Update on my stingy MIL post if anyone remembers

[tabbycat15]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1803878-Stingey-MIL-makes-me-feel-like-an-outsider

I might be repeating some things in this msg but my previous post is a long thread.

Well we broached the subject but were told that they hadn't factored in paying us anything & made it such a big deal that it costs so much for them to come & see us that they can't afford to give us anything. They are coming business class & they are not that hard up for money. They said that they had to have their roof fixed & BIL is living there rent free/unemployed & what with his baby coming along they have to buy things for him.

We have worked out that we will be about $1000 out of pocket when they stay. The fleeced us with rent, never helped us out when we had no money & had to buy food/nappies on our credit card. They never bought DS anything like a cot or pram when he was born.

When we lived there she wouldn't let us do our washing in her machine even though we bought it. She said I don't think my machine will cope with all your washing so we had to take it to the launderette. This was 21 years ago & we were charged 170 pounds each rent for staying there.

I am so angry that I have the inlaws from hell. I've only ever been nice to them. Mil never helped out with DS or helped me at home. I was really ill with PND & have no parents. They lived 5 mins away but just didn't want to know. They only ever had DS twice when he was sick & couldn't go to the childminder. I had to pay the childminder & MIL charged me by the hour as well to have him for a few hours. I had to go into work as I had no other choice.

The only time MIL ever rang was when she wanted her beauty treatment done for free. When ever they came to our house we would be in waiting for them. They never rang the door bell, just walked straight in with our key. We had a key for their house but always rang the bell as wouldn't have just walked in.

If we went up for dinner I was told what I had to provide. I usually had to cook the dinner & bring it up with me. I can understand bringing so wine or something but not the main course. Xmas we had to buy everything except the turkey & take it up with us. She would make a point of telling us how big the turkey was & how much it costs.
She wouldn't feed DS at all when he was there. We had to bring all his food & drink with us.

I really have the stingist inlaws. I'm glad we are in Australia now as now I realise how bad they treated us.

tabbycat15 - Not trying to put pressure on you, and apologies if I've missed you answering this already, but have you given any thought to the recurring "What's the worst that could happen?" question that keeps popping up from various posters....?

Get your DH to tell them you cannot afford to have them stay unless they pay!

Weigh up which is worse: (a) A short period of feeling awkward - possibly with the bonus of them deciding to never visit again :) or (b) the prolonged stress of your increased financial struggling, long after they've gone, and teaching your kids that it's acceptable to be treated so terribly and that they shouldn't stand up for themselves! :(

Hi OP,
read bits of this thread and some of your original thread. I really feel for you having the ILs from hell over.
I really do think you should think about getting some counselling to help you get over your dreadful foster parents and also help you be more assertive towards your IL's. Ideal would be for you to just tell them not to come and visit, but i know that that is easier said than done given they way you have been conditioned from childhood.

I think if they do end up staying, i would arrange to go somewhere else for a few days over Xmas (even rent somewhere or stay with friends if possible, leave all your kids xmas presents there and obviously you will contribute towards food & drink). Then a couple of days before Xmas, jump in your car and off you go. Make sure you do not leave anything to eat, empty the fridge and let them fend for themselves over Xmas.

Do not have guilt whatsoever over this. I would not actually bother coming back till after New year.

That'll learn 'em

Hi Tabby. I've read everything so won't be making impossible suggestions!

The salient points for me are

1. They are bullies/abusive.

1. Your own childhood stops you from recognising how awful their behaviour truly is.

1. It also makes you feel powerless to change what comes next.

1. You will be/are becoming bitter and angry which will take away from the happiness you've worked so hard for.

Standing up to bullies is terrifying, and no doubt they will resist any attempts for you to do so. BUT THE ALTERNATIVE IS NOW SO AWFUL THAT YOU MUST.

Please write that letter. We will help you to word it if you want us to. They have to be told that either they pay $1000 up front towards the cost of their stay - NOT for you to slave for them- or they cancel their flights. There are no other options on the table, nor will there be.

You and your family unit's happiness is your priority. They do not have the right or power to change that UNLESS YOU GIVE IT TO THEM. Someone has to budge but it doesn't always have to be you

Thanks for all your replies. I have seen 5 psychologists, 3 counsellors, 2 psychiatrists & currently see a psychologist that is funded from an eating disorders foundation. I have told them all about my childhood & not one has ever really helped. They just listen & nod but never give me any coping strategies. The current one is probably the best but all she seems today is the reason your feel like this is because of this or that. I have been seeing her for over a year but don't really get anything out of the session.

