Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships : thread 25

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you?re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you?re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don?t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Popping in, I should spend more time here. Day 4 of not speaking to me..although we had his dgd today, well was meant to be us but he excluded me so much from everything to do with her whilst including our kids obviously (which I would expect of course, they love her too) until I pointed out what he was doing, maybe he felt a little bit of guilt because after I said that he asked me to feed her, her last feed just before he took her home...That really hurt.
Someone mentioned grass cutting, he did ours two weeks ago as I was ill, first time in 8 years and went on and on about what a good job he had done. I believe he did this as I did not thank him or acknowledge he had done it. He does nothing not one damn thing around this house.

Please can someone lay it on the line for me, spell it out, whatever, the kind of person he is. I am struggling to remember he did anything wrong tonight. I feel terrible I miss him. I want to get back to where I was yesterday. I'm obviously not over him if a text can affect me to this extent

I know how you feel, jackie - have been feeling the same about my FW this evening - actually, no, I don't miss him, just feel guilty at walking away.

Do you have any diary or journal or shitlist about him? Really helpful for these times, I find, when memory fails you.

Or do what I'm going to, which is go to bed and trust it's clearer in the morning!

Sorry not to be much help!

Thank you rose I will take your advice before going to sleep tonight
I don't know why it has hit me all over again and I really was doing well. You are right he doesn't deserve my headspace and he DEFINATELY won't be reflecting on it himself

I'm fairly sure I don't want him back as such, I think im hurt knowing he doesn't want me, does that make me sound awful. I feel I've been cast aside like rubbish. I think I probably do still love him though. I need to get back on track to concentrating on myself, that's what's seen me through the last three weeks. I hope you are ok, thank god for MN what would we do without it? Xx

charlotte shit list sounds good must start one to remind mysef how truly awful he could be. Hope you have a good night x

Dearjackie

He left you because he is a fucking idiot. He is selfish. 4 years of being with him and he doesn't give you the respect you deserve to tell you the truth. Either that he has another woman or midlife crisis or whatever his reasons he isn't being honest.
If he was honest with you then you could possibly have some closure.

You deserve so much more.

The text thing is control. He decides when to pick u up and drop u like a hot potato whenever he feels like it. He is reminding you that he can do what he wants and you will be there for him.

Take control my darling. You will be fine. We are all so much stronger than we think we are. Xx

that should have been wine

Curses! Ach.

Speaking of here comes drunken typo ridden philosophical ramble.had friends round tonight and we were talking about the use of drugs that, rather than stopping you feel pain, cause amnesia. sometimes when they set a bone they use them and although you feel pain at the time you don't remember it.and because you do not remember that pain you feel less pain afterwards because part if pain is the memory of pain.
I.e.the purpose of pain is not only the necessary pain of healing but also that you mind remembers that you have been injured and tells your body to feel pain to stop you injuring that part of yourself again before it has had time to heal.

And so i think that is part of the reason we feel so much pain in the immediate aftermath when the abuse stops. to tell us part of us is injured and we must protect it while it heals and so we do not injure it again.

(unfortunately because of traumatic bonding that which causes the pain is also the things which soothes it)
as i was replaying an incident,the recollections triggered by seeing a bottle of water that used to sit on his side of the bed, i realised that i replay these incidents all the time because i am seeing them under a different light. what i saw as a bit a noting or me being part to blame or the wrong thing to do were in fact him being abusive.so although Tbh i could do without re hashing painful things again it is my mind telling me what was wrong to protect me for the future.

There was a debate i heard somewhere about the use of amnesic drugs to prevent ptsd as if you can stop survivors replying traumatic events in the immediate aftermath it may prevent psychological damage.however the flip side is you lose witnesses. so although it might be better for the individual, it is not done because it interferes with the legal case if there is one. for e.g. witnesses to terrible crimes...

So where i am rambling to, is some of the pain we feel is to help us protect ourselves and the remembering is also a recalibration of how we view events and the Way we retreated and whilst it feels like it would be better to forget a lot of it, to let it go, to go round the difficult phase instead of through it, it is necessary to remember and to be a good witness because when it comes down to it there were only two witnesses most of the time...and we are the reliable ones.

