Gutted: Is this the begining of the End?

[Contrarian78]

I've happened across these pages by accident (looking for a review of something I was buying) but have read with interest the advice that's given.

I'm a mid-thirties (34) male who is married (9 years) with two children (7 and 3). My wife and I have been together for 16 years and have, up until recently I think, always had a pretty solid relationship.

The one area we do seem to struggle with though is sex. Our sex-drives are massively mis-matched. I try to be understanding and of course we always march to the beat of her drum - which I sort of accept (even if I resent it a little) as there's nothing that would turn me off more than knowing she's doing it out of a sense of wifely duty - we fell into that trap (and never really got out of it) after our son was born.

My wife and I both work full time and split domestic duties evenly (honestly we do!). Having recently realised that we were in real danger of going our separate ways, we have decided to make more of an effort. She acknowledged some things - which was great, and I've made a real effort to not pressure her and be more romantic.

The 'problem' now is that it all seems a little 'forced' it doesn't quite feel natural. I sympathise with her becasue she's damned if she doesn't and damned if she does, but it feels like she's making more of an effort in order to protect the lifestyle we have and not disrupt things for the sake of the kids. I apreciate that, but I honestly don't think she'd choose me if we met today.

This is all made harder because I still fancy her rotten and she's such a kind person. Certainly I'd never cheat on her (we've only ever been with each other) but I do sort of wish that she wanted me as much as I want her. She admits she's not a particularly sexual person. We've done some pretty amazing stuff over the years (though I always feel I have to push it) but it's only when she's had a drink - which makes me a little sad if I'm honest.

Sorry for the long whinge off. It's sort of cathartic to get it off my chest. I feel bad becasue she's lovely and we have really made a good life for ourselves. But at what point might you realise that a split is inevitable?

What is grot?

This may be CONTROVERSIAL but I don't think you playing with yourself is her business. She can't have it all her way - she doesn't want to sleep with you but doesn't like you getting some kind of satisfaction on your own?

I know it doesn't meet emotional needs - I know this only too well - but surely it would stop you grumping around like a swollen testicle?

I wish I could unsee that mental image

Contrarian you don't have to show her every time you have a quick one you know. Unless you have the same approach as a cat bringing a trophy mouse home, in which case that wouldn't go down too well I'm sure.

whosshe: she was devestated. She cried alot - I did too if I'm honest - but she couldn't/wouldn't offer up any explanation/fix.

DF: I suggested it - not too long after we had the very brief separation. She point blank refused. I sort of came to the view that it was pointless becasue even if I did make a decent case (and she's of the belief that I could 'out-argue' her) it wouldn't necessarily change how she feels. The 'best' I could hope for is that an objective party might say that I'm not being unreasonable - which would obstensibly leave the door open to me leaving - which isn't what I (or she) want(s).

I second the hormonal pill point - my sex drive disappeared completely for YEARS. Not being on the pill for six months for an unrelated reason opened my eyes (and a few other things) and I'm now the happy owner of a copper IUD and OH is a much more satisfied man. We are still mismatched in terms of frequency but he's often happy with a 'ahem' helping hand instead.

I think you'd be better off telling your wife exactly how you feel, op than avoiding her and getting grumpy, but before you can't talk in a calm manner! The fact that she's not keen on you doing a bit of DIY shows she does care, can't see how else that could be interpreted...could be the new fulfilling job will help.

Lois - the OP probably doesn't want to end up wanking because he has a wife!
Some men have this curious, weird, male idea that when they get married regular sex will be on tap for the duration of their marriage, barring illness. They believe that marriage = a long term partner for love making and sex (among many other things). How utterly naïve and stupid of them!
He may well have wanked himself stupid before he got married and doesn't want to end up at square one again.
Men need courses on what marriage and living with a woman and having children is actually all about. Their sexual expectations are way off.

I think sometimes the wanking becomes a secondary issue for the wife in this situation. It just adds to the weird cycle. Wife feels shitty because husband is being an arse, because she didn't have sex with him, it feels like her fault because of the passive aggressive behaviour she is receiving.

Wife now feels double shitty because husband is wanking to porn, which she doesn't like. Wife now feels extra shitty, as she feels she is creating this problem by not having sex, and now inadequate, and replaced by a porn wank, and also has to deal with mr grumpy still.

