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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

More I should do or am I being a mug?

232 replies

flyingfarfalla · 09/09/2013 05:25

This is such a horrible thing to say but it has got to the stage where I feel like DP is just tagging along in my life and I am at a loss of how to support him or whether I can/should.

He doesn?t contribute financially (I work FT which is quite stressful but am very lucky to have it and that it pays well so we are financially secure), with childcare (he found it a bit much looking after our toddler when we moved abroad ? which I appreciated? so DS (now 4) is in nursery each day and DP picks him up at 3 and looks after him before I get home and help out with bath and bed) and with looking after the flat which he felt was preventing him from looking for work (so I got a live-in helper who does the cleaning, cooking and shopping). He also doesn?t contribute emotionally (I never get a birthday, Christmas, valentine or mothers day present but always try and make the effort with him).

The main thing though is that he just doesn?t seem to want to do anything at all ever. Honestly, if he was filling the time with a study course, with starting a business, with volunteering, with a hobby etc which made him happy (all of which I have said I would support) I would support that. But he just says he doesn?t know what to do. He says he doesn?t have a ?thing? which makes me a bit upset since I can?t see why me and DS can?t be his ?thing?. (Who really gets to do their thing anyway ? I would love to live in the country and faff around with crafts all day for example but I can?t and accept that).

He also says that he would really like to get a job so that I have to work less but makes little effort to do so (I think he has applied for about 4 in 2 years). He says he feels he can?t do things as well as me but I don?t put pressure on him to do so and I try and boost his confidence ? tell him he is a good dad, that he looks nice etc. He spends most of his time looking at cricket on his bb.

Realising he may well be down or even depressed, I have tried to talk to him and suggested counseling but he says he doesn?t want/need that. When I try and discuss the future and what he thinks we could do to make him and both of us happier/have better job prospects/moving again etc ? he says he doesn?t know and he doesn?t have any ideas.

I have rather lost patience now. This isn?t a partnership and I feel like I am living with another child (although one that has less energy) that I am losing respect for. I feel like I want to cry most mornings and feel let down and sometimes cross. If I tell him I am unhappy he just sighs and says that makes him feel bad so I try and be upbeat as much as I can. I?m trying to be a good partner but am not sure I can love with so little coming back still. It?s not that he is taking advantage by spending lots of money or going out loads (in fact I wish he would go out or get a hobby) it is more death of a relationship through passivity and ennui. Am I being pathetic?

OP posts:
KatyTheCleaningLady · 09/09/2013 12:24

LazyJaney If a man posted about his wife doing the exact same thing, I would have the same response.

I am sure it is hard to be the trailing spouse, but that's not an excuse to do absolutely nothing. To not even consider medical attention for depression.

cleopatrasasp · 09/09/2013 12:24

Lazeyjaney he isn't the male equivalent of a SAHM, he is doing NOTHING - not childcare, not housework and not paid work. He doesn't even have a hobby and has no interest in retraining or even doing courses in something he's interested in - which the OP has offered to pay for. On top of all that he doesn't even do birthday cards or decent sex!

As I said earlier, I know people who are ill and in chronic pain who have more get up and go - being a 'trailing spouse' is no excuse for being a lazy fecker.

QuintessentialOldDear · 09/09/2013 12:27

You never get a birthday or Christmas present.

No, you should not support him.

Lazyjaney · 09/09/2013 12:38

LazyJaney If a man posted about his wife doing the exact same thing, I would have the same response

I've been on MN long enough to know that though everyone protests that they would say the same, somehow the advice on reverse threads is always categorically different.

As it would be on one like this.

KatyTheCleaningLady · 09/09/2013 12:50

If anything , we would be more aghast at a mother who did so little house work and childcare.

hellsbellsmelons · 09/09/2013 12:58

I just cannot believe the word 'cocklodger' hasn't been used more on this thread.
Shock

QuintessentialOldDear · 09/09/2013 12:59

'tis because he aint using his cock....

AnyFucker · 09/09/2013 13:06

This bloke isn't the main carer for the child

Op pays for childcare while she is at work and he sits on his arse doing nothing

wem · 09/09/2013 13:30

From the OP's description her DH sounds utterly incapable of stepping up to care for his dc in the event of a split. I doubt he'd even want to, and would also be incapable of putting up any kind of fight if OP said she was taking her ds back to the UK.

wem · 09/09/2013 13:30

DP, not DH, sorry.

Original poster
flyingfarfalla · 09/09/2013 13:31

Thanks everyone. It is very useful to point out about the custody point. A real worry indeed and I will research some more on the point. If it got to separation then he would not have a visa to remain here anymore since it is attached to mine and I would go back to the UK. The fear that he could somehow take DS off to Australia for good is a pretty terrifying one and I imagine the fact that I might be able to take DS to the UK when DP may want to return to family in Australia would likely be terrifying to him. It would be pretty harrowing somehow either way and particularly for DS and it had crossed my mind and is another reason why I have been trying to understand this situation from DPs perspective and find ways to try and make it work.

