More I should do or am I being a mug?

[flyingfarfalla]

This is such a horrible thing to say but it has got to the stage where I feel like DP is just tagging along in my life and I am at a loss of how to support him or whether I can/should.

He doesn?t contribute financially (I work FT which is quite stressful but am very lucky to have it and that it pays well so we are financially secure), with childcare (he found it a bit much looking after our toddler when we moved abroad ? which I appreciated? so DS (now 4) is in nursery each day and DP picks him up at 3 and looks after him before I get home and help out with bath and bed) and with looking after the flat which he felt was preventing him from looking for work (so I got a live-in helper who does the cleaning, cooking and shopping). He also doesn?t contribute emotionally (I never get a birthday, Christmas, valentine or mothers day present but always try and make the effort with him).

The main thing though is that he just doesn?t seem to want to do anything at all ever. Honestly, if he was filling the time with a study course, with starting a business, with volunteering, with a hobby etc which made him happy (all of which I have said I would support) I would support that. But he just says he doesn?t know what to do. He says he doesn?t have a ?thing? which makes me a bit upset since I can?t see why me and DS can?t be his ?thing?. (Who really gets to do their thing anyway ? I would love to live in the country and faff around with crafts all day for example but I can?t and accept that).

He also says that he would really like to get a job so that I have to work less but makes little effort to do so (I think he has applied for about 4 in 2 years). He says he feels he can?t do things as well as me but I don?t put pressure on him to do so and I try and boost his confidence ? tell him he is a good dad, that he looks nice etc. He spends most of his time looking at cricket on his bb.

Realising he may well be down or even depressed, I have tried to talk to him and suggested counseling but he says he doesn?t want/need that. When I try and discuss the future and what he thinks we could do to make him and both of us happier/have better job prospects/moving again etc ? he says he doesn?t know and he doesn?t have any ideas.

I have rather lost patience now. This isn?t a partnership and I feel like I am living with another child (although one that has less energy) that I am losing respect for. I feel like I want to cry most mornings and feel let down and sometimes cross. If I tell him I am unhappy he just sighs and says that makes him feel bad so I try and be upbeat as much as I can. I?m trying to be a good partner but am not sure I can love with so little coming back still. It?s not that he is taking advantage by spending lots of money or going out loads (in fact I wish he would go out or get a hobby) it is more death of a relationship through passivity and ennui. Am I being pathetic?

RichManPoorMan.

Let's hope we're all wrong.

RichMan

He is going to fail the 'Lantern Test' and sadly he will always believe that you dumped him for a paper lantern.

Keeping that image in my mind RichMan

deXavia - absolutely a covert test this one....IF he fails (will try and give benefit of doubt although currently he is still in bed and it is 9am here now so helper has taken him to playpark whilst I work from home today...WTF), then he won't ever know about it. It will just be an important switch flicking moment in my head.

I suspect the switch has already flipped. When this thread started I sort of hoped it was just a case of chivvying along - I guess projection on my side as we know friends here and I suspect the husbands could write similar posts
But as its developed it does seem to be more terminal and honestly even if he does the lantern I think it would be very hard to come back from where your thoughts are now.

I felt the same deXavia, this could have been me and I knew of quite a few trailing wives that fitted this bill, and i do think he is in a typical trailing spouse tailspin.

But it also became clear upthread that the issues around this relationship were occurring before the expat stint, it's just exacerbated them - so going back to the UK won't fix the relationship, and that IMO makes the path clear.

I wouldn't act hastily OP, until you've sorted out the legals though.
.

BTW i did a bit of reading around the topic, even in Singapore (the easiest Asian posting to find work) in 2011 only c 15% of trailing spouses found any work and that was quite often because the expat company helped out. IT is very difficult, many people thought skills would be very transferable but they aren't. It's all got worse since the recession. The "system" is designed for trailing spouses to look after the kids, and do unpaid/barely paid make-work to keep sane. SAHP cope far better, working partners are the most prone to depression etc. Many stints either end early or the trailing spouse goes home early. It's no picnic.

Gosh LazeyJaney, that is worse than I thought so useful to bear in mind, thanks, and Yup we are in Singers. Definitely tough going being an expat. I am definitely sympathetic but what i find most weird/annoying is that he says he WANTS to work (could be IT or events/conferences) but hasn't really TRIED to (so its not like he has been turned down by more than say 4 jobs so far and not even at interview stage and I doubt he has done the research you have). Likewise he will say he wants to do a course but then doesn't look into it, or he says he will start running and just goes twice or he seems to absolutely want to be with us but doesn't show it in way others might or I ask if he wants to leave and he doesn't seem to want to. Odd.

Flying... look at it from his perspective. Someone is paying all the bills to allow him to slob around. He doesn't even need to really do much to care for his own child - someone else picks that up too. And, even when suggestions are made and deadlines set for him to do something, nothing happens if he doesn't meet them, and things continue as before, allowing him a life of luxury when he can watch the football or the cricket without having a care in the world. There's nothing in it for him to change if that's the life that he's happy to have.

Not odd really, this current arrangement suits him no end. He has a cushy number. You bring in all the money and he is quite happy to do next to nothing, there are others to do these jobs for him. He is a master at saying one thing whilst really meaning another.

Where you are situated now is immaterial really, if he was in the UK he'd act exactly the same.

Still no lantern from him I see, no surprise there. You'll be the one making it for your son come Tuesday.

No, no lantern yet....

I see where you are both coming from but I don't think he really is entirely happy and loving it (but i agree I also haven't given him impetus to do much). He also doesn't have the kind of energy and drive to be a calculating person.But since he won't do anything about this to make himself or US happier I realise now i can't entirely blame myself for that or change him.

