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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Am I paranoid or could he be cheating?

289 replies

amijustparanoid · 21/07/2013 18:57

DH and I went to his works summer party on Friday night and something that I witnessed with him and a female colleague has been bothering me ever since. When we got there he seemed to make a big effort to sit us on the same table as her - throughout the meal she seemed ok, they were friendly but not overly friendly but later on when I was away from the table I saw him get up and move seats to sit next to her (it was late and people had started to move around/leave so at that time it was only those two at the table) and as he sat down he squeezed her thigh. It was very quick but it definitely happened. Then as I was watching they sat and chatted and while chatting he was helping himself to her drink. She didn't seem to react to either and didn't look surprised at what he was doing.

When I asked him about it on the way home he denied it had happened and when I brought it up again yesterday and said I'd definitely seen him do it and I thought it was inappropariate, he made light of it and said he was drunk and would just have been being friendly. I said I wasn't comfortable with him being that 'friendly' with another woman - especially one that he spends all day at work with but now he says I'm being ridiculous.

What do you think? Would you do something like this if drunk even if there was nothing going on with the person? He says the drink thing is nothing but I wouldn't help myself to someone elses drink unless we were close and used to sharing.

My friend thinks he was being a drunken idiot and says that if there was something going on with her then he would have tried to keep us apart and not sit us with her but I can't shake how uneasy it's made me feel. Before that night I had no suspicions anything was wrong, I'd never even heard of her before but now I'm sitting here dreading tomorrow knowing that he'll be with her all day at work.

Am I being silly over a couple of minor things or would this bother you?

OP posts:
Apileofballyhoo · 27/07/2013 15:25

oh shit OP, I'm sorry. I can't imagine how much pain you must be in.

Original poster
amijustparanoid · 27/07/2013 15:31

We have talked more but haven't got anywhere. Last night he was so drunk he was just blurting stuff out but now he's gone back to minimising it all.

I do believe he hasn't had sex with her because what he told me last night was just as bad as if he had, that he'd have done it if she hadn't stopped it. Today he described it as a 'drunken fumble' I think all week I'd been trying to tell myself that he may have got innocently close and not realised that it was going too far but knowing this happened weeks ago and instead of stepping back he continued and was obviously still pursuing it with the thigh squeeze etc. makes it so much harder for me to think about forgiving him.

He says he's sorry and that he'll stop all contact with her apart from work but still doesn't seem to think it was that awful. What he does makes it difficult to just move but don't know if I can live with them working together.

I've told him to leave for tonight. I just want to be on my own. When I asked if he was going to her, he said she had a boyfriend and that it had never been like that, they've never talked about being together it was just a friendship that went too far.

I don't understand why she got involved either

OP posts:
DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 27/07/2013 15:53

I wondered if he told his brother who gave him a bollocking and suggested he own up. In the cold light of day H backpedals because he thinks he may yet convince OP she is overreacting. What part of "crossed a line" does he not get? Is he still going on that trip? Is he more worried about losing face at work if this gets out? Hardly an abject apology.

I was going to say at least he didn't swear on DD's life he was blameless. If he utters that he is taking you for a bigger fool.

Apileofballyhoo · 27/07/2013 16:42

The fact that he doesn't think it was that awful is very worrying. It is awful. It is really really awful. Thinking it is not a big deal shows a disregard for your feelings apart from anything else. Unless deep down he knows it is awful and he is trying to minimise it in his own head? I can't see how you can move on when he doesn't think it's a big deal. Surely he should be very remorseful and asking for forgiveness? And examining the behaviour that led up to something like this? (His own behaviour and perhaps the general state of your relationship etc.) He sounds quite emotionally detached from you.

thismousebites · 27/07/2013 16:53

Hate to say this, but LTB.
You will never be able to trust him again, and he doesn't think he's done anything wrong.
It's only a matter of time before you catch him squeezing someone else's thigh.Sad

ProphetOfDoom · 27/07/2013 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tessa6 · 27/07/2013 18:17

I'm very sorry, OP. Bear in mind that there's often little logic behind minimising. Often someone will admit to something 'just as bad' emotionally speaking but deny having sex because at least that line hasn't been crossed over for their partner (in terms of pregnancy, STD or just the 'infidelity' line). It doesn't mean he's telling the truth.

Of course he could be but even so, as you say, he had every intention of doing it. And his minimising since is insulting and frustrating. I'd be very wary of you getting any full truth out of him and aim for computer and phone and bills instead.

PopiusTartius · 27/07/2013 18:44

I don't believe you've had the full truth from him yet. I'm so sorry.

Twinklestein · 27/07/2013 19:26

I'm not convinced that they've not had sex, the casual intimacy that you saw at the party takes some time to develop. I don't know that you'd get it from a one off.

I was struck by your husband saying that "I'd made this week hell for him by being obsessed with her".

It's very odd to accuse you of being obsessed with her, given that you'd not discussed it that much: I wonder if he's attributing to you what's going on in his own head.