So all these things are our mind and body trying to protect us. although the tragic flip side to that can be ptsd.where it is just too much to have to witness it.

mink, I am here in tears because you are right, it is like being injured. But also because, in the first instance, I did forget because -and this is the only explanation I have - I had suffered two bereavements and lots of stress from my dysfunctional family and I was on my own, so concentrated on getting through. And through forgetting, there was everything which followed. It seems so odd, to have forgotten. But then, maybe the act of remembering made me realise what had followed.

But that apart, the implications of what you are saying, the triggers and recollections is time, time to heal, to recognise, so that it does not happen again.

both you and Rose speak sense.

Haven't posted for ages but I am following along I'm just being really pathetic at the moment. Having had the major realization several moths ago that H is abusive, having read Lundy and found him on most pages, I still cannot bring myself to do anything to end this ridiculous situation. It has been the pattern for 20+ years it's all about him/he's got to be the center of attention/only what he wants matters. So obvious, but for my part, I've realized that as long as I do everything he wants, exactly as he wants, everything is OK. I am still wishing for a 'Nigella' moment where he shows his true colours but I don't think it will arrive--- he just doesn't see it that way.

YY to those 'early warnings' H used to always proudly announce to me that he was a b*stard and a bully in our profession (and many others I suppose) it helps to get ahead, to have those qualities so I attributed it to his success, and my lack of those qualities to lack of success. The truth is I and relatively unsuccessful so to speak because I had to make his needs a priority ie, I had to have my phone on at all times at work, had to leave if he 'needed' me to do something for him, etc. He is not a well rounded person, claims to hate the work he does, but is absurdly proud of his success in business (especially when he brags about charging large amounts for what he considers to be 'stupid' work).

I'm rather ashamed of my behaviour, again. We went cycling the other day, which was his idea (NB I hurt my leg badly a week ago and have a huge bruise, doesn't hurt and walking etc OK, I've seen doctor, but I was really conscious that I might knock the pedal against the bruise IYSWIM and that it would go all swollen and hot again) I had suggested we go for a walk instead but he insisted. Anyway I hadn't packed a bottle of water, we got to the village we were heading for and it turned out there was no shop, but a hotel/bar with a garden so he thought we'd go in and have a drink (because he was 'desperate' for a drink, and I'd forgotten the water). But, he doesn't like to lock his bike as he's afraid someone might steal it (spent £2k on it but you cannot tell from looking). So we couldn't figure out how to get into the garden without going through the building... so he sent me inside to ask... the place looked nice and I asked the bartender if we could bring bikes through to the garden, he said no but they had a dedicated bike store where we could lock them. I went out, we looked but could not find it, so I went into the main reception to ask, turns out the dedicated storage was just some railings with a notice, I though this would be fine for 1/2 hour or so but H was furious and said that I should go in and get him a drink and bring it outside so he could drink it standing on the street next to the entrance door and I said no, I wouldn't... I said I'd stand outside with the bikes if he wanted to go in but he didn't want that and was getting angrier and angrier, I ended up saying OK I'd go in and get him a drink, and I sort of 'dropped' my bike, it isn't a fancy one and it was OK, I didn't slam it down... then he said that I was 'having a fit' and never mind he wouldn't get a drink, cycled off, and I had to follow. I've noticed when we go cycling he always has to go ahead of me!

Anyway we got to another village which we knew had a nice pub, took the bikes in and the whole episode wasn't mentioned but I had been upset not because of the ridiculous situation with no shop, etc, but with him saying I was 'having a fit' which I guess I sort of was (?!) but he was putting everything on me this is so so typical. And now (DD got her uni place confirmed last week, excellent work on her part) he wants to go on a family holiday and has been looking on the internet-- I feel mean but I just don't want to go... he's only thinking about what he wants to do (go to beach, DD had wanted to visit Pompeii and Rome but he wants to 'relax' and doesn't want to go to a city). I nicely (?) mentioned that I'd be happy not to go, to save money, and he just tells me to stop being a b*tch!

thats tell him to go on holiday on his own sobhe can relax And you will get a free holiday while he is away

That is typical though making out you have n issue if you don't enjoy the situations they manufacture.

