Gutted: Is this the begining of the End?

[Contrarian78]

I've happened across these pages by accident (looking for a review of something I was buying) but have read with interest the advice that's given.

I'm a mid-thirties (34) male who is married (9 years) with two children (7 and 3). My wife and I have been together for 16 years and have, up until recently I think, always had a pretty solid relationship.

The one area we do seem to struggle with though is sex. Our sex-drives are massively mis-matched. I try to be understanding and of course we always march to the beat of her drum - which I sort of accept (even if I resent it a little) as there's nothing that would turn me off more than knowing she's doing it out of a sense of wifely duty - we fell into that trap (and never really got out of it) after our son was born.

My wife and I both work full time and split domestic duties evenly (honestly we do!). Having recently realised that we were in real danger of going our separate ways, we have decided to make more of an effort. She acknowledged some things - which was great, and I've made a real effort to not pressure her and be more romantic.

The 'problem' now is that it all seems a little 'forced' it doesn't quite feel natural. I sympathise with her becasue she's damned if she doesn't and damned if she does, but it feels like she's making more of an effort in order to protect the lifestyle we have and not disrupt things for the sake of the kids. I apreciate that, but I honestly don't think she'd choose me if we met today.

This is all made harder because I still fancy her rotten and she's such a kind person. Certainly I'd never cheat on her (we've only ever been with each other) but I do sort of wish that she wanted me as much as I want her. She admits she's not a particularly sexual person. We've done some pretty amazing stuff over the years (though I always feel I have to push it) but it's only when she's had a drink - which makes me a little sad if I'm honest.

Sorry for the long whinge off. It's sort of cathartic to get it off my chest. I feel bad becasue she's lovely and we have really made a good life for ourselves. But at what point might you realise that a split is inevitable?

No I was laughing at your thought that anyone here is benefitting from any of this including your candour; I understand what it means ta.

The problem here is that you started of on one tack then as you didn't get the response you wanted approached it in a probably similar way to how you do with your wife or at work. I suspect it's all the same.

Contrarian, I think it's good that you are going to try and change, and I hope for your wife's sake and your marriage that you can. I have had first hand experience too of living with someone similar to you, though no where near as bad, and I do think that it is a problem that can be rectified, maybe in your case with the help of a professional. I agree that this sort of behaviour makes your love die just a little bit every day.

I think you have stood up to the teasing and attacks that were inevitable from your first post quite well, but I get the impression you are used to dealing with differing opinions and managing conflict in your day to day job.

I think there are a lot of explanations your wife is owed, and a lot of apologies, and then some concrete evidence that you have changed needs to be shown to her.

"Its NOTHING to do with OP or his behaviour."

You've read the whole thread and that's your conclusion?
Wow, just........ wow.

Your contributions have long since ceased to be constructive/insightful.

Merely because you're still only hearing what you want to hear. You're right, everyone else is wrong.

How do you people find "abuse" in the way OP talks about his wife?

How beautiful and kind she is, what a great mother and wife, how much he adores her, they laugh together, they are best friends...

He has offered to be in a sexless marriage to make her happy, but she doesn't want that. He has even moved out.

They seem to have a great marriage other than the sex issue. She clearly doesn't want to be without him. I hope they make it work, because it looks like they have a lot more going for them than some.

SRC - I don't really see it as a 'problem' I started out feeling that I was the injured party - as most people on here do. people were initially receptive and I became a little more candid (something that rarely -if at all happens on other threads). We then got to the situation whereby that initial empathy/sympathy has gone and people are overtly (and in some instances if I'm honest people resorted to personal attacks - which actually says alot about them) and uncomfortably hostile.

I've ended up in a very different place to what I ecxpected. Again, most people(I think) have snooped on a few of these) are a little more entrenched. I've accepted that I'm in the wrong. I'm partcularly gutted about the way I manipulate. There's something about seeing it written down which makes you think.

Oh great, OP. So I expect your next trick is going to be following your wife round with your cock out going 'But I've chaaaaaanged! I said I was sorrreeeeeee! NOW WILL YOU JUST FUCKING SUCK IT?'

And that won't work, either. I really hope she dumps your sorry arse.

