Gutted: Is this the begining of the End?

[Contrarian78]

I've happened across these pages by accident (looking for a review of something I was buying) but have read with interest the advice that's given.

I'm a mid-thirties (34) male who is married (9 years) with two children (7 and 3). My wife and I have been together for 16 years and have, up until recently I think, always had a pretty solid relationship.

The one area we do seem to struggle with though is sex. Our sex-drives are massively mis-matched. I try to be understanding and of course we always march to the beat of her drum - which I sort of accept (even if I resent it a little) as there's nothing that would turn me off more than knowing she's doing it out of a sense of wifely duty - we fell into that trap (and never really got out of it) after our son was born.

My wife and I both work full time and split domestic duties evenly (honestly we do!). Having recently realised that we were in real danger of going our separate ways, we have decided to make more of an effort. She acknowledged some things - which was great, and I've made a real effort to not pressure her and be more romantic.

The 'problem' now is that it all seems a little 'forced' it doesn't quite feel natural. I sympathise with her becasue she's damned if she doesn't and damned if she does, but it feels like she's making more of an effort in order to protect the lifestyle we have and not disrupt things for the sake of the kids. I apreciate that, but I honestly don't think she'd choose me if we met today.

This is all made harder because I still fancy her rotten and she's such a kind person. Certainly I'd never cheat on her (we've only ever been with each other) but I do sort of wish that she wanted me as much as I want her. She admits she's not a particularly sexual person. We've done some pretty amazing stuff over the years (though I always feel I have to push it) but it's only when she's had a drink - which makes me a little sad if I'm honest.

Sorry for the long whinge off. It's sort of cathartic to get it off my chest. I feel bad becasue she's lovely and we have really made a good life for ourselves. But at what point might you realise that a split is inevitable?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality

Could your wife be asexual? If she was, is that something you could accept?

There are different kinds of love and I think a lot of people who have been married for quite a while come to understand a different sort of relationship that isn't as focused on sex.

I really like this post that explains it better than I could:
atlas by U A Fanthorpe

I think StraightJacket has it. Basically if she's never masturbated alone, like ever, you have to consider that possibility. The upside there is that she doesn't not fancy you because you're not fanciable but because she's not sexual.

You're not unreasonable OP but you need to accept that you two are not compatible sexually. There's no real point in having a discussion along the lines of 'we have to do something about this or I'll look at my options'... she clearly can't do something about this. As you've realised, you've both tried and it's just forced. If she doesn't want sex, she doesn't want sex.

Why did you shut down the conversations about possibly separating? After all, she was the one who brought that up, even though it's not what she wants. It's a proper, workable option and you need to go further down that line of discussion in my opinion.

Your only other option here is to accept that this is way it'll be and that you're staying for the greater good or whatever. That's the reality.

I also think this cant be resolved as such.

This is her, this is how you feel I honestly don't see how it could change.

Don't feel that it's too trivial to end the marriage over. This sort of dynamic has such an effect on you as a person, it's not just about sex.

I agree with Helltotheno.

I was married for 25 years and had exactly the same issues as you Contrarian. In fact almost every statement you made resonates with me, such as each other first lover, she never masturbated, talking never progressed anywhere etc. Since I met my current partner. I have realised how incompatible we were. We (exW and I) still get on well, but the separation was absolutely the right thing to do. It hurts at first of course, but then the bigger picture becomes clearer, and things make more sense.

So yes - accept that it will most likely never change and make your decision. But if you decide to stay then accept the lack of intimacy and don't beat her up (figuratively) about it. There are pros and cons to all decisions we ever make in life so it won't be a bad one whatever you choose, just one you make with your eyes open.

Easy to say of course.....

What Hellyhopter says, too.

I also don't think its just about sex.

Our sexuality is part of who we are. I am not talking about porn-culture, sexual positions or related ideas ... it just seems to me a very close and inner part of ourselves, and if we can't express it or our expression of it is not compatible with our partner, then there is a problem.

Perhaps an honest understanding OP, of yourself and your wife would be a start.

