Why does my 26 year old daughter hate me so much.

[cazakstan]

I have 2 daughters of 22 and 26. My eldest left home at 16 after an argument and for the past almost 11 years has visited and stayed occasionally. She's just finishing a masters degree and has nowhere else to live and so has been staying at home with myself, my partner and my younger daughter. I must admit my relationship is not fantastic...it's always hard with her...it's like she has always had a bee in her bonnet with me. It's easier with my youngest daughter...what you see is what you get and we have a great relationship...but...my eldest...god...for the past 11 years it's been like walking on egg shells...she criticises almost everything I do or buy for her. She,s well travelled, educated, has a steady boyfriend. It has been getting harder each visit. Yesterday she would not stop criticising my younger daughter...my mother was here visiting...my youngest ended up in tears and left...even after that my eldest did not let up.. even after I asked her several times and then told her to shut the fuck up. My mother said she thought WW3 was about to erupt...she offered to take my eldest home with her...I said that was a good idea...give the situation a couple of days to cool off. It ended up with my eldest saying that she would be homeless, not be able to finish her masters and that she would never see me again. My mother left with my eldest. I had little sleep last night. I messaged her this morning saying that I did not throw her out, that she needed to get on with her life and not be making comments on my daughters life or mine, also that she needed to lighten up. That I was her mother and that she would always be welcome home, that she needed us as a family. 10 minutes later she replied...we were not a family, we do not behave like a proper family, that she has got on with her life without a family and continue to do so. OMG. My mother phoned me early evening to say that my daughter needed her books and clothes...I said that since my daughter was being so nasty to me that it was maybe best that my partner drop her stuff off thus avoiding a confrontation between her and I. My mother passed the phone to my daughter who immediately called me two faced then said why can't I talk to her like an adult. I hung up. I hung up to avoid any arguments. So that's where I am...I love her but don't like her. I don't like her animosity towards me and I cannot bear to argue with her. I want her to be happy and to get over whatever it is that makes her hate me.

I am trying my best to keep the peace on this thread.

Peace enough, so that the mum feels she can speak what is on her mind and about very difficult issues in her own past and present.
And peace enough so that some headway may hopefully be made between herself and her daughter.

It has been a surprisingly[probably that is me being naive] difficult and fraught thread. As there are posters who deeply identify with the mum, and many posters who deeply identify with the daughter.

fwiw, I have not had issues like this with my own several children in their early 20's[yes there is a multiple involved].

In an ideal thread, both sides[mum and daughter] would be able to put their point of view, but very rarely do we get the privilege of that. [had it last week when a thread I was on about a woman complaining about how much housework her husband does, and then the husband came on and put his point of view.]

springytoots. To my mind, the op has asked for help, or at least some insight.
And ultimately, I think we all want there to be a better relationship between the daughter and her mum.

Thank you for your support Special - what a nice surprise

I'd have to say that the abuse can get so bad that there comes a time when you have to withdraw and take stock - which can seem cold. eg 'it's not my fault' (put simplistically). Surprisingly, it's quite important to get your head straight about things. You can get totally lost in the hell and confusion. (We are also mothers/parents and it is our default to assume we've got something wrong and to scrape the cupboard bare looking for it. You have to learn when to stop scraping and to look in the other direction, as contrary to instinct as that may feel.)

I would also counsel very strongly against having counselling with someone who is abusive. Very sadly, that can mean your own child. I'm not saying it is always the case - some things can get worked out; but you have to know what you're dealing with: do they want to step up and work things out, or will they use it all to abuse you more? Please don't anyone think that a 'child's' abuse is somehow less toxic than an adult's: it's all the same stuff and damages in exactly the same way (though desecrates would probably be more of an apt word . You are not immune just because you are their parent with a thick coating of love on you to protect you - it doesn't protect you ime.).

I think to tell the OP that she should crawl/bow to her daughter with protestations of love etc are seriously misguided. Love is not always the magic bullet. Her daughter is in her 20s, an adult now. Her daughter has to learn to bear her own weight as an adult. You wouldn't go crawling/bowing to an abusive partner - this is no different, sadly.

A lot of the 'advice' has been seriously misguided imo - and quite obviously partisan. It has been very heavily indeed on the 'side' of the daughter. That is quite clear.

It seems to me that the thrust of this thread has been to get the OP to see what a bad person she is and how she has caused the current difficulties. This is simplistic and dangerous imo and there has been very obvious projection on this thread towards the OP.

Which is dangerous imo.

