Am I paranoid or could he be cheating?

[amijustparanoid]

DH and I went to his works summer party on Friday night and something that I witnessed with him and a female colleague has been bothering me ever since. When we got there he seemed to make a big effort to sit us on the same table as her - throughout the meal she seemed ok, they were friendly but not overly friendly but later on when I was away from the table I saw him get up and move seats to sit next to her (it was late and people had started to move around/leave so at that time it was only those two at the table) and as he sat down he squeezed her thigh. It was very quick but it definitely happened. Then as I was watching they sat and chatted and while chatting he was helping himself to her drink. She didn't seem to react to either and didn't look surprised at what he was doing.

When I asked him about it on the way home he denied it had happened and when I brought it up again yesterday and said I'd definitely seen him do it and I thought it was inappropariate, he made light of it and said he was drunk and would just have been being friendly. I said I wasn't comfortable with him being that 'friendly' with another woman - especially one that he spends all day at work with but now he says I'm being ridiculous.

What do you think? Would you do something like this if drunk even if there was nothing going on with the person? He says the drink thing is nothing but I wouldn't help myself to someone elses drink unless we were close and used to sharing.

My friend thinks he was being a drunken idiot and says that if there was something going on with her then he would have tried to keep us apart and not sit us with her but I can't shake how uneasy it's made me feel. Before that night I had no suspicions anything was wrong, I'd never even heard of her before but now I'm sitting here dreading tomorrow knowing that he'll be with her all day at work.

Am I being silly over a couple of minor things or would this bother you?

Your instincts are telling you something isn't right and everything you have found out adds weight to that. Sorry OP, I don't know what you can do to stop it.

I understand my views can be totally different from the majority of view points posted here and the post regarding my 1950 outlook and best ignored - are you saying ... girls .. this chick doesn't think like us let's send her to Coventry?. We all have a different outlooks on life. Let's fast forward ... divorce, courts, family home sold, whole lifestyle downgraded, family and friends divided, lone parent, double workload and responsibilities, no social life, loneliness, financial struggle, depression. Him - born again bachelor, jumps straight in to his second spring. Father Christmas to the kids who he may or not be able to see... because Jane, June or Jackie, wants him to take her away for the weekend, she's tired after getting that manicure that he treated her. Please don't take me totally literal, your getting the picture. Did all of the above just happen to me ... or did not happen to me?.

Yes.... I'm being as serious as a heart attack when I say be nice to him. It's about being smart ... giving yourself time to plan... take that degree, open a secret bank account, have a few indiscretions yourself..... then you decide when your marriage ends - 1950's outlook?.

Echoes of a well-known public figure. I did not have sex with that woman.

You may have thought you were wed to someone of integrity. It is sad when duplicitous people bank on their partner's faith in them to continue to trust them when faced with very dubious behavioir.

Am not making light of OP's situation, but I love the Bill Clinton aside.
Deb do you really think that it would be worse for OP to LTB than to stay and be "nice" to him? I would be far too bloody angry and seething for that to ever happen.
It's shitty when you find out that the person you thought cared and respected you as much as you did them turns out to be a lech who can't control himself. and even worse when they claim that it is you who are making a mountain out of a molehill
Best to walk away in order to save what little sanity you have left.

I would get DCs out of the way for a night and get him to sit down and talk to you. You take turns talking, no shouting. You explain how you feel, perhaps write it down first so you don't forget things, he says what he feels which could be overworked? was he just bored? jealous of DCs? no longer in love with you? has fallen for OW and can't give her up?
You can ask has he thought about the future if you split? Will he be able to live with the hurt he causes DCs? etc etc etc
And try to both thrash out what this is really about. And, as you have all evening, make plans for the future, together or single.

oh, and repeat as often as required until you feel you have aired everything you want to.

OP I have watched this thread from the start and have on many occasions been thinking of you, I feel so so terrible for you, I can't believe he has done this, especially when you thought everything had been fine prior to the knee grab, it scares me because it means he is a good liar, he was drunk when he felt this woman's leg, he was again drunk when he blurted out what had happened, it seems when he is sober he lies very well and minimises everything, please be weary of this.

If I were in your shoes, if I were to forgive him I'm not sure i could bear them going to work together never mind working trips away, this would indeed be a deal breaker, he needs to decide what is more important, you and DC or OW and work...

I really just want to give you a hug! Chin up xxx

Of course they have had sex, but I think the OP probably knows that really. Yes, he's still lying and will try to minimise, especially when sober.

I am sorry, OP.

oops!!! when I came on line I only read as far Debs ... 1950's outlook best ignored and sent the above. Then went back to read the following posts to discover it's out.
Yes ' I did not have sex with that woman' now his wife - very smart woman. Victoria Beckham? - smart woman, mmmmmmh!!! even in the face of public humility?? but why do us smart women this 1950's outlook - what's your views Anyfucker?

Deb, what you seem to advocate is playing games. That's not a relationship I would want to be bothered with in any situation at all: it would damage me, my children and my husband. In addition, the wives you mention had a huge amount of money, status and career opportunity to gain from staying with their husbands, which is not in fact the norm. And there's no indication the OP is married to a serial adulterer, either, so how about you focus on her situation and her needs instead of your own fantasies? If you want to discuss your views then there are plenty of more appropriate places here on MN. Start a thread there. This is about a specific woman in a very hard situation asking for moral and emotional support. Please provide such support, or choose another thread to post in.

He still doesn't think he had an affair - he describes it as a friendship that crossed the line

Not sure i'll ever be able to trust him again

Oh dear! THAT then is your biggest problem.Not the fact that he had an EA or a physical affair, but the fact that he sees no real damage done.