Good luck x

I agree with that, if you stay (and that's ok too) then it has to be on the basis that she basically doesn't want to have sex and that's ok.

I don't think that she's asexual. We have sex and she orgasms most of the time (when she doesn't it's because she's not bothered). We use sex toys (that I've introduced) but she won't use them alone - which is fine I guess.

I worry that I'm making this a bigger thing than it is. Sometimes it doesn't bother me massively. Other times.........

Arealdame: Not sure what you mean 'an honest understanding'

The whole thing doesn't add up. I can't see how someone who never masturbates would orgasm at all. I can't help thinking she's faking...

Yet another example of the misery brought about by the cult of monogamy. You and your wife would be a lot happier as co-parents rather than sexual/romantic partners, but because of the way we are told to perceive and engage in sexual relationships, this type of arrangement will be condemned by friends, family and a substantial percentage of 'marital therapists' (most of whom are, if not fuckwits, at least rather firmly fixed on longterm heterosexual monogamy as the ideal people should aspire to).

As someone said upthread, OP, this is just going to get worse. Your wife will resent you for wanting sex (and she will get some sympathy from outsiders as there is still a substantial amount of thinking along the lines that Men are Beasts and sex a chore a woman has to perform for the man when she can't avoid it any longer) You will resent your wife for not wanting sex with you (and you will get some sympathy from a culture that blames women for not pleasing men enough). To an extent, I feel that your wife is the one being selfish, but only because she doesn't want sex with you but doesn't want you doing it with anyone else, either.

helltotheno what on earth are you talking about!?

I just can't get my head around the idea of a woman having never ever masturbated but having PIV orgasms no problem. I'm not saying it's impossible, it just seems unusual, especially when OP has said she's basically not interested in having sex.

Maybe Smerlin just means it seemed a fairly pointlessly harsh thing to say given that op is perfectly waste of his wife's lack of interest in sex.

Aware*

I feel your pain. I left my marriage after 5 years of no sex with my husband. I still loved him (and still do) but I couldn't carry on with the constant rejection. Im still very good friends with him and am much happier even though I have been single for over two years. Despite living alone I don't feel lonely like I used to being with some one who clearly didn't want me.

I wish you all the best.

Apologies if that came across offensive OP. I'm on your side :)
If anything, I was only trying to add to the evidence that there are other decisions you could make here that could also lead to a good outcome...

I don't know if this will help but... My husband had quite a high sex drive. I enjoyed sex with him but things got a bit difficult when I had 3 children in 5 years. I was exhausted. Sex was the last thing on my mind. What I really wanted from my husband - and I asked him to do this many, many times - was to play with my hair. That's all I wanted! I'm pretty sure it would have led to sex as it totally relaxes me and makes me feel really horny. He would never do it. So I felt why should I have sex if he can't do the one (tiny) thing I want him to do. Is there something your wife would like you to do which sounds crazy to you but she really wants?

You can orgasm still if you are asexual you know.

The fact she never masturbates, and needs to be pushed/talked what ever into sexual acts, and since the last child was born especially makes me feel she thought there was no longer any point. She just doesn't have any sexual desire in my opinion.

Ask her honestly. Research it and discuss it. It could finally explain things.

You can orgasm still if you are asexual you know.

I know that but here, it's more the whole thing of being a sexual being... the totality of it. I'm just not seeing that from what OP said.

What was her childhood like OP?

Contrarian I have messaged you about your earlier questions.

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try and answer the questions on order (apologies for any typos - I'm on the phone and walking the dog).

I'm certain she's not faking it - frankly she wouldn't bother and also I can feel it when she's having one.

Her childhood was fairly typical. Her mother did have/has terrible depression (to the extent she required a spell in a hospital) however, my wife (although she sometimes gets down with the day to drudgery of domestic existence -she's complaining about the builders a lot at the moment) is in no way depressed.

She does occasionally initiate sex; however it is occasionally. She's often asked that I stop pestering and let her take the lead. That really appealed; however, it was just over a fortnight until she did initiate - and only then because the tension at home was palpable.