OP get professional support (and when you find it, tell me how you got it... )

Im currently aving a terrible time with my 17 yr old. She too has made a friend who has a wonderful mother, "cool and not naggy' not like me apparently. Teenagers are easily influenced by outsiders and the grass is always greener.
my ds is rude, selfish and belligerant. She absolutely cannot stand the sight of me, her hatred is very open for EVERYONE to see. I also have a younger daughter who i have an easier relationship with (so far ), this upsets my ds no end.
Like some of you, i had a truly terrible childhood and my husband an i have clawed our way up with sheer hard work and determination. Our daughters have enjoyed living all over the world and private educations. Unfortunately my oldest child is incredibly superior and entitled and witholds any pleasure at being around us, in order, i suspect to make me try harder.
I'm currently in th process of organising a therapist, ds has one more year before she leaves for Uni and i'm hoping to get some sort of understanding between us before she goes.
I totally disagree with the past statements. I believe you should be very proud of yourself. Are you aware of the statistics relating to the future of children of single parents? You should definately have some of the credit. I suspect your ds has identity issues with her place within the family and is insecure.
Give yourself a break you deserve it. As for the STFU comment. I'm not proud to say ive said much worse, i have had drop down fights with my daughter. I dont advicate this and it is not constructive parenting. But i am human and i have faults and i dont always behave how i should.
I'm prepared for the outrage and self rightous, sanctamonius comments but i dont care. Come back when you are the parent of adults and then we'll talk.
Be proud of yourself, thank you for the educated and worthwhile adults you've contributed to our society. Ignore the ignorant haters, they are not the moral compass by which you should live your life. Xx

We are also mothers/parents and it is our default to assume we've got something wrong and to scrape the cupboard bare looking for it. You have to learn when to stop scraping and to look in the other direction, as contrary to instinct as that may feel.

This I can understand. As a mentally ill teenager, it was amazing the amount of people who blamed mum (not dad OFC!) There was no abuse, I was just severely mentally ill. Mum blamed herself. It didn't help obviously until someone figured out what was wrong I was full of rage and have said and done things with I am deeply ashamed of, but am always scolded and yelled at told by parents not to blame myself because it 'was the illness, not our Special.'

Then you become a mother. And people who you've known your whole life suddenly eel (when you're ALREADY PREGNANT I feel is important to add) can say want selfish, horrible people you are for having DC when you know, you're like you. The sheer contempt shocked and still does shock me. Who the hell says that to a happy couple announcing pregnancy?!?

After that, people sniffing at the cloth nappies and chocolate milk really didn't seem a big bloody deal. [silver lining]

Counselling with someone abusive is wrong, I totally agree. I don't want to out myself so this is vague but parents with 'children like me' were not advised for family counselling (before diagnosis and medication) because they knew I needed individual help and wouldn't be able to understand my family's worries which while obviously frustrated and angry, were worried about me!

What would you suggest OP does Springy? I've nowt seen you give bad advice yet.

Yes there were a lot of angry daughters. And probably they had good reason to be upset with their own parents behaviour. But a lot of them took on board that no daughter/mum relationship is exactly the same. And that this mum does want to put in some effort to trying to at least understand what is going on.

I am sorry but I have to gulp a bit at the calling of the daughter abusive. I dont think there is enough information of here to call her that. Upset, angry and lashing out, yes. But abusive?

springy. Both sides have had counselling in the past, which the op says did help a bit.

Aw no performance pressure then LOL!

I would suggest the OP:

• get therapy for herself. She has a long and very abusive history. It won't be pleasant. It will take a long time and will be a can of worms

• does what she can to get daughter away from toxic grandma. She will very probably resoundingly fail on this. But don't be obvious, be wiley.

• uphold very firm boundaries with her dd. This is the long haul, it may take a long time (years and years ). Being ever present and available may not suit some disorders eg

• If she hasn't stated it already - and I'm sure she has innumerable times - clamly tell her daughter she loves her and is proud of her (be specific). Don't labour it - it's been said (and meant), there's nothing to add as a means of coaxing out some decency in her daughter - but say it intermittently. Ignore any insults in response (but the call/meeting etc)

• = uphold boundaries repeatedly and consistently eg boundaries against abuse of any kind: if abuse makes an appearance, disband the meeting immediately. State (not nice, not nasty) she is loved but that doesn't mean she can abuse (in fact, to let her abuse is not to 'love' her iyswim).

• get off this thread. Don't justify yourself to people who have't got a clue and have a vested interest in seeing you 'pay' for your daughter's poor behaviour.

That's off the top of my head, anyway.

*but cut the call/meeting etc

Springy, I am not familiar with your personal situation, though it sounds very difficult.

I think that it is very sad that you feel your child has abused you, but you are doing the same as what you are accusing others on this thread of doing. You are letting your own situation cloud how you see the daughter in the OP.

