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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this normal or insensitive. Sex?

367 replies

Workwhatwork · 09/09/2013 09:43

I'm having a really shitty time right now with various things that are going on so I'm feeling quite low anyway.

Last night I was in bed with my boyfriend and I started trying it on with him. I was sort of cuddled up to his back and I started stroking his hair and back and kissing his back a bit, then touching him down there. I was running my hands up and down and then when I wernt to touch him down there again he blocked me with his arm so I took that to mean he didn't want sex and turn over to go to sleep.

He turned to me and said I was teasing him and started touching me down there. I wanted to have sex but I couldn't get wet and him touching me was hurting.

The thing is and I don't know whether it's just me, sorry for tmi, but I seem to be able to get wet more at certain times of the months, so just after my period I can't always get wet but just before I do. Sometimes my boyfriend hurts me when touching me, if he's trying to put his finger in me he will often miss by an inch or so and try to force it into the completely wrong place, he also uses spit as lube even though we have proper lube and I don't like it. Because of all this I think I've got quite jumpy especially when I'm not wet because I'm expecting for him to hurt me.

After a while of me not getting wet he started to go in a mood saying I was teasing him and obviously didn't want it as I'm not wet. I try to explain that just because I can't get wet doesn't mean I don't want to, and that sometimes it isn't just a case of sticking his hand down there for a fiddle and expecting me to have multiple orgasms, sometimes it is but sometimes I need a bit more foreplay.

It escalated into a row and he started doing over the top impressions of me jumping and saying "ooo, ooo, ahh, ahh" like a monkey as though that's what I was doing. I was a bit jumpy but it's because it was hurting and I was expecting him to try to shove his finger in where I have a wee like he often does. But apparently this is all my fault as he isn't doing anything different.

The other massve thing is, in the past, (we have been together 5 years), I have found out he has gone behind my back.

I've found out he's been on dating sites talking to other women. He says that this was when we had split up so almost doesn't matter. We were both on Facebook and he was chatting and flirting with women from chatrooms and stuff on there. He had a few younger women on there and when I asked who they were he said that they were girls from school who were a few years below him. He sort of joked that they would never look twice at him as they're too good looking (how's that supposed to make me feel) and that he'd only added them to make him look good. I also found out he had fake email addresses to use on dating sites. This was an ongoing thing over about 2 years and there were at least 10 different women I found him chatting and flirting with all from chatrooms or dating sites. I even caught him chatting with one the night after his grans funeral.

These are the things I found out, I of course don't know what else may have happened. But that I'm aware of nothing has happened since, he's no longer on Facebook and neither am I and he no longer has a computer or laptop aside from the one we share.

But last weekend I was looking through the photos on his phone. I never look at his phone so goes to show, but I was looking for some old photos of a concert we went to. And I came across a photo of a pair of boobs. No face just a top pulled up flashing the boobs, the photo was in downloads so I can only thing it was a picture message he'd been sent.

Of course I felt sick, asked him who it was. The story he gave was that he couldn't even remember her name, it was some woman from a dating site years ago and he didn't even realise it was still in the phone. But he tried to make out it wasn't a picture message but had been synced from his old laptop.

I told him to get out, it was over. But he wouldn't go, he seems to think that because it was all part of the things he was up to in the past and I'm supposed to have forgiven him, that I should just forget about it now.

But of course I can't, I don't trust him at all.

Then we went to a family party at the weekend. There was another woman on our table, a family friend. I started to feel as though he was making a particular point to speak to her. He rarely strikes up conversation with anyone and usually sits messing around with his phone but he kept making jokes to her, telling me to look at her phone case isn't it nice. Then I remember that she sent him a Christmas card last year and my name wasn't on it even though everyone elses were sent as couples.

This is how I've ended up as a result of what he's done in the past. Even if nothing is going on I feel as though he tries to get attention from young women to get an ego boost.

Sorry it's so long I just don't know what to think anymore.

OP posts:
SomethingOnce · 14/09/2013 10:44

he wasn't very sorry said I was basically making him out to be crap in bed and how it's hard to see what's what in the dark.

You don't need to be able to see. It isn't difficult to learn somebody's body by touch over five bloody years and most people want to make their lover happy, and would be upset if they hurt them.

This is not normal. At best, he sounds like he doesn't care at all about how you feel.

Everything you say about him makes him sound like an arsehole, and you're clearly unhappy; I am worried that you're not safe.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 14/09/2013 10:59

Remember, you can get rid of him so easily! He even has his own place to go to.

Most of the women who post about this sort of thing are married, pregnant, kids, no job, etc. You are completely free.

There's no reason to be with him.

ihearsounds · 14/09/2013 11:08

Kick him the fuck out.