And also I note you forgot the water. my ex used to do that all the time. co.e for days out and scream at me if i had not brought enough food for him. yet never used to see ignore when i said, well what did you bring?

Even my dcs know if you don't eat it is you who gets hungry. so making sure you eat is your own responsibility.

mink what a revelation. That's just it. I can't stop replaying certain events etc because I minimised everything so much while I was in it but my brain knows I need to know how wrong it all was.

thats don't beat yourself up too much. You've been in this situation for a long time. Makes sense that it will not be a simple matter to leave. Keep posting and venting, it does help to sort everything out in your head.

quietcoach I think it's not 'forgetting' it's maybe another brain protection technique - kind of like repressed memory, during a time when the brain can't cope with thinking about it all so it just doesn't. But sometimes, like mink says, you need to remember so you can feel that pain and be reminded that the situation was harmful. Hope you are ok sweetie.

Morning ladies.

thats - don't feel bullied into going away. Stay strong if you don't want to go. My FW likes to have holidays, I think its because 'it's what families DO'. And he was totally being unreasonable with the whole bikes thing, funny how they seem to manage to blow a situation entirely out of proportion, right!

Mink, interesting a not a drunken ramble at all. I know I've repressed lots of memories of what happened to me as a child (being sexually abused was one of them if you can believe that, I 'forgot' about it for years). My Dad was an utter wanker and I know I have memories there I've repressed, same with this relationship. Blocking it out enables you to cope. Which is very sad.

Things are starting to get out of control here. Let me start another post.

Hi girls. Sorry gone awol for a few days. Trying to catch up on posts.
I'm feeling ver like you Jackie right now. Its almost 4 weeks since fw left. If it wasn't for the contact with the children, I think I'd find this process much easier. I'm the sort of person who can try and get on if I know I don't have to see the person.
However, I have to see him for the DC contact. I'm very up and down with my emotions. I can feel strong, like yesterday but then today the sadness and tears are back. I had a weak moment this week as fw was giving me mixed messages about just needibg some time apart "at the moment". As I have been feeling low I saw this as hope that thigs might change. Last night he was around seeing the DC and when they were in bed we had a chat. He just seemed so miserable, depressed and negative about life (not our r/ship as I never discussed this) that i thought "do i really want this type of person in my ife?". I had a moment of strength. When he left I stupidly sent him a text saying I didn't like seeing him like this and maybe given time we could try and be a family again (don't know why i did this after feeling strong earlier in the evening). His reply was "one day the memories will be washed away like tearsin the rain". Only earlier on in the day he was sending me cheery texts with a kiss at the bottom. He really is one mixed up man. Tell me I don't need this in my life!

Nini

Let us know how we can help.

Flora - you don't need this man in your life!

Does he need to come to your place to see the DCs? It's not helping you being able to have proper time apart to heal if you are seeing him for more than just handovers. You don't need to be sitting having chats with him right now, his mood is not your responsibility, you should be focusing on yourself and the DCs. That's maybe why the sadness and tears have returned, because it's confusing to be apart from him but then sitting chatting like normal.

So FW gets home last night. We've barely been talking all week as I said before, due to his shocking behaviour on Sunday. He's been doing the half-arsed apology of cups of tea etc all week. Not having it.

So he gets home and tells me he needs to eat early tonight. I say ok (should have said I'd do my own dinner later, in hindsight). He makes dinner. Usually we eat after DD goes to bed as she begs when we eat. Instead we're eating while she's awake. He doesn't tell me why he needs to eat early (and I should have asked).

He brings his dinner into the living room, and tells DD to 'budge' from where she's sat on the sofa watching cartoons. She protests (she's only 2 and he could easily have sat somewhere else). So he forcibly removes her. Understandably she gets upset and wants her spot back. I think he's being rude and disrespectful to her (my Dad used to do this to me when I was a kid) so I tell him so. He swears, gets up and flounces off to eat in the kitchen.

