Gutted: Is this the begining of the End?

[Contrarian78]

I've happened across these pages by accident (looking for a review of something I was buying) but have read with interest the advice that's given.

I'm a mid-thirties (34) male who is married (9 years) with two children (7 and 3). My wife and I have been together for 16 years and have, up until recently I think, always had a pretty solid relationship.

The one area we do seem to struggle with though is sex. Our sex-drives are massively mis-matched. I try to be understanding and of course we always march to the beat of her drum - which I sort of accept (even if I resent it a little) as there's nothing that would turn me off more than knowing she's doing it out of a sense of wifely duty - we fell into that trap (and never really got out of it) after our son was born.

My wife and I both work full time and split domestic duties evenly (honestly we do!). Having recently realised that we were in real danger of going our separate ways, we have decided to make more of an effort. She acknowledged some things - which was great, and I've made a real effort to not pressure her and be more romantic.

The 'problem' now is that it all seems a little 'forced' it doesn't quite feel natural. I sympathise with her becasue she's damned if she doesn't and damned if she does, but it feels like she's making more of an effort in order to protect the lifestyle we have and not disrupt things for the sake of the kids. I apreciate that, but I honestly don't think she'd choose me if we met today.

This is all made harder because I still fancy her rotten and she's such a kind person. Certainly I'd never cheat on her (we've only ever been with each other) but I do sort of wish that she wanted me as much as I want her. She admits she's not a particularly sexual person. We've done some pretty amazing stuff over the years (though I always feel I have to push it) but it's only when she's had a drink - which makes me a little sad if I'm honest.

Sorry for the long whinge off. It's sort of cathartic to get it off my chest. I feel bad becasue she's lovely and we have really made a good life for ourselves. But at what point might you realise that a split is inevitable?

Bela - Why do you think its OK to live with "long stretches with little or no sex" ?

Because that is life when you are dealing with two careers and raising a family, plus lots of people manage perfectly well with a partner working away etc. I know plenty of couples who work opposite shifts to facilitate childcare and barely see each other, emotionally healthy and mature people realise that it's not generally forever and that things change, you can't expect the same sex life while you have babies and young children, or even teenagers, I've been there, done that and come out of the other side, personally I think the OP is on one big wind-up ( and I'm not the only one) but it's an interesting insight into how some people view relationships and there have been enough people posting similar things over the years to know that there are men who think like OP and do believe they are hard done by.

LOL if you listen to Aguy said you will start a downhill spiral of emotional indifference between you ant your DW
I can not imagine any woman liking being treated like a colleague in a relationship.

What I would like to know is - would you be prepared to suggest the following - to sleep with your wife, both naked, no intercourse for 4 weeks?
Can you be just enjoying being together without the promise of a shag at the end of it?

Sigh.....

Aguy, what a load of twaddle. You think the best thing to do in this situation, where a marriage is falling apart, is to play a silly psychological game? That is stupid and potentially further damaging advice.

Contrarian has already been utilising bullying and my grumpy to get what he wants, so now let's add a mind game to the mix? Totally childish and ridiculous.

To add to it, your 'technique' also means contrarian isn't getting the one thing that he rather likes anyway, sex!

This just sounds like 'turn her down too, see how she likes it!'. Why would you do this if you already know rejection hurts?

If he wants to find out if his wife fancies him that's the way to do it!

But one thing is crystal clear. If blowjobs are really THAT important to him he knows he will never get one till death with his present wife. Fact.

We have sex quite rarely and less so recently because we have a 9 month old so I'd say it's been about a year now (gasp!) it is some thing that I want to work on, not to please DH but to have a healthy and balanced relationship that we're both happy with. However DH has never pressured me and we talk about our feelings quite openly, I trust him when he says we're ok and he's ok with how things are now and that's how I know when the time comes to address this stuff we will be free to do so without me feeling the pressure of having to put out and without him feeling unattractive and rejected.

The difficulty with the op IMHO is that when his wife does make the effort op feels it's forced and that's not good enough. But equally when she gives a little bit he pushes for more. In reality small, gentle steps are needed, pushing your luck to get a bit of nooky now just compounds the problems and makes things difficult later. She is in an impossible situation and I really feel for her.

Also, if she has no desire for him she'll be soo relieved and grateful to get some peace at last!
He'll be able to see if she's gradually becoming a happier person by being left well alone, rather being constantly tormented by (to her) an unwanted 'sex pest'.

Bloody hell.

This is ridiculous.

I hope she summons up the courage to leave you OP. What a load of entitled bullshit.

Have a wank. Seriously. As for your wife not liking you wanking, are you incapable of throwing one down the plughole while you're having a shower?

FGS.

You sound like a narc to me. Google it. In fact, have a wank first, then google it.

Oops so many people posted between my two posts that the last one looks like a random confessional. I would say with regards to aguys advice that it's a good idea to stop all sexual pressure BUT if you can show affection through a hug or a kiss and stop it there she may gradually learn to trust that you are not going to pressure her. If you withdraw affection completely she may feel like she's being punished.

If she wants a hug or a kiss let HER make the first move. And he should accept it passively and reciprocate it mildly. And then, treating it as of no significance, move on to other things during this time. Nothing cold about that.

"He has offered to be in a sexless marriage to make her happy"

they are not in a sexless marriage and anyway - as he has already said it's not the amount of sex they are having that he is upset by, it's the kind of sex. She doesn't want to do the sex the same way he keeps on asking her to.

yes Aguy, very warm 8-12 weeks ahead of 2 of them

OP- you have made quite a few references to your financial arrangements which appear to be to be a bone of contention. If it didn't bother you, you might not be trying to redress the balance elsewhere in your relationship.

