Reaction to men and women on here

[Treen44444]

From reading threads on here, you tend to get differing attitudes, outrage, advice, on similar threads depending on whether its a woman or a man. For example:
Scenario:
On a post about a husband not being keen on sex at the moment. The woman started giving him oral, he wasn't enthused and it didn't go any further.
Responses:
He is a lazy lover/he should have said no/get rid of him.

A similar post where roles are reversed:

Responses:
You didn't say yes/you may have been raped/you shouldn't feel pressured in to sex/you don't owe him anything.

Scenario:
My husband is ignoring me.

Response:
He is withholding communication this is a form of EA. leave him.

Scenario:
Im not talking to my husband. I'm scared he will kick off if I tell him how I feel. (A valid reason for not communicating).

Response:
This is EA, leave him.

Scenario:
I want to leave my husband.

Responses:
Plan/organise/don't tell him/check finances/speak to solicitor, etc.

Scenario:
My husband left me. I've received legal documentation.

Response:
That's awful/it seems premeditated/he's been planning this behind your back.

The above are summaries and just examples. What I really want to know is whether you think if two sides of the same argument wrote in they would get conflicting advice(scenarios like above, not extreme cases)? Whether you would get fairer advice if you were non gender specific in your thread set up? Whether different sexes should get differing advice? Are some people too bitter to give a fair assessment?

Mamma - I agree. I'm just saying that if partner A is being ignored and seen to be withdrawing communication from partner B. (labelled abuse)
Partner A wont talk to partner B because they are scared about the reaction when they do. (Labelled abuse).
Only partner A posts. Gets whatever advise.
It's just that I have seen both partner A and B been favoured if they a woman and partner A and B chastised for being a man.

I'm not talking about serious cases

Thing is, it is frankly stupid to ignore the fact that we live in a world in which men are privileged over women. We live in a culture which tells women over and over again that they are freaks and failures if they don't have A Man In Their Lives, that relationships are 'hard work' while men are not told that if they are unhappy in a relationship they need to make more effort. Women are blamed for being too fat, too thin, too career-minded, wanting babies, not wanting babies, etc etc.

To take that favourite example of My Partner Doesn't Want (enough) Sex - when a woman posts this, it is usually clear from her posts that she has been patient, kind and understanding, that she has dieted, shopped for new lingerie, cooked special dinners, arranged 'couple- time' and the man has made vague promises of paying more attention to their sex life but has done nothing. When men post on the same topic, it is usually clear from their posts that they are pressuring their wives to have sex and not listening when the wives say that they would like more foreplay, or the man to do more domestic work, or to treat his wife with more courtesy. So different OPs get different responses. This site as a whole prioritizes women over men. That's good, because nowhere else does.

Solid - I find it the opposite but that is just on here. I haven't looked anywhere else. Which agrees with your later point. So I'm glad it's not just me that see the bias. People have kind of agreed but not as conclusively as yourself.
I know it's good that there is woman's forum, but do you thinks these kind of built in affiliations orbit being able to see each other views is partly why there isn't equality or relationships break down?
Do you think gender biased advise is rational or helpful?

Are you a man, treen?

No. I'm married with kids

I agree with OP, I see double standards on here all the time. I'm guilty of it myself, I advise my friends/ sisters etc very much as women not as people.

The same applies to anger. Women are seen as having a right to anger, and a right to shout etc. whereas men who raise their voices are labelled as abusive.

Treen take a look at this thread that i posted on recently. Id say it works out pretty much even.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1844308-Slept-with-someone-else-after-years-of-sexless-relationship-with-DP-Need-perspective

Agree with Solid.

I've noticed a disparity in responses to issues - but that's kind of parse for the course on a board dominated by women. I do think there are some overly-bitter responses, but the biggest problem I think is that people get advised to leave the bastard when they've only heard one side of the story - the OP doesn't generally tell her OHs view on things, so people don't hear why he acts the way he does. This is why relationship counselling is better than an internet forum for advice on whether you're going to dissolve your marriage or not.

Of course, advice on WA, solicitors, moral support, when the man has walked out, or posts on how to tell the truth about that deleted internet history - all those are invaluable. This place is a huge support network for women, and it should stay that way - but I wonder, out of interest, how many marriages are now on the rocks, or at least damaged, because the wife is reading innocent text messages, emails etc when the guy hasn't actually done anything wrong?

If a woman posts 'he's been snooping through my phone' the response is 'Paranoid EA bastard! leave him!' - but if a woman posts 'my DH has been a bit off recently the advice is 'snoop through his phone' - when the man may just be having a bad time at work, or worried about a lump he's found. Those posters don't come back and say they were wrong and were given bad advice - so all we see on here is the justified support, not the bad advice which may lead to divorces for encouraging unjustified behaviour.

