Gutted: Is this the begining of the End?

[Contrarian78]

I've happened across these pages by accident (looking for a review of something I was buying) but have read with interest the advice that's given.

I'm a mid-thirties (34) male who is married (9 years) with two children (7 and 3). My wife and I have been together for 16 years and have, up until recently I think, always had a pretty solid relationship.

The one area we do seem to struggle with though is sex. Our sex-drives are massively mis-matched. I try to be understanding and of course we always march to the beat of her drum - which I sort of accept (even if I resent it a little) as there's nothing that would turn me off more than knowing she's doing it out of a sense of wifely duty - we fell into that trap (and never really got out of it) after our son was born.

My wife and I both work full time and split domestic duties evenly (honestly we do!). Having recently realised that we were in real danger of going our separate ways, we have decided to make more of an effort. She acknowledged some things - which was great, and I've made a real effort to not pressure her and be more romantic.

The 'problem' now is that it all seems a little 'forced' it doesn't quite feel natural. I sympathise with her becasue she's damned if she doesn't and damned if she does, but it feels like she's making more of an effort in order to protect the lifestyle we have and not disrupt things for the sake of the kids. I apreciate that, but I honestly don't think she'd choose me if we met today.

This is all made harder because I still fancy her rotten and she's such a kind person. Certainly I'd never cheat on her (we've only ever been with each other) but I do sort of wish that she wanted me as much as I want her. She admits she's not a particularly sexual person. We've done some pretty amazing stuff over the years (though I always feel I have to push it) but it's only when she's had a drink - which makes me a little sad if I'm honest.

Sorry for the long whinge off. It's sort of cathartic to get it off my chest. I feel bad becasue she's lovely and we have really made a good life for ourselves. But at what point might you realise that a split is inevitable?

Changed my mind after that last post about you.

No one needs to get grumpy because they haven't had sex for a short while.

Don't come here and joke about lighting tampon strings. Ugh.

I agree with what Geppa wrote. I think your wife would be better off separated from you. She'd still get your support in terms of raising the kids but without the pressure to have sex with you or suffer the consequences.

Hmm. Do you wank, at all? If you don't then it is time you learned how. There's not much truth in the idea that 'testosterone build-up' will lead to you going mad, you know - and if there were any merit in that idea at all, then a wank would save you.

I'm another one who is losing sympathy with you after your pathetic tale of doing allllll the housework for TWO WHOLE WEEKS before you got your dick wet. Though I bet you were waving it at her, at least metaphorically, every single day of that fortnight. If she is having sex with you as a way of getting a temporary respite from your sighing and frowning and hovering around her with twitching fingers, then it's no wonder she's getting less and less enthusiastic.

maybe you need to change your technique? The sex you used to have was amazing for you but she had to get drunk to do it. maybe she wants to feel more loved and cared for than just having wild out-there sex.

Definitely, in my opinion, sex like they do in porn is a real turn off after a while.

You say "but I honestly don't think she'd choose me if we met today."

why do you think that is?

GeppaGip: I sometimes think it would be easier if she asked me to leave. I should say though, this isn't "shorish term" this has been going on for years. It rears it's head (seriously) once a year I'd say.

It's become more of an issue lately because:

a) she complained that I didn't share my feelings (I have now and I think she finds that worse - I've turned into a Dr. Phil type); and

b) I've been lurking on these boards which has (I think added to my dissatisfaction.

We have such a great relationship otherwise. We don't just tolerate each other (though perhaps we do very very ocassionally). And people often comment that we make such a good couple. We laugh together (alot actually) and are quite tactile. My complaint (which will seem trivial to some) is magnified by the fact that the relationship otherwise is alive and kicking.

I have considered that it could be years before I found someone else, and I think it unlikely that they'd live up to my wife in many other respects. But there's a difference between not being desired because you don't have a partner, and not being desirted by your wife.

Why would the two weeks of doing everything annoy you? It's not as if I don't do more that my fair share anyway. I was annoyed as I felt she was clutching at things becasue she felt she had to say something other than "I'm just not that into you" Which would have been devestating, but honest.