It isn't actually a fear of being alone that scares me in this I just want to try and wave a magic wand and make everyone in the situation happy and am of course finally realising that I can't and that is quite a big deal however silly that sounds.

LazeyJaney - I do understand where you are coming from so it would be good to know what else you think I can best to do help him.

OP posts:
noobieteacher · 09/09/2013 13:46

Sorry if I worried you with my pessimistic and slightly paranoid outlook on life. But you hear of horrendous cases here where women have no right to bring their dcs back home. The law is massively complicated as far as I have seen.

However you don't really want to break up, I can see that and why not try and make it work? Remember life is a series of phases and one day may be the right 'phase' to start again, or move again (or separate). In the case of children however you will want to be settled by the time they are 9 or 10, wherever you want to be. Perhaps a long term plan with DP would be a push in the right direction? I know you mentioned that he doesn't want to plan the future but that could be your ultimatum?

Writing a Will is sometimes a good way of bringing a man down to earth with a massive bump. It also can be a good reassurance to both of you that you are in it for the long hall.

noobieteacher · 09/09/2013 13:48

Good point wem but you just never know and he has been fairly slippery so far. You also don't know his family's input.

AnyFucker · 09/09/2013 13:55

If your ds was born in the UK and has a british passport of course your dp can't bugger off to Australia with him Confused

KatyTheCleaningLady · 09/09/2013 14:00

A kick in the arse isn't breaking up, and is actually the kindest thing for him.

He needs to pull his weight and you must be willing to follow through on ultimatums,

Original poster
flyingfarfalla · 09/09/2013 14:00

That's useful noobie, especially about the age older children need to be settled. actually though my instincts are that I need to leave and better to sort sooner rather than later since I don't have huge confidence in real change anymore. However for a move like that which would have such a big impact on others and which I would be instigating, I need to feel i have done all I can first. this will be a massive shock to him at a time I think he genuinely is vulnerable. I always get OTT worried about other peoples feelings and trying to make them happy...usually not a bad thing but i think in this case it has made it a bit more convoluted than perhaps should be and not really worked for anyone.

OP posts:
Original poster
flyingfarfalla · 09/09/2013 14:02

anyfucker - ds also has an Australian passport and his surname.

OP posts:
noobieteacher · 09/09/2013 14:03

If I was religious I would say 'Bless you'. But bless you anyway.

Do take AnyFucker's advice from here, she will keep you on the straight and narrow and give you the perspective you might need. Smile

noobieteacher · 09/09/2013 14:05

Pretty sure she's not an expert in International Law though... Wink

KatyTheCleaningLady · 09/09/2013 14:06

But it's not Saudi Arabia. He can't just disappear with the kids.

And if you go to UK, he can still follow and be nearby. Is that where they were born and lived before?

You can take him back to UK and give him an ultimatum there. At least in UK he can take on a menial job if that's all there is.

dreamingbohemian · 09/09/2013 14:09

tbh I think you should quietly get some legal advice on what would happen with custody if you split. Your case is pretty complicated. And fgs don't say anything to him about anything until after they are back from Australia.

I don't want to scare you but common sense often does not apply in international custody cases.

deXavia · 09/09/2013 14:10

You're right this would be a big split - just the countries involved mean that any separation and custody discussion is complex. Whilst I can see your logic of taking your DS back to the UK - remember others may see it as he has been the main child care (regardless of live in helpers) and why should he move to the UK instead of you all move to Australia - especially given dual nationality. I'm not suggesting he is in the right - but just posing the question from the opposite view.

I absolutely get that you need to feel you've done everything you can to "solve" the problem. But in reality all you can do is be very clear to him about exactly what the problem is and he has to be prepared to make changes. Is there a friend or family member in Australia who he will see on vacation who could talk to him? Or would you be worried they would all start encouraging him to leave and look for custody?

Do they have couple counseling where you are in Asia? I know its much rarer than the UK. Would that be a good way to start things rather than pushing him about depression?

dreamingbohemian · 09/09/2013 14:17

It's not about disappearing.

The child has dual nationality. If they split the DP has to leave the country, so will have to go Australia or Europe. The OP says she wants to go to the UK. There is nothing legally that says any one parent has more right to take the child, so they would probably look at things like income and who has been taking care of the child up til now. It's not a straightforward case.

Sorry, obviously this is jumping forward many steps, but it may be better for you legally to stay where you are if you split. Then it's up to DP to try to arrange some kind of visa based on parental rights, rather than you having to convince a judge to let you take DS to the UK.

But I'm not an expert so would really suggest getting some professional advice. It may help you figure out how to go forward with DP (for example maybe you could convince him that you should all go back to the UK together to give it another shot, so at least you are in a better position if you do split up down the line).

AnyFucker · 09/09/2013 14:20

No, I'm not an expert in international law,, but you hadn't mentioned that your ds has dual nationality Smile

You do need to take legal advice, but do not use possibly unfounded fear about this issue to stop you tackling the situation

dreamingbohemian · 09/09/2013 14:24

No I agree, don't stay with him just because of legal issues. But you have to be really clever and strategic about these things, and knowledge is power.

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