I think the expat thing makes a difference just because in the uk you wouldn't have the (frankly cheap) help. So the person at home may not wish to go back to work or be lazy but their spouse would have to earn a very big wage to afford the same level of help so they would still do the basics.

Where we are everyone has a helper, and quite a few spouses don't work and you see some genuinely lovely people just drifting along. Maybe they miss one school run, then it becomes a few times a week then its every day. I think if the tendency to procrastinate or be a bit lazy was there before then the expat life just magnifies it. It's very hard to explain how easy it is to become removed from real life - I guess why many people call it a bubble.

I think that your immediate solution might be to talk about no longer using the helper - I know that this is her livelihood, which makes it all the harder...

But for many people the less they do -the less they want to do, iykwim.

He sounds far more helpless than your child. The fact that you suggested the holiday, organised and paid for it, when you're not even going, says it all really. Let alone the fact that you offered to move to Australia and he cuoldn't be arsed to move a little finger to make that happen. Unbelievable.

You truly will look back in wonder at what you put up with.

Latr to this thread.

theothersideofthecouch.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/dealing-with-emotional-paralysis-long/

I dont know if this link will shed any light on things for you?

Hi OP, I see a different angle to this now, sice seeing the link about psychological paralysis and the post about the reality of being a trailing spouse.

My mother was a trailing spouse, in a different era, but she told me she could never understand why the others would sit together at coffee mornings or cocktail parties while the staff enjoyed the company of their children. She actually wanted to spend time with her dcs, often having others over to look after.

There is a point on these type of threads where I get to want to know how the children feel in all of this. Try to bear in mind how your son feels when both his parents can't or won't spend time with him. It may feel like rejection and that can be hugely damaging. Most parent go through a point where thay are so exhausted they just want a break, but ideally they should be wanting to spend as much time with them as possible. Perhaps explaining to dp how it feels to your son when Daddy prefers his own bed to him, might put it in perspective.

Any news on the lantern?

No lantern has been made yet but he did pick up a free one they were handing out at the shopping center and i think intends to use that!

However, I did have a much longer and bigger chat with him last night and we are agreed on moving back to the UK. He also did agree that he is rather paralysed and finds the imbalance really hard to deal with and i said I do too obviously. He desperately still wants a job and yet I checked and his linkedIn isn't up to date even so i still have some frustration as well as sympathy. He is definitely struggling though and I will send him that link tomorrow so thanks for that.

At least a move back to the UK will be better for me and DS and legal situation if things don't work but could also well be remaking of him and i think given uncertainty of what is going on his head, that will be fairest on him.

Hooray on the move back to the uk - I think that sounds like the best decision.

I think that you should carry on with giving him more responsibility, as obviously he needs to get used to this prior to coming back.

noobie...yes, definitely ds is a prime concern in this. Fortunately he actually gets to spend more time with his parents currently than when we were in the UK but I agree there is a difference when a parent is visibly choosing bed or being on their phone to interacting with them. I have been quite careful with what I say to him given his current potential state so haven't accused or pointed out some of these specific problems but talked more in the abstract about the impact on each three of us individually and as a couple and family unit if current situation continues. Will see how that goes.

Have tasked him with mortgage research for this week.

Delighted to hear you are moving. I recommend that you get yourself some counselling to try to understand why you are putting so much energy into making someone else happy at a cost to your own happiness. Reading Women Who Love Too Much is a good start. I know from experience that I did what you are doing because deep down I didn't think I was worthy of a loving partner who would support me. I generally went for men who needed me in some way. Its hard to admit but it did make me feel good when I was helping them. The thing is none of the men ever got off their arses anyway so all I was doing was trying to make myself feel better by being needed.

I saw a counsellor who gently suggested to me that being with men with no ambition or drive made me feel superior and worthwhile. This was not easy to hear but it was the truth. I am working on my self esteem issues and am determined that if I ever get into a relationship again it will be with someone who isnt broken and doesn't need me to fix them.

Mums on this site recommended the link below called baggage reclaim. It has some very excellent advice.
www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/do-you-understand-the-dynamics-of-your-relationship/

I wish you well and would love to hear that you have decided to focus on yourself for a change so that you don't keep getting into relationships like you are in now. You really do deserve a lot more. Good luck.

From your post of last Wednesday:-

"No sign of a lantern this evening when i got home but he did mention doing it to DS who has requested a monkey one so this could get interesting....plus there is all the Christmas planning just around the corner to do too!"

He could not even knock up a blooming lantern from scratch, the lazy arse. Your son will instead have to use this freebie one handed out at the shopping centre. Its a poor show isn't it?.

You already have one child, you do not need a second one to look after whilst you slog away.

I would put a crisp fiver on it as well that he does nothing on researching mortgages this week either.

I have to look at your own behaviour here; why have you allowed this to go on for so long. I think the response made by whitesugar actually has some bearing also in truth. I would also add that this man is not your project to rescue and or save, tasking him to do something makes him sound like you are the parent.

Depression is an illness.

Plenty of women get it too. Should they be left too?

Has he been diagnosed with depression?

Attila are you married? I often see you on the relationships board trying to prise people away from their marriages, yet I never see you speaking about your own relationship. I dont think that you have children either?

He has stated that he does not have depression and importantly is not willing to seek any help for this. Depression as well is a clinically made dx; not a default setting for lack of drive. Other posters have suggested similarly along those lines so why target me so?.

You may not like my opinion but I have every right to express it so please grant me that basic courtesy.

Whatever made you think I do not have children?. My relationship is fine thank you for asking and I am both married and a parent. I certainly do not prise people away from their marriages, whatever gave you that idea. Such an assertion is uncalled for and without any foundation as well as baseless. Many people on here as well who do write about problematic relationships usually have put up with same for a long time.