From what I understand you feel you are meeting all your wife's needs(and more) but she isn't meeting yours. There are issues of control here on both sides.

Firstly tackle the money side. If you are in an equal relationship everyone contributes fairly. One way of doing this would be to pool all the money from both sides, subtract all the bills, agree on a savings pot and then split whatever disposal income there is down the middle so you both have the same amount of financial freedom.

Next drop the porn. It is corrosive. There is absolutely no shame in meeting your own needs privately. Sexually it might help if you made your wife the focus and met her needs exclusively for a while with no pressure for her to reciprocate. If she then reciprocated you would know if was from a genuine place. I think sorting out contraception is a top priority too. Children should be planned and both parties should be prepared.

I think therapy might be helpful to you because your self esteem seems very bound up in the sexual response you get and there might be some security issues. Also it might help you learn about what it is you actually need and how to communicate this.

I feel sorry for them both. They both WANT to make the other happy.

OP wants his wife to ENJOY a normal active sex life. His wife doesn't have a high sex drive, but wants to make him happy by providing duty sex, which isn't enough for him.

I don't know where the tantric sex came from (isn't that a form of abstaining anyway?) OP only says he has conservative tastes, nothing kinky.

I cant believe anyone makes their husband wait months on end when they sleep in the same bed every night! Id be horrified if my husband was OK with that!

I don't really know when sex became so sacred.. Would he being called an abusive bully if he was trying to persuade his wife to massage him every night?

I cant believe anyone makes their husband wait months on end when they sleep in the same bed every night!

Again, can you please read the thread? The op has sex on average once a week. There's no 'months on end' here. He wants a lot more than once week and also wants his wife to do stuff she's not interested in. Which bit of that are you incapable of understanding?

I was referring to another post. I know OP has sex with his wife approx. once a week.

From what I understood, he mainly wants her to enjoy it and be part of it. I know my husband really likes me to initiate it. Which is obviously difficult and "fake" if you don't really have much sex drive.

I think the point is he DOESNT want her to do anything she doesn't want to! He wants her to genuinely want to.

Some interesting comments. Some useful, some not. I accept (still~) that I've been unreasonable in my expectations. The use of porn and (oddly enough) coming on these boards and tuning into that if you're not happy leave/LTB vibe has meant that I've pushed the matter over this last few months. 'Emboldened' by my missives on this thread yesterday (and those of others (partciularly CaS)) I rasied the topic again with my wife. She's sick of hearing about this (understandably) and the discussion didn't go well and culminated with her sleeping in the spare room and us considering separation (again).

There has always been a tension with regards to the mis-matched sex drives, but we've coped. Principally by coming to the same sort of arrangement (though not as frequent and without the BJ's) as strokey. I got it into my head that this was not enough (for either of us) and set about trying to 'improve' the situation.

My behaviour - and the way I went about it generally was (I can now see) totally unacceptable. I've apologised to my wife for it - I don't yet know if she's accepted.

I would like this put into context though. The relationship is otherwise great. Yes you're entitled to feel sorry for my wife (I do), but this is one small facet of our relationship. One of the things she said last night (which I've acknowledged) is that she thought the marriage was in good shape (save of course for this issue).

I'm not perfect, but I think a good number of people have me down as being an absolute nightmare to live with. I'm (generally) a normal happy go lucky bloke. Slightly self-centred at times possibly but not really a nightmare to live with I don't think.

Also, the Mr. Grumpy Pants thing would last (at most) for a couple of days. I know I'm going to be in for a flaming and almost hate myself for saying it but my wife spends at least two days a month being (by her own admission) totally unreasonable. When that happens, I do my best to put up with it and keept the kids out of her way.

Amazing! So it's MN and the whole ltb vibe that's turned you into this unreasonable, creepy little control-freak?

Brilliant. Went round the houses a bit but glad you got there in the end. Does this mean you're done now?

Hang on, did I suggest raising it again??

I think I was trying to say deal with it a bit more by yourself. It seems like you approach problems by trying to persuade others to agree with you and/or fix them for you. I don't think that's helpful in this instance.

I'm sorry, but can you not see how reading through these posts (as someone who was dissatisfied in their relationship) might lead you to be emboldened about your own right to a 'perfect' relationship?

Maybe it's just me, but I did get slightly caught up in the whole: if you're not happy with the relationship, you should leave. Which is sort of what I wanted to hear (and did initially from a good number of people) becasue I felt my wife was at fault.

To be honest, it was your script I was using. I now recognise that I was doing that almost as some sort of strategic effort to get my own way. She (rightly) saw through it and an argument ensued.

Yes we get it!

You're attempting some sort of real time unfolding of how destructive and dangerous the advice is on here.

You are so not as smart as you think.

strokey if you we're referring to me with your comment about making a man wait months on end for sex than you are mistaken, I don't make him do (or not do) anything. He doesn't lie next to me desperate for some intimacy nor do I control the sex situation it's just where we are at the moment. We are both happy with the way things are just now, I know this because we are both good communicators and are both capable of saying when we are unhappy with anything.

CaS - don't fall for it. It's a pathetic little game.

"I think the point is he DOESNT want her to do anything she doesn't want to! He wants her to genuinely want to"

he does. He wants her to give him blow jobs and to lick up his ejaculation.