He is doing what he is doing because he is an abusive, controlling pig. He doesn't respect you.
He doesn't give a shit about your feeling.
Al he cares about are his needs.
Pack his shit, and kick him out now.
Tell him that's it it's over.
There will be no discussion. Just take your shit and leave.
THere will be no negotiation.
He has two choices. He can take his shit and go. Or he can be removed by the police.

Change your locks.

Enjoy your freedom.

A nice man is out there for you.

They really, really do exist.

This cunt isn't a nice man.
If he was a nice man, he would have changed 5 years ago.
Caring man listen to their partners.
Caring men want to know how to please their partners.
Caring, nice, none fucked up, dirty men don't pick their arses. Any cunt who thinks that this is acceptable deserves to be alone forever.

MadBusLady · 14/09/2013 11:16

He is violent.

"so you want me to really lose it do you?"

Do you need a clearer warning than that?

ConfusedPixie · 14/09/2013 11:43

You repeatedly saying about him jabbing your urethra reminds me of my first boyfriend. It took me a long long time to come to terms with what he actually did to me but thsat was one of the things and I truly believed that he wasn't trying to hurt me, but he was. You have told him time and time again that it isn't where things are but he isn't listening. It's a control thing. He likes having control over you, he enjoys causing you discomfort and him reacting the way he does and putting the blame on you makes you doubt that.

My ex used to coerce me into sex, if I wasn't in the mood I'd force myself to be in the mood for him, or he'd keep playing around and poking even after I told him I didn't want to until I relented. If I said no outright he'd get into a mood, or would cry and tell me it proved I didn't love him. He'd play with me whilst I was asleep and try to start sex whilst I was sleeping. Etc etc. He also started to throw things around and threaten to "lose it" with me.

It's abuse. Abuse is not only physical, emotional abuse is part of it and sexual abuse is not only rape and rape is not only by strangers. And your partner sounds very similar to my ex in that respect.

Please please leave. He will scream and cry and beg, it might go on for weeks, but change the locks and if he refuses to leave, call the police.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 14/09/2013 11:59

I think you are still trying to understand why he does it. It doesn't make sense to you because you are a decent, rational person. Abusers prey on that.

He does it because he's angry. At himself, the universe, his father, whatever. But he can't face his anger. He can't even openly express it. He does sneaky things to torment you. So sneaky that you look crazy when you call him on it.

Why does he do it to you? Because you're the designated target. The thing he takes his anger out on. Some abusers target their children, or pets, or a vulnerable adult in their care. They feel gratification in their power over the target.

Workwhatwork · 14/09/2013 12:02

Sorry I know he needs to go. Last night I ended up sat on the floor sobbing. A pretty pathetic sight and he was sat there filming me and taking photos on his phone of me.

He said he was doing it to show me that it's not nice when someone is horrible to you.

Today he's like a different person and being nice as pie acting remorseful.

He's never hit me and I don't think he would. He has thrown and broken things, but I still can't help feeling as though maybe I've drive him to it. I did lose my temper when we bumped heads which seems a bit irrational now, but I was a bit in shock at the time it must have been pretty hard as I do have a bruise under my eye this morning and I think going downstairs was just a reaction to it.

I need to just find my way to end it.

OP posts:
Damnautocorrect · 14/09/2013 12:04

I'd love you to have a straw pole of people who have 'accidentally' had the wrong bit poked (well not that bit!)its never happened to me and I've slept with a few fellas.

His recent reaction shows his true self he should have been comforting 'oh shit I'm so sorry, are you ok'. Not stomping about blaming you. He should have been feeling guilty and apologising even if its an accident. He should be concerned his 'love making' hurts you, not blaming you.

Damnautocorrect · 14/09/2013 12:06

Ah cross post! Someone wiser will be along soon on the break up but I'd be packing his stuff when hes out (so he goes in one trip) getting a friend round and telling him its over.

Workwhatwork · 14/09/2013 12:10

The reason I ended up crying was because everything I was trying to tell him he just kept turning around on to me, and he was being very cruel for example saying he'll take my mattress when we split up because he paid for it. Not acknowledging that playing with his arse in the bath is gross as is what he does when touching me. I was exhausted as it was late and just slumped and sobbed. First he put his fingers in his ears then started taking photos and filming me.

But he acts so logical about it all as though he's got a good reason to do what he does. Yet today he's totally different asking to take me out for lunch.

It's so confusing and though I probably sound pathetic I feel so sad.

OP posts:
Workwhatwork · 14/09/2013 12:13

Sorry I know I'm rambling. I will sort it out.

OP posts:
ConfusedPixie · 14/09/2013 12:16

He was filming you crying? What a fucking wanker. That is just as horrifying as the rest of it to me.