There is a question in the title of this thread, people have read the information given and are suggesting to the OP why her daughter might hate her (or atleast why it might feel like that.) I am afraid that your usage of the term "abusive" in relation to ones own children doesnt sit well with me. I am sure it happens, perhaps more than we think, but it is not fair to suggest that the OPs daughter is abusive.

Sorry Springy But I happen to think your advice (except leaving this thread) is good, you're saying what other posters are suggesting but from the parents POV.

Telling OP to leave MN though? YABVVVVVU

I am speaking simplistically but the victim blaming on this thread has been shocking. I am really hard-pushed to think of another example so bad in years. It went on and on and on. And on. And ON.

Just evening up the balance a bit. There are TWO sides to the story - OP's [potential] side has been consistently and repeatedly ignored. Which is out of balance. Some self-styled therapists have settled in, marshalling the thread and working on OP to accept she is Bad and At Fault.

Abuse. Look it up. It happens all the time.

I sincerely wish I was ignorant about parental abuse too, wannabe . Yet you have posted extensively on this thread without having any knowledge, or indeed awareness, that such a thing exists. Which makes your input on this thread unbalanced: yet you have posted with passion and certainty when you don't have, and seem to refuse to face, some basic facts about abuse; much less abuse of parents by their children.

springy - I am sorry you have had a bad time, but I can only process through my own filters. We all have them, and sometimes they are helpful, sometimes they are not and it just helps to acknowledge them.

It sounds like the relationship between grandmother, mother and daughter has had problems for a very long time. I found it very helpful to step back sometimes and instead of viewing my mother as my mother but as an adult with their own personality. It was very helpful to me, and I thought it would be a useful strategy for the OP to have a look at her daughter through a different lens. Sometimes just taking a step back and gearing down the relationship can make things a lot easier to negotiate. It worked for me in a very damaged relationship with my mother. I believe it may work in a damaged relationship between the OP and her daughter. Whether it is a toxic mother, a toxic daughter or two people who have lost their way, the relationship is damaged.

OP - have you thought about what would be the best outcome for you?

Springy, your posts are implying that there is only one victim in the OPs situation. There are two. The mother and the daughter.

Since the daughter is not on MN I cannot tell her to stop being a twat to her younger sister, to stop lashing out at her mum and talk to her calmly instead, or to get away from her toxic grandmother. I can only encourage the OP to accept her faults in this (she has been abusive to her daughter too remember) and hope that the two of them can reconnect.

I have not claimed myself to be anything other than a regular poster on MN and certainly not a therapist (theres a disclaimer at the top of the page too.) I do not need to have experienced parental abuse to be able to give my opinion.

I have seen daughters sabotage their mother's happiness, and my own relationship with my mother wasn't good. It can work both ways. However I personally strongly believe that a lot of the heat can be taken away from the situation by talking away the label 'mother' and 'daughter' and replacing it with people. Some people are better at nurturing relationships, or damaging, or easily upset, but that is people for you. Sometimes people just don't get on, and that's it. If you start at that level then I think that it may be possible to build good bridges. It may be that the mother/daughter relationship has gone with the wind after over ten years of damage, but you can still build friendship.

That's just my opinion. I hope it is helpful.

RE

If someone posts that their partner shouts at them, insults them, uses them, picks them up and drops them... we say LTB (or some such)

But an adult 'child' can do it and we say 'Poor love. She's feeling insecure/jealous/frightened' etc (many etcs)

then blame the parent, particularly the mother. Particularly if she has to outrageous cheek to express that she is upset, angry, infuriated, feels powerless, at the end of her rope. No, she has to be the Virgin Mary Mother. she has to be all-giving, all-knowing, ever patient, wise and loving. She is not allowed to be angry and hurt.

yet the 'child' is an adult.

Abusers abuse because they can .

I am a bit stunned by the latest posts, tbh.
Firstly, I think most people are happy to point out they are neither psychotherapists nor counsellors, and many are equally happy to cite personal experience where relevant and sometimes not. We all bring our own baggage to the table. es, I had a lousy childhood, and could be accused of having serious mother issues which I may have brought to the table..... but as it happens I also went through a truly dreadful time with my DD aged 17-19. Years I would not want to live through again. So as far as I can see, that experience comes to the table as well, and balances things out.

I see this thread very differently. The OP was starkly challenged on the first post because few responders saw it as an OK response to the daughter. Challenging is a good thing.
Replies could have offered a broadscale "you were right, go no contact and the hell with it". Personally, I can't see that responses of that sort are of much help to anyone. Those of us who did post - me included - asked the poster to come back and talk. To explain more.
And she had the courage to do that. At which point, a lot more of the story came out. Including the long-term difficulties with family issues. At which point the tenor shifted to a more supportive mode, and the OP began to ask real questions about changing things.....and most importantly, began to view things in a wider perspective. She then asked how issues could be worked through.