I'm coming to the conclusion that I've made my bed....
I'm not playing the victim, but (having had help from above posters) the fact is that, although things have got a little worse, she hasn't fundamentally changed. What has changed (probably not helped by my lurking on these boards) is my willingness to tolerate it. My children enjoy a fantastic quality of life - and I'd like that to continue. Being sexually dissatisfied is (I'm starting to think) a small price to pay. Who knows; I'm ten year's time (maybe less) my wife might be posting one of those "the arsehole left me" threads.

Contrarian I guess in most marriages there is some element of compromise, be it about sex, money, lifestyle choices, etc.

Only you can know whether you will be happy with your lot as it stands. Fwiw I agree that it's impractical to believe you should always expect everything to be perfect and you should leave as soon as it isn't (the 'only one life' argument).

I think you're right to not continue just clinging to the hope things will improve, but to decide on whether what you have right now is enough. Just be sure you are happy overall and won't feel bitter or resentful or 'martyred' - that will multiply in time and is a huge negative energy to carry around for you and your family.

If not the type of sex, at least the type of physical intimacy you're aiming for seems to be very restricted. And restricted to your preference. I hope I can explain this in a respectful way. What about asking your wife what kind of physical, sensual activities she'd like to do? And you support her in finding the time and space to do these and absolutely not as a precursour to sex. So, you don't keep the kids out of the way for her to have a hot soak in a bubble bath and then expect sex later.

Just one question - is she on birth control? After dd1 I went on the pill (which I'd been on previously), but after traumatic birth just couldn't bring myself to have sex with dh. One month I was due to start taking the pill but had bad sickness so didn't bother. Once the sickness was over I waited until the next month to start the pill again but found that with out the pill I was horny again. Is forgotten what it felt like and dh didn't know what hit him.
There are lots of things that affect sex drive so just a thought it might be worth checking.
Tell her you still find her attractive and love her. It's her you want to have sex with not anyone else. Do you love each other in ask the other ways? If so, I think you have a chance. Frankly I'm stunned that people are advising you to give up so quickly.

Very wise words from CaS. Where we've got to in the past is that I accept her right to not want sex (and don't pressure her unduly) and she accepts that I have the right to be a little p!ssed off when I'm frustrated. Of course that's not sustainable in the long term.

Vivacia: I've tried that (having been given the same advice once before). I never EVER expect sex and there have been a handful of occassions where I haven't wanted to progress things - almost so that I can prove that things don't necessarily have to follow a pattern. In those instances, SHE always insists - as she's usually worked up by then. That's one of the strange things. I often have to really work hard to initiate (it's rarely if ever reciprocated) but after the event she'll remark that she enjoyed it and really needed it.

She isn't on birth control at the moment and hasn't been for a number of years (since before our son was concieved. She's tried a number of methods in the past but none seem to agree with her - and she'd always complained that it was those that were effecting her sex drive. Now that she can't blame those; she's just come to the realisation that it's her. She won't countenance any medical checks or hormone imbalances and just takes a take it or leave it approach. For what it's worth. I don't think that her hormones are that our of whack, and I'm supportive of her not having to pump herself full of chemicals (for birth control or otherwise) but I do sometimes feel she doesn't realise what's at stake.

I always tell her I love her. She responds in kind (75% of the time) but (again) rarely will she just send that sort of text. I ALWAYS tell her she's beautiful - and she is. Quite often I'll randomly say "You're not bad looking you" just so she knows that I still find her attractive. She doesn't question it because she knows I want sex with her. She often remarks that I'm clearly not getting enough so am probably going elsewhere - even though I haven't and wouldn't. That really upsets me.

We do love each other in other ways and she's a good Mum and otherwise a good wife. She acknowledges that (although I'm sometimes "Mr. Grumpy Pants" I do my fair share (probably more than my fair share) around the house, I'm respectful, I provide - basically do all of those things that I should (I'm not looking for a medal). The only thing is recently, I've probably come across as a bit needy. She complained that (like a typical bloke) I never expressed my feeleings. I think she'd rather go back to me being grumpy and her constantly deflecting - rather than having these conversations; which neither of us partcularly enjoy.