Yes Ive read the whole thread. As far as I can tell his biggest crime is that he badgers her for sex, and wants her to enjoy it too.

Is that really abuse? Id love to meet the actual people behind some of the words on here... what are your lives actually like??

This couple have 14 years behind them. Been together since they were teenagers. I do wonder if the people screaming "abuse" have any idea of the love and bond that that creates between two people.

Strokey: I apreciate your 'support'. It's especially meaningful as you're in a similar position.

It's been an uncomfortable day or so (though this has been going on for a few months - since before I moved out temporarily) but it has been useful. I've accepted that I can be overbearing. It hurts to be called a bully (though I can sort of see where they're coming from) and I think they run the risk of demenaing the term slightly if I'm brutally honest. I think their perceptions would change if they met my wife -I imagine that they view her as some down-at-heel woman, frightenend to speak her own mind (that couldn't be fuether from the truth.

None of that excuses my behaviour. I would note though that I have felt slightly bullied myself - though it is water off a duck's back to a degree.

yes but Strokey don't you sense that those statements are just a weeny bit superficial?

I think there probably are some words that OP could use that suggest he really does understand and will change but there is a world of difference between grasping the concept intellectually (as seems to be the case) and really feeling it deep down.

SolidGoldBrass: Thank you.

See my post below Strokey. THAT'S why people are annoyed. He basically lied by omission and presented himself in a 'poor me' light to garner sympathy, when it turns out he actually has a great life, in every respect and his issue is that wifey doesn't open her legs for him every night. Now are you clear?

^I'm not puzzling at all. You started a thread about how your wife didn't want sex, mouthed off all the usual (what I now know were) platitudes just to ingratiate yourself with the primarily female readership of the forum. Gradually, you drip fed to the point where you exposed yourself as passive aggressive, unreasonable, a bully, needy, porn-dependent (or at least influenced) and quite frankly, unable to keep sex in perspective, then to cap it all, you say you're getting it an average of once a week ... with a wife who works a stressful job, with two small kids thrown in...

Not only that, but we also now know that you equate the lifestyle you've given her with her putting out in direct proportion (please don't keep talking about 'improving' your sex life). More recent admissions are that you talk her down and effectively bully her. Like I said, if what you want is a convenient set of orifices that you can have sex on at will, just enter a professional arrangement.

Your wife is not the problem, you are. You need to speak to someone about your view of what a partnership is because it's hella skewed at the moment.^

btw don't get me wrong OP I really hope you can work things out with Mrs C, but in my view a little humility wouldn't go amiss and as I think that is a character trait that would not serve you in your work it will be an uphill struggle.

Good luck to you.

SRC: I try and back those statements up with actual actions. I know I've been an epic fail on the bedroom front, but I try and ngive my wife every possible freedom I can.

I think it's also backed up by the fact that (had I wanted to) I could have painted my wife to be toally unreasonable - then I'd have come across as (slightly) less of an idiot. I haven't. She's great.

Helltotheno: Not only that, but we also now know that you equate the lifestyle you've given her with her putting out in direct proportion (please don't keep talking about 'improving' your sex life). More recent admissions are that you talk her down and effectively bully her. Like I said, if what you want is a convenient set of orifices that you can have sex on at will, just enter a professional arrangement.

That could not be farther form the truth, I'm really not sure where you got that from.

I've already admitted that I came on here looking for support becasue I didn't see that I was in the wrong.

Ah but there you are Contrarian: you may well not have been an epic fail on the bedroom front, although that is possible. What you have more than likely been is an epic fail on the understanding of your wife front.

Oh and I really don't think that saying 'I could have said all these things about her' is beneficial because a) it wouldn't have helped you in the long run and b) this nest of vipers has a strange way of drawing out the truth from OPs on most threads. In fact that's why I spend too much time reading this forum.

I'm really not sure where you got that from

Read back your posts and stop trying to back out of stuff you've said.
You still don't see how you're in the wrong.
Your wife is not being painted as an angel.. everyone has their faults, but nobody deserves to be constantly pestered for sex in any circumstance but especially when the pest is already getting plenty, it's an unbelievable pain. Just leave her the f%^k alone, get on with your life and be grateful for what you have...