I know my childhood has made me put up with their behaviour.. I'm not really sure what I'm scared off facing up to them but something is stopping me. I know I never had a proper family but maybe I just see that you have to make the best of the ones you have warts & all. I just don't know
why I'm finding it so difficult.

My parents were pretty rubbish - there was alcoholism, DV, general marital horribleness for years - but they never, ever charged me for babysitting their granddaughter. (To be truthful they never really babysat but my mum looked after her while I had driving lessons).

Charging to look after a beloved grandchild is just unheard of. Well, until now. IT'S NOT NORMAL.

I know this was from a few days ago but couldn't pass by and not comment.

It sounds as if you know they are awful but feel unable to respond similarly to them. I think you accept they wont change or treat you or your DH or DC well. their treatment of you echoes your upbringing by your appalling FC. It may feel familiar and therefore you know how to cope with their behaviour - you learnt how to cope as a child and are still doing that.

I implore you to change your behaviour - they obviously won't theirs. You deserve so much better. You moved to other side of the world - you escaped.

They don't deserve anything from you. Charge them or bill them or whatever. If they never want to see you again then so much the better. Your DC are better off with no GP than seeing their behaviour and your treatment by them.

Good luck. Never forget how amazing you are.

My observation is that this is about the relationship between your husband and his parents, but you have taken it on as your problem. Its a huge burden to you which you can't resolve.

I think you need to put this back into his court. Tell him how you feel about the impending visit. Tell him you need HIM to resolve this before Christmas is ruined for you all, including the children.

It does you credit that you are still willing to try, but from what you have said this is just going to hurt you.

What stops you? FOG. Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

All emotions that are familiar and designed to keep you in the place you are now. None of them belong to you and it's their rejection that will set you free.

I can imagine what will happen if you do treat them firmly though. MiL will no doubt throw the most monumental of kicked puppy strops. Expect meaningful silences, banging and sighing, and accusatory looks from FiL. Still, they might go home early .

I also think that you have to behave in a way which YOU are comfortable with, that 'sits right' with you, and your husband.

You and your husband can make the boundaries clear in advance, politely but firmly.

By the way - has your husband had counselling? As I said above, this is really his issue. You are just in the firing line.

Are you angry about any of this? Are you angry that they treat BIL so differently? If you can access that anger and use it to act - write the letter - then I think you are likely to start really moving on from all the injustice you have suffered throughout your life.

I'm sorry your psychs etc haven't helped much. Are you fighting against negative emotions? Would this be because you are worried that once you start feeling utter fury (entirely reasonable) against your FCs, SS who wouldn't listen to you, teachers who should have noticed, your ILs who are carrying on the abuse, then you're scared you won't be able to stop?

DH hasn't had any individual counselling but had come to a few sessions with different psychologists & my psychiatrist so he understands all what I've been through.

I know it his parents but it affects me more than DH how Inlaws have treated us. He is angry too that BIL has been treated different but it doesn't get to him like it does me. We did broach the paying us some money over the phone but were immediately made to feel guilty as they said it costs them so much to come & see us & implied that was payment enough. They won't cancel/change their flights as they always wanted to go business class one time.
They went on about FIL's cancer, BIL & his problems, the roof leaking & how it had been such a bad year. The only thing they were looking forward to was a lovely holiday & want nothing to spoil it.
We are polite $ accommodate them & I realise that I probably do too much for them when they are here I suppose I treat them as I would any guest. Maybe I just don't have a bad bone in my body. I feel I always have to be nice even if I'm crumbling underneath. I suffered with PND so bad & have been left with major depressive disorder. I see a psychiatrist for my meds & will be on meds for the rest of my life.
I am angry but no one has helped me deal with my childhood. SS didn't want to know, FC are probably dead. There is nothing I can to direct this anger at anyone. There is always something every day that reminds me. I just have to live my life as best I can & as stable as I can be on my meds.

Tabbycat - it isn't bad to want people to treat you with respect, and to do something to ensure that they do. You have, perforce, become a "people pleaser" but in doing so are ensuring that your needs and wants are always at the bottom of the pile. This is obviously not good for you.

You have to do what you can live with. Take some of the advice on board here - keep everything low key, basic, you do the bare minimum, your DH the same. You are not there to be your ILs slaves!

So they've had a bad year and don't want anything to spoil their holiday - talk about emotional guilt-tripping. You HAVE to take a stand and say "enough is enough - we are not crippling ourselves, financially and emotionally, any longer."