Starting to get DD ready for bed. Knock at the front door. Turns out he's going out with his friends. He says goodbye to DD (who starts to cry as he usually reads her a story before bed) and I said to him 'thanks for bothering to tell me you were going out'. Off he storms, leaving me to calm DD down and try to explain why Daddy wont be reading a story etc. She's too little to understand.

He didn't come home until 1am despite having work today. And this morning, I made my own cup of tea. He said to me 'did you make me a cup?' I said 'no'. 'OH I SEE THEN.' is his response and off he flounces, refusing to say goodbye to either DD or me when we leave for work/nursery.

So. I'm going to dissect this new turn of behaviour as this has hapened before. Because I've refused his shitty apology for being an utter wanker last sunday, he's pulled a new card - 'I can go out with friends because I have them here, you don't, and you can stay at home with DD all night'. This is a power play. But, I'm not allowed to be annoyed, oh no. I'm the bad one for refusing his apology in the first place, and for NOT MAKING HIM A CUP OF TEA THIS MORNING.

That was a rant. Sorry.

Sorry, x-posts! Flora would a neutral space be better for you to meet so he can see the DCs? Might help you to separate him in your head if that makes sense. And you don't need this man in your life.

Nini - you shouldn't have to ask the why. He should have told you. Not telling you was deliberate. It's crappy to go out like that and not have told you, even not taking into account the why of him doing it (and I think you have seen it for what it is).

Rant away. How go the plans?

Flora agree with the others. try not to let him into your house. was reading a good thread the other day which spanned several months where the op had gone from allowing xp in her house for contact to setting some clear boundaries around contact where he basically had to do it on his own as otherwise he was just coming in and acting like the man of the house and just being there rather than actually focusing on the dc. anyway, the change in her tone over the months as she got him firmly placed on the outside of her front door was obvious to see.

I remember fi, silvery and quiet all saying to me early on (possibly other too ) you do not have to facilitate his contact. his contact his responsibility. and I used to think but how? how? he has to see the kids for their sake. so it is my job to make it happen because they are my responsibility. but now I finally get it. He has to want to see his dcs and if he wants to see them he can sort it out. if he does not want to see them then tragic though that is, a reluctant father who is using contact for control is no use.

one day the memories will be washed away like tearsin the rain
also if he is going to quote blade runner he could at least get it right (sorry big BR geek) but actually that is a very apt point. The point that Roy is making in the film IMO is that life however, brief is about the experiences you have, all the moments. He is saying I have seen wonderful things, things that other people don't see and I appreciate them (despite not being human) and so am sad to die. It is poignant but life affirming not depressing or nihilistic. (and he proves that be saving Deckers life- he sees the point of life not just his own and decides that even though he will die he will do something selfless)

what he is not saying is oh well fuck it all it doesn't matter what you do because you will forget it all in the end (which is what your x seems to be saying). typical FW too aligning themselves to a flawed, tragic but exceptional character.

I think we owe it to ourselves and our dcs to make sure as many of those moments as we can manage are wonderful. It might seem that being a family is idyllic. family days out are what childhood and life should be about.

my dcs and I had wonderful days out when FW and I were together. They were usually the ones where he didn't come

nini What an arse. classic FW power play. I can not only go out leaving you holding the baby but my freedom is so great I neither have to tell you nor ask you before I go. he is basically letting you know your place. (woman) and showing you whose job childcare ultimately is. I bet if you want to go out you have to at the very least tell him, more likely ask him.

this was the main form of control in my rs. kids my job. time off a favour granted by beneficent FW and withdrawn as punishment if I stepped out of line. he could come and go as he pleased, and did he never had to organise childcare. I did literally used to say to him 'can I go out on x day, please' and when I came in after being out (usually just for a swim) if I said anything, anything at all to him e.g. please don't leave sweetie wrapper on the floor for me to pick up or why have you put the dcs to bed with no jammies on he would shout and me and say 'you always do this to me when I am doing you a fucking favour' you never thank me. you are so ungrateful.

sorry long hungover Blade runner ramble