Have you got a friend who you can call to come and keep you company? Somebody who can help you pack his bags and be your resolve to get him out of the door. Getting him out of the door is the biggest ting, and once you've done it, do not let him back over the threshold. Ever. Do not agree to meet up. Change the locks the day you kick him out. Change your number if you have to. Once you've shown that you won't take him back he may back off on the emotional side of things which makes it a hell of a lot easier.

Mine came crying to my house (of my parents house!) every night for two weeks. After that he gave up on the emotional bollocks and started following me instead, it was at that point that I realised I had made the right decision and I could see him as the pathetic cunt he was and it strengthened my resolve never to get back with him.

If you haven't got anybody who can come round and are near me, I would quite happily come with chocolate cake and bin bags.

YoniBottsBumgina · 14/09/2013 12:20

The airer thing is so clearly violent that it's scary. Hitting/throwing inanimate objects is one step away from hitting/kicking people (or animals if you have pets).

In fact this is worse because he threatened to throw it at you first. It doesn't matter if you believe he never had the intention to throw it at you - you could walk into a police station today and report that he held a clothes airer up as though he was about to throw it at you and he could be arrested because this is a threat. I am not suggesting that you should do this, just trying to illustrate how seriously it would be taken if you did - hopefully that brings some clarity for you.

Although this update makes everything so much more urgent - he's now shown you he is capable of being violent, so he has nothing to lose with you by actually crossing the line now - before I read it I was going to say that I am really concerned by your description of going off into your own fantasy world to disconnect from the sex you are having and manage to convince yourself you are enjoying it. In my experience doing this for a long period of time really fucks up your ability to actually connect with someone and enjoy sex for what it is - it's not irreversible, but it does damage your sort of instincts in this area and can make normal, healthy, loving sex difficult, this can take a long time to rebuild. I still have to sometimes consciously try to get back into the moment or ask DP to stop and go back a bit in pace so that I can get back into it. He has expressed sorrow that when I give him oral sex, it doesn't turn me on like it does to him when he does it to me (sorry for TMI) - this was because (and I haven't told him this because he would be devastated) I have so totally dissociated myself from that act that even now doing it with a loving, gentle, caring partner who I have a very strong emotional connection with, most of the time I feel nothing because during the crappy sexual relationship I had with my ex, I had to dissociate completely from it just to stand having his disgusting penis anywhere near me. I was only with my ex 2.5 years and I have been with DP for nearly 3, been split up from ex for 4 years.

Also going off into a fantasy world is a sort of protection from engaging in sex that you don't actually want - ie, in it's base form, it's protection from rape. Obviously I know you can't think of it/call it rape because he is totally unaware that you are unwilling, but once you start realising this it becomes very dangerous to have sex with him, because the intrusive thought that "this is basically rape" can interrupt your fantasy and then it becomes quite a horrible, frightening experience especially if you are afraid to tell him to stop (or think he might not stop if asked).

Just be careful :(

YoniBottsBumgina · 14/09/2013 12:23

Oh god he just sounds deranged :( Taking photos and videos of you when you are crying?

Sweetie you absolutely do not "drive him" to throw things around like a two year old having a temper tantrum. It is absolutely up to him how he reacts. I bet you have been angry at some point in your life and yet you don't go around holding airers up at people threatening them "You don't want to REALLY wind me up" or whatever he said.

YoniBottsBumgina · 14/09/2013 12:24

And fuck it, let him take the poo-encrusted mattress! You can get a nice new one which is all yours.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 14/09/2013 12:25

If you're near Oldham / Manchester I will come help you.
Let him have the mattress. Seriously.

He won't go easy. You are starting to wake up and stand up to him. He's going to try and get you back under his thumb.

Stop trying to get him to see your point. He never will. (Although he may come grovelling, claiming to, after you kick him out.)

He will always twist things and turn them back on to you. That's because every fight is about dominance. The particular issue is not the point.

Why do you think it's hard to get rid of him? What do you see as the main obstacles?

valiumredhead · 14/09/2013 12:26

Get him out OP, wait until he's out and pack his stuff and get the locks changed.

There is no reason for you to be with this man, practically speaking you couldn't be in a better position to get him out as he had his own place.

Just do it. He's one step away from hitting you. Seriously.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 14/09/2013 12:32

By the way, his behaviour is escalating because he can sense something is up with you. This thread over the past few days has begun to open your eyes and your attitude to him is changing. He can sense it and he's seeking to get you back in pocket.

You are in danger. When you don't do what he wants and go back to the status quo, he will be "forced" to escalate his shit. That's what he was warning you.

He will hit you, eventually..

For this reason, the breakup must be swift and decisive.