Sounds like you've tried a lot of therapists for your emotional load from your childhood - have any of them been NLP therapists? Just asking because proper NLP therapists (not necessarily "life coaches") can give you excellent coping/clearing strategies to help you get past the legacy of your childhood. PM me if you want to know more. :)
Incidentally, NLP can help you with standing up to emotional bullies too...

OK. I get you.

However, there are a lot of negative things being mixed up in your head and rolled into one. Your in-laws are not your FCs.

They are very successfully passing the buck back to you. Your in-laws are choosing to go business class rather than contributing to the cost of their stay.

Your HUSBAND needs to take control of this and tell them they need to make a contribution. Your husband should be protecting you from this. They are HIS parents. They are tearing you to pieces and he need to stop them from doing it.

The MN phrase that comes to mind is 'that doesn't work for me'. Tell your husband that the current plan for Christmas doesn't work for you. Its making you ill.

I'm sorry you've had such a terrible time over the years and I'm bloody angry on your behalf at the way your in-laws ride roughshod over you and your family.

I second Jux in the opinion that once you let the anger out, you're worried all hell will break loose.

You have lots of people [albeit it strangers] behind you here, backing you up.

Use this support and make a stand, start small and build up your responses.

They're not due til November, you have time to deal with this.

it costs them so much to come & see us...They won't cancel/change their flights as they always wanted to go business class one time

OK that's their choice. They don't HAVE to go business class. We'd all like to, I'm sure. But they've decided that's what they want to do. So that's why it's costing them so much. Do not back down.

Tabby, you can't change the past.

You CAN change the future! What's the worst that could happen if you stood up to them?

It looks to me like you've broached the subject of money with them twice now, so they know it's a serious issue. I think you (and your husband) have to stand firm and say, bottom line, you can't afford to keep two adults for six weeks. And it wouldn't just be the food and household stuff, it would be extra trips and meals out, and exta petrol.

Bottom line. You can't afford it. They can - they just shelled out thousands, voluntarily, to fly business class.

Right, I'm going to recommend three books I have mentioned over and over on here but I really rate them highly for providing practical help in being assertive. Look for them in your library or for second-hand copies.

Anne Dickson - A Woman In Your Own Right: Assertiveness and You. - this is a really good guide for anyone on being assertive but the title reflects what Dickson says about how this is often particularly difficult for women as we are culturally conditioned to be 'nice' no matter what, as you've said of yourself.

Anne Dickson (again) - Difficult Conversations. This gives you examples and 'scripts' for really hard stuff to talk about with partners, family etc so should help you in preparing a script for dealing with the ILs.

Manuel Smith - When I Say No, I Feel Guilty. This contains advice on the 'broken record' technique for saying no, which you will also find online, but the whole book is helpful for people like you who are struggling with their conditioning to put up with anything and everything.

Try and get hold of one of these at least and see if it helps.

And as has been said, what's the worst that can happen? I guess that they turn up on your doorstep expecting the red carpet treatment anyway. In that case, roll out the ultra cheap noodles...

Also, every evening should be about making music on your home made instruments, and singing the collected works of Westlife. If that doesn't get rid of them...

Tabby - if the visit goes ahead, would I be right in saying that you and dh are going to end up taking on more debt, in order to finance the costs of the visit? If so, I can foresee the two of you breaking your backs to pay off that debt, only to have your PIL announce another visit, which will cost you a shedload more cash, sending you back into debt.

Do you want that for your children? Could you, perhaps, use that as the motivation for you to stand up to your PIL? They do not sound like good grandparents, and anyone who makes you and your dh so unhappy is not going to be good for your children, and it would be no loss if your PIL took the hump and didn't come to visit.

Would it help if we wrote some sample letters for you to send to your PIL? If the Fear, Obligation and Guilt makes it too hard for you to stand up to them on your own, could you make use of us as surrogate backbones, to help you do it this first time? And rest assured, I am NOT saying that in a critical way - it is so obvious to me that you are really struggling with taking those first few steps, and maybe it would be easier with the Might of the Mumsnet Massive behind you.

I'd direct my anger at this abusive, toxic, manipulative fuckwits who are your ILs, tabby.

Your children don't need this.

FUCK them and their fucking holiday. You are not a hotel.

They are taking money from your children and they don't give a shit.

Doesn't that anger you and your husband? Why continue to be a victim? The past is the past, this is you laying down the now.

You don't need to do anything for these people.

They have the means to pay for their own holiday.

They are coming over here to kick you in the teeth because they know they can.