Once past the first post, and the OP had given some some insight into why things might be happening rather than just venting, people who had stuck with it became more supportive of the OP - actively suggesting she could take charge of managing the situation, and could make positive change to the way she handled things. Hopefully giving the chance to improve how both she and her daughter feels.
How this relates to being told she should "run for the hills", I have no idea. As far as I can see its about telling someone that they don't have to be the victim of past experiences, but can move forward positively. That's empowerment.

I absolutely believe that where it is possible, the best way to open dialogue between warring parents/children is for one party to have the courage to sit down and say "I am listening". I want to hear how you feel". Because that opens a basis for discussion. It does not mean taking the blame - beyond apologising for where you know you erred - and it does not mean never being able to say your piece. But unless someone climbs off the high horse for long enough to fix things .... relationships can stay broken for a very long time, perhaps permanently.

OP - take what you will from this thread. If you view it as a car crash, then ignore everything and run for the hills, as suggested. If anything that was said has challenged you to look at things differently, and that works for you, ....then great. Either way, I hope things work out well.

I doubt very much if OP hasn't been challenging herself to look at things differently, every which way, upside, downside, inside out.

...except recognising that her daughter is abusing her. Her daughter who is an adult. Her daughter who wouldn't talk to the queen/her tutor/her friends/a shop assistant/her boyf (or maybe she does? now she's learned she can get away with it in a domestic setting?) the way she talks to her mother. So her daughter can control it, just chooses not to.

Get the abuse out of the way - zero tolerance - and there could be at least some hope of plumbing the real depths, finding out what is really going on. Takes some time mind - particularly if someone has been lavished with 'love' to behave appallingly badly, throwing their weight around, making the world/family carry their weight.

What I am outlining are the bare bones (it doesn't always go swimmingly, of course ) - I am specifically outlining them because of the, in my view, wild goose chase/victim-blaming on this thread that the OP must be at fault. Not necessarily. Her daughter is an adult - time she started behaving like one, first off. (Both of you, if that is appropriate.)

Jesus. Enough of the cries of abuse already.

At 16 the daughter was still a child. Issues were not dealt with then. And here we are.

You are being extremely selective springy. You have an agenda. IMO your posts are the most dangerous on this thread and your advice could well end up being the most damaging.

springy. If the op were to run for the hills, what then?
How does that in any way help or or her daughter?

2 questions I have been pondering this afternoon.
When is a child, an adult in all of this? My answer, I dont know. I dont know how they would suddenly leap to one/become one.
And actually, that question is quite pertinent for the mum herself too.

[I struggle with calling them people, partly for this reason. And also, because as regards this thread, and other parent/daughter relationships, the mother has added years of hopefully wisdom, and hopefully parents still feel able to try and nurture, so they are not at the same point].

abuse. "get the abuse out of the way - zero tolerance". I cant see how that would work in any daughter/mum relationship. I cant see how a daughter can just suddenly do this. She cant switch off her feelings, any more than mum can.

I dont know what constitutes abuse exactly.
If mum and daughter are both having shouty rows a lot, when does a row mean abuse? People have shouty rows in just about every household up and down the land.

Yes, daughter, if she is reading this, and she wants a better relationship with her mum, which I think she does, ideally she could try and control herself and her feelings.
But right now, she has exam stress.
After that, LisaMeds idea of starting in a non confrontational way, in a non confrontational place amd whatever else she said, might be a good thing to do amongst other things posted on here.

When she started on your other daughter, I would have said 'you are upsetting your sister, do you consider that appropriate behaviour? Please cease upsetting her or leave the room.'

As for her books, if she wants them she can come and get them.

Honestly, never have I read such tripe. Sorry to be abusive but, really, you lot are something else. Please, do some research, find out about the subject before you wade in with pronouncements.

As for ^If the op were to run for the hills, what then?
How does that in any way help or or her daughter?^

I know this is hard to grasp, being as the stuff on here is so wise and all, but maybe SHE CAN GET BALANCED SUPPORT ELSEWHERE.

I know, shocking thought.

Another little lesson: you can have feelings - very strong feelings - but they don't have to be expressed abusively.

See? all quite simple, all fits in nicely with being human.

I'm astonished that such rank ignorance has held sway for so many pages of this thread tbf.

The only poster being anything other than calm here springy, is you.

Infact, and I say this kindly, you sound slightly hysterical.

Perhaps this has been triggering for you, but the tone of your messages is unnecessary.