Darke - that one is pretty cut and dry depending on your view of the term 'marriage' and how highly you value sex. I think most people would say to ask about an open relationship, others may value sex.
I'm talking about scenarios like in my OP or PN depression vs husbands depression, for example.
I agree with solid too, that there is a gender bias

Unbant - I would say that's true. I would say it happens vice vercer on men dominated forums. It's the ramifications that I'm concerned with. People say they should be less impressionable but I find if the general thread response is gender bias the OP tends to start to agree.

There's a certain amount of selective reading going on though too I think. There are virtually no threads which are as unanimous as is trying to be made out... This is the crap assertion that MN has some kind of hive mind reinvented in a more palatable way.

Offred - of course not. It's not tick box. There are majority views though on a thread. Where phrases are repeated. 'I agree with' its a general feel for the reaction on offer.

Morris - I'd agree. I think double standards are around. Both from men and women. But I'm not sure they are helpful.
I would disagree with the anger part though

I think this is really a point proving and largely academic exercise.

You will surely attract people to this thread who feel they have been personally slighted by the MN massive.

However, all I see on here is unsubstantiated, unprovable and intangible claims which importantly to me are coming across as designed to deliberately undermine support which is often very important for vulnerable women in, like SGB says, a society where there is little to support women.

Silly game to play with people's lives.

As I was trying to say and as SGB said better, women need the female bias on here. Although I seriously dispute the claim it is as strong as is being made out to be.

Some of the speculation on this thread sails close to implying that women should only be told LTB if he is an abusive bastard.

Also I have seen plenty of threads posted by men who got loads of support.

The ones posted by men that have been jumped on have created an air of suspicion, normally that the motive of the post is to invade the women being spoken about's source of support or because they are obviously just designed to be a wind up.

Otherwise there are massive amounts more posts by women than men and that is highly likely to skew perceptions in itself.

Some say snoop through his phone, others say don't, and a few believe if it's come to needing to snoop the relationship is already doomed. That is quite a good example of an issue arousing very polarised opinions. Others are more likely to be unanimous.

Depression is not so much gender biased usually; there's a lot of sympathy not only for posters with depression, but for their depressed spouses as well. The gloves come off, though, when the depressed person is behaving unpleasantly to their nearest and dearest and/or making no attempt to improve themselves. And frankly, the person most likely to be living in denial of having depression while everyone else tiptoes round them is a bloke.

And if you think women always come off best, just look at some of the mother/MIL threads!

Why assume it's always necessary to have both sides of the story before forming an opinion?

Some behaviour is unacceptable regardless of motivation.

For example, I'd still say LTB if someone had been hit by their partner regardless of whether they'd been drinking, suffered abuse as a child, or just had a bad day.

YY Offred.

Annie - I agree. There is great advise on here.
But if a man wrote a thread about how his wife with PN depression wouldn't communicate, she was distant, snappy, shows him no love, makes no effort with the children, doesn't do her share around the house. (For example).
Do you think the majority response would be to make ultimatums, start making precautions to leave her, speak to a lawyer about the kids, etc?

Offred - not' to only leave if they are abusive', but make it a clear option. Not tell someone too on such little info

I agree on the female bias but in my own experience that was exactly what was needed. The advice I received here was amazingly similar to the advice from WA. My views on relationships and what constitutes a normal relationship were hugely challeged by posting on here, I am not aware of any other forum quite like this one.

Changing - again I agree. I've stated this isn't about 'cut and dry' scenarios or extremely one sided scenarios

But treen. You haven't cited any threads so we can make up our minds. For ourselves.

You are making up imaginary threads and citing those in support of your argument.

Can you see now why it is silly?

In reality you would need to comprehensively study the threads and responses properly to form any real conclusions of any worth.

I don't think this thread, based on made up threads or impressions of some selectively chosen and selectively read and selectively remembered threads has anything to add to MN. Apart from being another thread which tries to undermine support for women struggling in difficult relationships.

And honestly men have the whole world... Just let women have MN...

Changing - so would I. And I have. I've said to LTB when the situation is clear cut, if it's not I withhold comment because I don't want to contribute to such as life changing decision if I'm not sure of the facts.

Personally I think it's a good idea to get a more complete idea of the story in cases where the situation may be ambiguous before casting judgement and giving what may be bad advice from a stranger on the internet which will affect people for the rest of their lives.

Yes, in those cases I'd rather wait for more details than come up with a stock response. But if someone is in danger, or constant misery, I'll yell LTB as loud as anyone else.