Maybe that's why the wanking discussions get a a bit strange. It's not just about the wanking for her, but rather an extension of the problem she feels she is creating, and that the grumpiness is making her feel like is all her fault for rejecting the sex in the first place.

If she is being made to feel like your happiness, and the house atmosphere, is all hinged on her having sex with you, then maybe if she's not a wanking fan then you wanking to porn just makes her feel worse.

Almost like, because you didn't have sex with me, I 'had' to have a wank over some porn, that I know you don't like.

I dunno, I find it odd that she's proprietorial over your penis and doesn't like that you wank. Surely it's better than cheating on her, or having you walking round in testosterone hell doing the housework? Just do it in the shower like most men...

I think the posts about self-gratification not being the same as sex are fair.

Not because one is (physically speaking) necessarily better than the other, but because doing it KNOWING that you're doing it only because it's a second best option because you've been rejected by your partner can be pretty horrible.

tmi possibly but when in an actively sexual relationship, the 'personal' stuff can actually happen more often than when you're in a sexually deprived relationship. Unhappiness does not lead to horniness.

I don't know why there has to be a discussion about wanking. If it's done privately (shower or toilet or whatever), why even mention it?

It is absolutely not the same as loving sex, but wouldn't it be better than nothing, under the circumstances?

She doesn't get to be proprietorial, of course not under the circs. But whosshe you've hit the nail regarding her reaction. It's the wank guilts.

Joanbakes boys should absolutely be told that sex on tap is not guaranteed... in any relationship, be it LTRs, short ones, whatever. We're only human. People change and we're not machines. Life just happens. Maybe people learning this at a young age would help people see that there are other possible ways to live and bring up children that may be less restrictive....

She's been off the pill for (about) five years. Not really too sure if it made a difference or not. She did try the implant - which was horredous and a couple of other pills - in my opion she never stayed on anything long enough to give it a chance. It's her body though, and I respect that. If I could take a pill - I would.

Also - and I apologise if this is too much information, she gets the hump if (after we've finished) there isn't sufficient evidence that I've had a good time and left a suitably generous deposit not that she cleans up like they do in the movies - it turns out we watch different sorts of movies!! (THAT LAST BIT WAS A (BAD) JOKE BY THE WAY)

wank guilts

sometimes I'm really glad not to be in a relationship

Contrarian - she gets the hump if you haven't produced enough jizz? She needs to get over herself a bit.

the bad jokes are doing you no favours at all to be honest.

What? Sorry, I assume the crossed-out bit was the joke and the non-crossed out bit wasn't?

So it presumably normally goes somewhere 'noticeable' (ie externally) and she gets cross if there isn't enough?

That sounds quite odd to me.

In fairness, I often use humour inapproriately - usually to defuse an awkward situation it usually makes it even more awkward

On a serious note though, I'm painfully aware that watching grot could seriously skew your perception of what's normal/reasonable. That's something I'm definitely mindful of. Don't get me wrong, I do like to do the p0rn star thing once in a while - but don't want anyone thinking that I'm going for that sort of thing 3 times a week.

It is odd, but I think it's her way of saying........ "I know what you've been up to"

If she says "there's not alot there" I challenge her to lick it up. She doesn't. and I get to sit on the naughty step

I have this image of Mrs Contrarian regarding a paltry offering on her bosom and shouting "YOU'VE BEEN WANKING AGAIN!".

She actually says "there's not a lot there"?

That's about it! but it doesn't happen that often - it just has happened.

God it feels strange talking about this.

Contrarian, there seams to be a sea of sex issues here! You get the hump if you don't get it when you want it, she gets the hump if you wank over porn, and if you don't make a big enough deposit when you actually do have sex (maybe cos she thinks you have used it all up wanking over the dirty porn she doesn't like).

She doesn't like porn, only feels uninhibited enough to have porn star sex when she is drunk, and has a much lower sex drive than you. (I don't like porn either btw, I'm not saying that not liking porn means you are frigid, before anyone pulls me up on that one).

Perhaps her sex issues run deep, maybe she has been made to feel ashamed of her body, or doesn't like her body post childbirth. Or maybe it was the way she was brought up. Maybe she is worried that she will be expected to discuss these things at counselling.

Are you able to discuss that sort of thing? Though maybe a discussion along those lines will just make her feel worse...

"God it feels strange talking about this"

Funny that.