Look, she doesn't complain about not feeling loved, desired, cherished. She acknowledges that I do my fair share of domestic duties. She acknowledges that I'm a good husband/father/provder.

Lord knows I'm not perfect (this whole sex thing is the biggest issue) but we're well suited in every other way.

As for "lighting tampon strings" I'd have hoped you'd have realised that my tongue was firmly in my cheek. Although this is a serious matter (for me at least) it doesn't hurt to inject a little humour into proceedings. I meant no offence, but didn't honestly think anyone on here took themselves so seriously as to get offended by something like that. It's good to laugh sometimes

"We've discussed separating (she's suggested it)"

I think the bits about doing everything for two weeks etc were seen as 'annoying' because it could be perceived as not being genuine about taking pressure off, but performing like a seal/dog for a treat. Which isn't the same thing.

I hope you see I'm not saying this to be negative towards you, but because I've made the same mistake myself and found myself in the same confused/frustrated state. "Well, what the hell else could I do?" . It's not necessarily about doing more, but about doing less iyswim.

I moved out (very briefly - a week) this year. She asked me to come back. I wanted to, so I did.

Unfortunately Contrarian I am starting to sense an element of entitlement in your more recent posts, and that will result in you losing your objective support on here.

Even if you feel an entitlement - which we all do in the sense that we feel entitled to be loved and sex is a manifestation of that - that entitlement is not based on you doing more than your fair share. It's more about complete acceptance of the situation and support and understanding of your wife's pov.

Again I don't think this will improve, and think you should both consider your alternatives.

Thanks CaS.

I don't think I'm an unreasonable bloke. When there's something like this going on in a relationship it does (in my case/experience) consume you. I can't say it often enough: MY WIFE IS NOT NASTY/UNREASONABLE (all the time). Something that's probably quite minor, becomes a really big issue - becasue it doesn't get dealt with.

I can see that p0rn star sex everyday of every week would become an issue, and I haven't asked for that.

In answer to a previous poster, my wife has (when asked) said she'd choose me (I wan't sure if she would).

Why did you move out and what were the terms of you returning?

What is it you actually want to hear?

You started by asking if a split was inevitable - well, you've answered that, neither of you want to so that's that.

Or you want to know of you cheating is inevitable? Only if you choose to. But then if you felt it was going that way then your choice to stay was a pretty fucking selfish one.

I'm struggling to understand what you want from this thread.

There's loads of little things you're saying now that are weird, you stroke her but get no enjoyment from doing so? This woman you adore and desire? You pay the mortgage? She works too matey, or is her job just a frivolous little hobby to keep her in shoe money?

It's not a sense of entitlement. An expectation yes - but I think that's slightly different. My wife is entitled (and probably has an expectation) to believe that I will provide for her physical, emotional, financial and sexual needs. She tells me that I do this. She really is satisfied with the realtionship - aside from the fact that for a day or two a month, I'm Mr. Grumpy Pants.

As someone alluded to. If the boot was on the other foot.........

Lastly, I apreciate the support; and I've been provided with useful snippets that will allow me to move the conversation along and (in some cases advance my argument) That said and the same is true of any of the advice/support people receive here losing or gaining objective support isn't necessarily going to make much difference. I think I've been more honest that most in explaining my own part in this. I could, as previously stated, been a little less candid and garnered (I imagine) lots of support. What good would that do in the long term.

I do find the discussion useful. I don't want to be flamed, but I 'm a big boy and can be told when I'm in the wrong.

Actually, I've heard what I want to hear (I think) which is that sticking with it won't be an unmitigating disaster - and that things can/may improve. (of course they may not).

I guess I was hoping for a magic bullet, or perhaps an approach we haven't tried (we can't be that unusual).

My wife likes having her feet stroked (probably not that unusual). I don't derive any direct enjoyment from doing that, other than that she enjoys it. I like that she likes it - so I'm happy to do it (and don't need to be asked).

Yes, I pay the mortgage. My wife is a professional and earns what I would say is an average wage. I don't in anyway demean her (or her career) ut her money is used for discretionary spending - for her and the kids mainly. An arragnement I'm broadly happy with.