AIJP - I'm so sorry to read what has been happening with your H. I have followed your thread from the start and been prompted to post by your latest post where he state he's still in denial mode. He is failing to recognise the severity of his actions and minimising it which is insulting and disrespectful. He needs to take responsibility for HIS choices in order for there to be any chance of reconciling. You will doubt everything that comes out of his mouth and its extremely unlikely that a man used to lying to you will suddenly be truthful now until he faces the reality of what he stands to lose.
I'm going through something similar - my H 'confessed' his affair to me 12 weeks ago as he was caught at work. After 24hrs of minimising and denying a friend's husband told him in no uncertain terms that he had to be completely honest with me to have any chance. H prepared a 'timeline' and has probably told me maybe 90% of his story. However he has still lied to me about other things since then (his porn use for example) and has also found it easy to hang the blame of the affair on various hooks eg our relationship, me being controlling, his upbringing, low self-esteem, work stress - anything other than him being a selfish entitled twat!! Over the last 2-3 weeks he is beginning to face up to his inner demons but he is still showing that side of himself and has such an incredibly long way to go in his journey of self awareness that I'm almost certain that I'm 'out'.

Sorry posted too early - also meant to say good luck and I hope he sees the extent of what he has done in order to come to his senses. Regardless of what he thinks he should care enough about you to respect your feelings about his actions. And feel sorry for hurting you rather than belittling your pain and distress.

OP you need to ask yourself Do you want to save this marriage?
If yes, then you need to sit your DH down and ask him bluntly how he would feel in your shoes. Ask him how he would feel about you going out this evening with a male colleague who you found attractive, and who found you attractive. Who had invited you to go for a meal or a drink with him.
Ask him how THAT would make HIM feel.
If he claims it would not bother him then he obviously sees marriage and all its commitments as unimportant.

So sorry OP, he knows he has done wrong. If she was that close a friend why didn't you know about her earlier? He's not mentioned her much before because he knows it's wrong.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is already suspicion in his work about their relationship. Sitting you both at the same table could be an attempt to deflect this.

If you can't trust him your relationship is doomed. I'd ask him if she was worth imploding his family over, because that's what he's done.

A friendship that crossed the line is an affair. At the very least it's an EA, but his insistence on no sex is unconvincing.

He's minimising because he doesn't want to lose you, and he thinks you would more easily forgive a small mistake than a bigger one. So you must explain that, in fact, in order not to lose you he must come clean about everything and own the damage he's done. That is the only ground on which a relationship can be rebuilt.

You don't trust him or believe him and until you feel satisfied he is telling the truth, there's no way forward.

Sorry, when I posted I somehow missed page 2.

I'm sorry you are going through this AIJP. I feel so angry with your H. Not really sure what to say except I'm thinking of you. You have to do what is best for you now. It doesn't sound like he is in a place where he wants to take responsibility for his actions.

I think he does know how bad it is but won't admit it to me/himself yet. Think he's been telling himself that it wasn't as bad as a full blown 'in love with someone else' affair. He said they were just messing around, he was bored and she paid him attention and he was stupid. I've told him it doesn't make it better, worse if anything that he'd risk us for that if he supposedly doesn't even have any feelings for her (am not sure 'just fun' goes on that long unless you have at least some feelings for someone anyway?)

I do believe they haven't have piv sex but it's been physical, 'everything but' to me is just as bad. I said about the intimacy and it not adding up if she really regretted it why did she still allow him to touch her and continue the messages/flirting etc. He said that he thought she just felt guilty about the physical stuff and thought that was going too far (shame both of them didn't think that a long time ago).

I said for him to continue it all he must have been hoping to change her mind and hoping that something physical would happen again. He didn't really deny it :( Apparently they kissed another time as well. Think I need the proper timeline someone mentioned- all these little things he's adding are driving me crazy.

He says he'll do whatever it takes - he is going to look for another job and is not going to this weeks course. I believe that even if she wanted him that he'd choose us over her, but I worry that what he wants is the family life we have with dd and not me.

Scary thing is that until I saw it with my own eyes a week ago I had no idea, so while I think I have a pretty good idea of when he's lying and not to my face, obviously he's managed to keep all of this from me for months and that scares me.

Sorry if that's all jumbled - despite how it may sound I'm definitely not feeling very calm and collected

Please don't forget that liars get to believe the lies they tell themselves too, so it can be hard to tell. The more time he has to think things through the more believable and honest he will seem. Please try and find evidence and corroboration from other sources (people, emails, texts, bills)

So he had admitted 'stuff' happened on more than one occasion. It might be worth telling him to stay somewhere else for a few days until YOU decide what YOU want to do and that way you can get some space/clarity.

Think about what you would do if you forgave him this time and he did this again in a few years, could you cope with that?

Personally he has proved himself to be a liar and treated you very shabbily since your first suspicions - not sure if I could ever trust someone again after that. Good luck, Op x

I'm really glad he has said he will do whatever it takes, including looking for a new job and not going on the course. That is a big turn around from the way he was dismissing it at first. I'm just so sorry you've been so hurt. It is very natural for you to be questioning if he really wants you as opposed to the family unit. It is all so fresh and awful now.

It is very important to find out absolutely everything now so as to get it all in the open - it is only from there that you can move on, whichever way that might be. If you were healing having decided to stay in the relationship and you found out new stuff it would be a disaster, more hurt, pain, more mistrust. And for you at this point, you will be making an informed decision as to what you want, which I think you can only do with full disclosure. Again, more information at a later date would only negate any trust you had rebuilt, or make an amicable split much more difficult. He has to see this.