what the first physical thing was for me. Poking, I think. He was very big on poking me. Although there was a lot of door slamming and fist-slamming-down-on-table and beanbags/cushions etc being kicked around the room and being shouted and sworn at right in my face before that, which I think is still termed as being physically violent, because he was deliberately physically threatening me. The undertone was 'I am slamming this door, but next it could be you. I am only just about holding myself back from hurting you.' One of my turning points was when I read in our local paper that a man had been arrested and charged for 'threatening behaviour' towards his partner. I had no idea that this was a crime! But anything that makes you afraid, puts you in fear (and thereby causes you to change your behaviour) is apparently threatening behaviour and the police can justifiably be called for that. He doesn't have to actually touch you for him to be arrested for threatening behaviour.

Sorry, rambling now... See you in the Vixens later.

Thanks Pony That is good to know - my Fw doesn't want to get into trouble so he takes things as far as he can and threatening and intimidation are his fabvourite tools.
See you in the Vixens later ... off to do my hair... now what should I wear?

I'll be wearing a slinky black number my enormous voluminous pyjamas and some fancy shoes known as slippers.

I might paint my nails though. Going out tomorrow night for a girly night. Hurrah, my first in a loooooooong time.

I have new PJ's I will treat you too if I can get DS to stops leeping with the top because it is fury
Yay! to the RL night out

pony and better count me in too. I might be along lateish but I will try and get there. I could do with a night out too. Sadly no RL one in the horizon for me, but a virtual one is even better as I can look gorgeous without even trying. Save a for me :)

arthritic thanks for reminding me that noone is judging here. I guess we all get so used to being judged.

thatsnot no not too negative. Just realistic. I still feel physically safe around him.

I Will get the hair chalk out. Give everyone some colourful streaks. think i shall go for green. and i am wearing my best blue trousers track suit bottoms and a fancy top enormous woolly jumper

I am going to sing 'where is my mind' on the karaoke.