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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Gutted: Is this the begining of the End?

580 replies

Contrarian78 · 20/08/2013 14:03

I've happened across these pages by accident (looking for a review of something I was buying) but have read with interest the advice that's given.

I'm a mid-thirties (34) male who is married (9 years) with two children (7 and 3). My wife and I have been together for 16 years and have, up until recently I think, always had a pretty solid relationship.

The one area we do seem to struggle with though is sex. Our sex-drives are massively mis-matched. I try to be understanding and of course we always march to the beat of her drum - which I sort of accept (even if I resent it a little) as there's nothing that would turn me off more than knowing she's doing it out of a sense of wifely duty - we fell into that trap (and never really got out of it) after our son was born.

My wife and I both work full time and split domestic duties evenly (honestly we do!). Having recently realised that we were in real danger of going our separate ways, we have decided to make more of an effort. She acknowledged some things - which was great, and I've made a real effort to not pressure her and be more romantic.

The 'problem' now is that it all seems a little 'forced' it doesn't quite feel natural. I sympathise with her becasue she's damned if she doesn't and damned if she does, but it feels like she's making more of an effort in order to protect the lifestyle we have and not disrupt things for the sake of the kids. I apreciate that, but I honestly don't think she'd choose me if we met today.

This is all made harder because I still fancy her rotten and she's such a kind person. Certainly I'd never cheat on her (we've only ever been with each other) but I do sort of wish that she wanted me as much as I want her. She admits she's not a particularly sexual person. We've done some pretty amazing stuff over the years (though I always feel I have to push it) but it's only when she's had a drink - which makes me a little sad if I'm honest.

Sorry for the long whinge off. It's sort of cathartic to get it off my chest. I feel bad becasue she's lovely and we have really made a good life for ourselves. But at what point might you realise that a split is inevitable?

OP posts:

antimatter · 22/08/2013 09:56

I haven't read the whole thread
It is possible that you as a coupe large great team, best friends etc and she just doesn't fancy you any more.

She doesn't wan to upset the status quo & go all the way as to divorce you.

I don't know if you can reignite that spark.
If she works full time & there are 2 small kids and house to run - that takes a lot of energy.

When was the last time the two of you went away or stayed in for a weekend on your own without kids?

LoisPuddingLane · 22/08/2013 09:57

Do you have normal conversations with her, or just these manipulative ones?

Leverette · 22/08/2013 09:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lemonylemon · 22/08/2013 09:59

No, a reflection of how dysfunctional YOU'VE become, I feel.

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 09:59

We were supposed to be going away this weekend without the kids. I'm not sure if we are now (I doubt it).

We had a week without the kids (they went to my wife's parents) a fortnight ago. It was great and we really did connect. Instead of enjoying that, I pushed for 'more' - though if I'm being brutally honest, it wasn't anything outlandish!

OP posts:

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:01

Of course we have normalk conversations. That's the frustrating thing. I don't need to manipulate her in any other way (I'm being brutally honest here as I can't be bothered to sugar-coat it) becasue I'm utterly satisifed with every other aspect of our lives together though the kids can be difficult at times

OP posts:

LoisPuddingLane · 22/08/2013 10:02

Here's an idea - why not let her speak to you. Ask (open, not closed or leading) questions and then let her speak. Let her say what she feels when you do this to her.

I don't think this is actually about sex at all. It's a power trip that is sex-coated.

Helltotheno · 22/08/2013 10:03

I think OP is just winding us up now so it's pointless.

I must say, I feel sorry for the wife that this is the only man she's ever/possibly will ever experience. And of course indirectly, any male child she has, who will likely grow up to be an arrogant, bullying arse like his dad, and any female child who will grow up thinking an arrogant, bullying arse like her dad is what she should aspire to...

Oh well, hey ho...

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:08

LPL: It's a good idea. I'm going to suggest we go on the weekend away and do exactly that.

It's not a power trip. One of the reasons I allow my wife why did I have to write "allow"? to keep all of the money she earns is because (and I'm possibly compensating here for my personality) I want her to have financial freedom and to be able to make the choices that it affords. I honestly do. She could divorce me tomorrow. We're fortunate enough not to be constrained financially in the way theat some couples are (in that they can't afford to divorce). I'm not (and have never been) violent to my wife (though she couldn't make the same statement) and she knows that I don't pose any physical threat to her or the children.