Workwhatwork · 14/09/2013 12:35

Thank you for the support, I'm from the midlands Katy.

I don't think that he will hit me as he's thrown things before but never gone any further however I know throwing and breaking things is completely unacceptable.

I hadn't considered whether the fantasising during sex was not normal. It's such a complex issue and more apparent recently.

I think the easiest thing for me to do right now is wait for him to go to work Monday and don't let him back I don't think I can face another fallout.

It's hard when he's being so nice now last night seems like a nightmare. Sorry if I'm not answering only I'm on my phone trying to write quickly as he obviously doesn't realise what I'm doing.

OP posts:
pumpkinsweetie · 14/09/2013 12:39

This man is abusive, i'm afraid that is all there is to it. You are excusing his behaviour as you have became conditioned to it but as you are a rational human you have started to see this as abnormal behaviour.

I have only just read this thread and i must say i'm shocked at how nasty he is in a way in which may be percieved as accidental (it is not)

5 years of being together and he still doesn't know where your vagina is and trys to penetrate you in the wrong place, and even after telling him, he carries on regardlessSad and then tells you it's your fault for not being wet enoughAngry, or that he can't see in the darkShock. This my love is sexual abuse.

He elbows you in your sleep, he lays on your hair, he 'accidentally' got you in your eye in 'his sleep'. And when you question him on it and run downstairs he challanges you on your behaviour! And then breaks the airer- again all abuse.

He asks you to bathe with him, only to use this special couple time to play with his arse hole and fart- just nasty!

He FILMS you whilst you cry and imitates you and berates you and also laughs at you- Emotional abuse.

Your family and friends don't like him, maybe they see through him.

Please see this for what it is, it's abuse there is no two ways about itSad. You need to leave and find your own two feet, you do not need a man in your life who manipulates, abuses, ridicules and hurts you from the inside and outside. You may think you need him, but you don't.

Being part of a couple and being in love should not include any of the above treatment, a loving relationship is about respect, love, and harmony. You will get none with this man and soon things may get much worse. How long before this touching you in the wrong area leads to full penetration in an area you have not consented too? (Rape)

How long before his hitting you in his 'sleep' becomes when he is awake?

How long before he throws an object at you rather than breaking it?

Please do not stand around waiting for the above answers and getting hurt all the more.

Red flags are waving at high mast, get out, you are worth more x

claudedebussy · 14/09/2013 12:40

classic abuse cycle i think.

trying to get him to see your point of view is pointless - he KNOWS it already and is doing it on purpose. he wants to carry on doing it so he's going to say and do anything and everything he can to continue abusing you.

hitting inanimate objects in front of you is a violent act, no doubt about it. he's making it clear that this time the airer has got it, but next time...

Vivacia · 14/09/2013 12:42

What help do you need in preparing for Monday?

YoniBottsBumgina · 14/09/2013 12:43

And also, even if his headbutting was an accident, you had a perfectly natural reaction. You shouted in shock and pain that he should be more careful, okay so you swore, but you were in a lot of pain so understandable. ALL OF THIS IS FINE. There is absolutely nothing here for him to even be slightly put out by.

Then you went downstairs which could have been either to get something cold to put on your eye, or just to get some space, because you didn't want him to see you upset, because you were feeling angry (pain does make people feel angry) and you didn't want to lash out. At least those are the reasons I would walk away from a person who had just hurt me by accident.

His reaction after this was the bizarre one. A normal person would have come downstairs saying "Oh my god I'm so sorry, are you okay?" and want to see to your eye to make sure it wasn't bruised or anything. Instead, he came down all defensive and angry - why? Confused And yet you are accepting his reaction as the natural one - no! Why on earth would he be angry that he accidentally hurt you and you shouted out in pain? Unless he hurt you on purpose in order to provoke you into a reaction? I know that sounds bonkers, but it's the only explanation that makes sense, that the whole situation was set up in order to give him an excuse to get all threatening over you. Otherwise what? He's really touchy about being asked to be careful when he's waving his giant head around twatting you with it? It doesn't make sense!

I think you have to come to terms at some point with the fact that his mental processes are so far removed from yours that you will never understand them and just go with the surface effects of the fact that it's upsetting you and it never seems to change no matter how many times you explain to him.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 14/09/2013 12:47

He's not hit you yet because he hasn't found it necessary to do so, yet. He's aware that actually punching you crosses a line, So he pretends to do things by accident. And, he's told you that you can push him to the point of losing it. When he hits you, he will claim you made him do it. He's daring you to "make" him hit you.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 14/09/2013 12:50

Yes. How can we help you plan for Monday?

I think it's a good idea to do it then because getting him out the door won't be easy.

So, what are you going to do on Monday?