Oh and... get therapy.

Strokey, I've been married for almost 30 years, with some quite long stretches with little or no sex, my husband has never behaved like an entitled and whiney child in order to get more sex, he values me as a person you see, not as a set of sexual organs there for his needs.

This woman has two young children and has worked/ studied for a nursing degree, which I'm sure is damned hard - he writes as if her contribution to their lifestyle is miniscule while he has "let" her have a nice life via his earnings. His none-too-subtle put downs of her are interspersed with bland niceties about how much he fancies her, I don't understand how you can't see how manipulative and controlling he sounds from his own writings .

I don't see any put-downs Bela... In fact the one negative I found was that his wife has been violent (which you all dismissed)

I read that OP is happy that his wife works, and says she has made an equal contribution throughout the marriage. The fact that they could manage without her earnings is just that - a fact. You jumped on the word "allow" and twisted it to mean something it did not.

OPs mistake was being too honest about his tactics. Fascinating for me to read personally.

You're not reading between the lines Strokey. But more importantly, you're in the same situation as OP's wife but think it's ok for someone to behave like OP, so it's understandable that you'd stick up for him.

Constructive not obstructive!

Bela - Why do you think its OK to live with "long stretches with little or no sex" ?

That's a problem, surely.

Got here a bit like you, I think, i.e. by chance. Haven't waded through everything for the same reason that I haven't started Proust!
Anyway, here's an idea, but no guarantees it's a good one:
Behave in a completely ordinary, and extremely friendly way, like the very best of friends, like a close, well liked work contact you've known for ages and get on brilliantly with. But initiate absolutely nothing that you wouldn't with a work contact - and I mean nothing! Nothing physical whatsoever.
Don't hug, don't kiss, don't fondle, don't touch her at all! Not in any way. Don't put your arm round her or hold hands. None of that! Tactfully avoid such situations where it seems the natural thing to do. Remember, for the present... she's 'a work colleague'.
Lots of smiles and friendliness and chatting and being ever so helpful to her... but nothing else! Give her completely what she seems to want - leave her alone entirely, zero pressure. Just adopt the role of being a wonderful supportive and close, but platonic friend.
Do your level best not to get into arguments or try 'win' at discussions on anything, whether it be the middle East or personal matters. Try to make everything run as smoothly in your house as a Roll Royce.

The golden rule is: if anything is to be initiated she has to do it! It will never be you.
So if, at some point, she spontaneously gives you a hug or a kiss, accept it in the most friendly, but completely passive way. Initiate nothing in return. Do NOT take it forward. Do not rebuff her physical gesture in any way but do nothing in return.
As soon as you can without seeming cold, disengage from her hug and move onto doing and talking about something else. Don't get into any discussions about 'us'. If she seems a little puzzled and says something about how you are behaving do NOT explain! Fob her off, change the subject, say as little as possible. Leave her to be puzzled or unsure. Start talking about something else. Keep her completely in the dark.

Needless to say, sex is totally 'out' for the duration of this scenario. (No once-a-week sex any more.)
If, by some unlikely chance, she comes onto you for sex and initiates it, tell her in the nicest possible way that you're rather tired tonight. If, on another occasion, she comes onto you again and seems to want to make love with you - do it the second time. But then go back to as previously. Become rather hard to get!
(Throughout all this just satisfy yourself privately and secretly. Say absolutely nothing about that, of course.)

Try this for a maximum of, say, 8 to 12 weeks. If, after having left all the initiating completely to her and having put her under no pressure at any point in time, with you being merely the passive recipient of any of her initiatives, she never, in fact, does come to you, never does take any initiative or shows desire for you physically, not even for a kiss and a hug, you will have surely learned that your wife simply doesn't fancy you. So that knowledge will enable you to decide what is best for you to do. But I'd hope it will have a happy outcome!

Aguy just read the thread, really. The OP is getting plenty of sex, he just wants it every night, not to mention BJs and tantric.

Strokey no that's not a problem. What about people who work away? What about dry spells when dealing with illness, small kids etc? You obviously didn't read the great posts from people on this thread who've been through all those things and come out the other side better than ever. It's called being mature enough to realise that circumstances change and you need to adapt to them.