Hi.
Not sure if I read it right.
Did you say that you doing all the chores didnt make a difference to anything.[I was thinking that maybe she is generally tired].

And couldnt make out whether you were saying that she does have sex sometimes even when she doesnt particularly want to.
And here I may get flamed but who cares.
Because, imo, whoever of the couple wants it more often, the one who wants it less often should do it a bit more.
It is like having a need and not a want.

And imo, that does indeed help to "keep the show on the road", the other recipient is very happy with that and grateful, and it is not that hard or difficult really is it.

And I dont see why the recipient needs to feel that it is forced. That attitiude isnt going to help.
It shouldnt be a forced transaction from the other side. It should be a giving transaction. A good thing.

Though what I am getting from you op, is a slight, "I dont then feel loved" emotion. Which if isnt true, shouldnt be there. iyswim

Advance your argument? To what end? Cos there is no conclusion to that which doesn't further contradict your own description of yourself and your motivations.

Never mind. Good luck!

That's true. I just feels like there should be some resolution - which more than likely is me having to accept that I'll march to the beat of her drum. I'm boing quite phylisophical about it today next week might be different

Hi Contrarian, I have read through this post with interest, and it's great how honest you have been with your answers.

I have a question about this "mr grumpy pants" scenario. Do you think what you are doing while you are mr grumpy pants could be considered as stonewalling? Have a quick google if you are not sure, there is loads of info online about stonewalling, and the way you describe this atmosphere in the house rings some bells with me.

If you are stonewalling your wife when she doesn't have sex with you, then this can be very damaging for your relationship, but perhaps it could be something you could both have counselling for and get through?

I don't think your situation is an unusual one, but I think that life would be quite miserable for your wife if she feels that to avoid the emotional abuse that is stonewalling she has to have sex with you. It can become a horrible cycle if your wife is feeling emotionally abused by your stonewalling, but in order to get her metal health back on track, and to stop you emotionally abusing her, she has to have sex with the very person that is causing her emotional distress. It can be that partners in this situation end up having emotionally detached sex, to break the other partners mood, as having emotional sex in their current distressed state would be too much to bear.

I'm not saying that I have evaluated your situation and decided that's how it is. But I just thought I would mention it in case it matches your situation at all.

What do you think? Is stonewalling a factor in your relationship?

I honestly don't think it is. I asked her the other day if she felt I was emotionally abusive (a term I'd come across here) but she said that she didn't think my behaviour constituted emotional abuse - just that I was sometimes an arse.

The whole situation is very cyclical. When it's good, it's very good, but when it's bad. I don't stonewall her as our domestic arrangements are such that it wouldn't really work.

Contrarian, are you sure you're not my husband, he certainly could have written your OP (although our children are younger).

At the moment I have no interest in sex, with DH or anyone else. I'd be devastated if DH left me because of it. Our marriage is going through a bad patch but we're both keen to resolve it. I hope you both can too.

Well you being grumpy because you're not getting sex is the passive aggressive approach and will be obvious to the kids as they get older. It's not helping. You know what the deal is.

Take some control over what you want in your life here. Of course she doesn't want you to leave! She likes the lifestyle and doesn't want to be a single mother! She's worried about not putting out at all in case you leave to be with someone else. That, OP, is called keeping the door open for all the wrong reasons.

Just make a decision and OWN it... quit with the foot rubs and the being good: they're not going to lead to someone who doesn't want sex wanting sex!

This situation is not sustainable for you in the long term, it really isn't. Or rather, unless you factor sex out of your life and accept your lot, it isn't.

I'm keen to work through this too.

I've come in (perhaps rightly) for a bit of a flaming on here, but I'd hope that people appreciate the candour.

I take some comfort that others are going through similar (even though I'm sorry that they are).

My wife would be devestates if she knew I'd been on here discussing this; however; I'm sure she'd prefer this than me having an affair or doing some of the other things I've read on here. Am I a bit of a knob? Probably. Do I want to work this out....definitely.

I hope you resolve it. Stick with it. I hope some of what I and others have put is useful.

you mention your contribution to the finances rather a lot. Does she pay any bills? You say you are broadly happy with this.

Can you elaborate?