OP posts:

Helltotheno · 22/08/2013 10:10

Bullies often don't pose any physical threat.

LoisPuddingLane · 22/08/2013 10:14

Why indeed did you write "allow"? Putting a line through it and questioning it still leaves it visible. If you had not meant allow you would not write it. You cannot give permission to somebody to keep their own earned money. You cannot "allow" it, unless you see yourself as the one with the power.

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:19

Helltotheno: I'm not perfect, I don't claim to be. I'm not sure I've ever been described (even by people who know, but don't like me) as arrogant. As I've previouslyt said, my wife and I are quite private - even when out socially. I'm coming to the realisation that I've been a bully (it's unplesant).

Where I'm going to have to stop you though, is where you make assumptions about my kids. Of course we all impact on our children (for better or worse). I do (easily) 50% of the domestic duties becasue it's important to both of us that neither of our children (one of each by the way) think that anything is gender specific. I iron my own clothes (and my wife's and kids') and I LOVE the fact that my wife goes out to work in a fulfilling career (even though she probably doesn't have to) becasue of the example it sets the kids s- particularly my daughter. Our household isn't perfect. It's not easy for my kids growing up in it (my wife has to temper my expectations of them). But I love them without reservation and this (sex thing) is the only thing which we disagree on and alkthough there is some residual fall-out (becasue I can be Mr. Grumpy Pants) we - like most other parents I'm sure - shield the kids from it.

OP posts:

Leverette · 22/08/2013 10:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:24

LPL: I wrote it partly becasue I'm lazy (and couldn't think of another way to express it) but also becasue I recognise that objectively, I could ask my wife to contribute to the household finances. We agreed that she'd pay £500 pcm (which is less than it costs me to keep her car on the road by the way) but she often forgets - and I don't chase. So in that sense, I do 'allow' it.

The word - which is why I struck it through, but left it in - is quite emotive.

OP posts:

LoisPuddingLane · 22/08/2013 10:25

You have expectations of your children too? To such a degree that our wife has to temper your expectations?

I would suggest that not expecting over and above from your wife and children would be a good place to start.

whosshe · 22/08/2013 10:26

Contrarian, if you have come to the realisation that you have been bullying your wife, what are you going to do now to change? Do you think you can?

LoisPuddingLane · 22/08/2013 10:27

"Allow" is a very telling word - I wouldn't say it's emotive. You grant permission, albeit with a line through it.

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:28

My expectations from my children aren't (in my view) unreasonable. There is an expectation that they should always give 100% adn that they should look after thier things. My wife buys them so much and they don't appreciate it. They're not bad kids, but they're probably a little bit spoiled and don't respect their things My wife is working on that.

Everyone has expectations of their children.

OP posts:

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:29

'Allow' is the correct word. Just that in the context of this discussion, and the things you now know about be, it feels uncomfortable/wrong.

OP posts:

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:30

*know about me,

OP posts:

LoisPuddingLane · 22/08/2013 10:30

You allow her to keep her own earned money? Read that again and see how it sounds.

PauseandRewind · 22/08/2013 10:31

I've NC'd to make this comment. You could be my husband, but he doesn't quite take the bullying or manipulative behaviour to the level that you do. I'm still with him because I love him. But a bit of it is dying. Every. Single. Day. Your poor wife.

LoisPuddingLane · 22/08/2013 10:35

Everyone has expectations of their children.

You are speaking on behalf of everyone again. As the mother of a grown up child, I would say that I didn't "expect" anything from her. I wanted her to be healthy and happy and a decent, compassionate human being, which she is.

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:35

I know. But (as uncomfortable as it is) that's how it is. I don't complain about it. I'm happy to pay the bills - and despite what some say, I don't do it so that I can have any power over her.

If I was being brutally honest (and close friends of ours who are aware of how we're set up financially (we are quite private) agree) my wife could, and probably should contribute more to the expenses. She acknowledges this (though it's not an issue for me so it doesn't cause major upsets) so to the extent that I don't require her to contribute - or enforce what most people might seem as reasonable - I do 'allow' her to keep her own money. It's not as if I'd ask for every penny she earned. That would be wrong.

OP posts:

Original poster

Contrarian78 · 22/08/2013 10:38

LPL: Of course you had expectations of her. You'd have been a pretty terrible mother if you didn't. There surely was an expectation that she'd be kind, considerate, polite. I'd venture that you couldn't raise a decent compassionate human being if there weren't those expectations.

OP posts:

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