Perhaps he's a bit obsessed. I hope it hasn't gone too far physically, and that being caught out makes him come to his senses. I hope, if you want to stick with the marriage this can be fixed.

But if he wants to save his marriage, he's got to come clean.

clam · 27/07/2013 19:37

I'm in two minds whether to post anymore on this one, as my thoughts are only going to cause more angst for the OP. But you've got to get to the bottom of it all before you'll ever get any peace of mind.

That thigh-squeeze doesn't match up with "a drunken fumble." A drunken fumble indicates something both would rather forget, and therefore no physical touch in public would be necessary. A thigh-squeeze means "I can't talk to you, or touch you properly at the moment because it's not safe but here's a quick reminder that I'm thinking about you."

And "a drunken fumble" is minimising speak for something unacceptable. Any physical groping is very bad for a married/committed person. 'Even' a kiss, in my book.

MadAboutHotChoc · 27/07/2013 19:58

I agree that his accusation re you having obsession with OW is actually deflection - he is the one who has been obsessed Sad

Also no way was it just a drunken fumble - they have been shagging...their easy intimacy is very telling.

I am not one of the LTB brigade but I think the best way to force the truth and this is also your only chance of saving the marriage is to ask him to go away and give you time and space to think things through. He needs to understand what he stands to lose.

welshharpy · 27/07/2013 21:07

He is so remorseful he picks an argument with you, blames you for obsessing over this OW, then says a 'fumble' with her wasn't really that bad and he will still be seeing her during work hours but no contact after work?

Yes I am sure that is bound to put your mind at ease Hmm

So sorry op x

Original poster
amijustparanoid · 27/07/2013 21:20

Clam - it's hard to hear but I do appreciate everyones thoughts.

I asked him to come back as needed more answers - apparently what he described earlier as a drunken fumble was them sleeping in the same bed and doing practically everything but which to me is just as bad as if they'd done it.

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 27/07/2013 21:34

I'm so sorry to say this, but I've read a depressing number of these threads on MN in the 5 years I've been a poster, and 9 times out of 10 the cheater insists they did "everything but" once they've got past the total denial stage.

I used to think the women stating it was an affair from the start were totally over-reacting and I actually used to be annoyed by what I saw as jumping to conclusions on almost no evidence. As time has passed, I don't think I've ever read a single thread where they were wrong, when that has been the near-unanimous response. (I've read two where women were firmly told they were panicking without grounds, and it turned out they were, but not one where people were pretty sure the dirty was being done.)

A one-off drunken fumble, never repeated, doesn't lead to a knee-squeeze and casual drink from the other's glass where the wife is momentarily stepping away from the table. The risk taken to nurture the cheating link, and the disrespect - I am so sorry - for you of that little situation is staggering, and quite disgusting. And I just don't see that arising from a regrettable, one-off, drunken mistake. Nobody risks their wife picking up on that level of intimacy if the intimacy is past, and a one-off, and regretted. (If a one-off, that level of intimacy wouldn't exist, either.)

I think he's still minimising. I don't think this is at all the truth. I think it's as much of the truth as he's willing to offer now, but I think you may need to brace yourself for worse, and I am so bloody sorry. He's a gutless fucker, because if he were just totally honest he would actually do you both and your relationship so many more favours, as someone else so wisely commented.

Xales · 27/07/2013 21:36

How can you trust him not to sleep in the same bed on his work away Sad does he have to go?

There is still a risk of certain STIs with everything but the actual deed please do consider tests.

clam · 27/07/2013 21:49

It just doesn't make sense for them not to have done it. And the casual intimacy of glass-sharing and the thigh squeeze indicates a relationship, not just a one-night thing. And he's testing your reaction by drip-feeding information. There's more to come I'm afraid.

I'm so sorry.

Notafixer · 27/07/2013 22:07

I do get the "everything but". I've only cheated on a partner twice but the last time was purposefully kept at everything but.

That said I agree with what everyone else has said about the intimacy, everything else about the way they interact speaks of physical familiarity.

It's possible as well that leaving to be with her isn't an option. She might want to make it work with her boyfriend. She might have gone off your husband. She might be very aware that marrying a mistress creates a vacancy. I think there's a tendency on here to think that the OW is always waiting around waiting to set up house, and that's not the case. I'm not sure why I'm saying this, apart from to be sure he's not just staying with you because she doesn't want to take him on.

Namechangingnorma · 27/07/2013 22:16

op so sorry it's turned out this way, you have fantastically honed instincts which will serve you well. if you can take anything from this make sure you keep listening to them

ProphetOfDoom · 27/07/2013 22:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thismousebites · 27/07/2013 22:25

So your DH says he tried it on, but she stopped it before it got to full sex.
In that case, why did she not move away from him when he squeezed her thigh? surely if she did not want things to go any further she would have rebuked his advances that evening.
He;s feeding you bits in the hope that you won't find out the truth. The less he can get away with admitting, the better it looks for him.

NanaNina · 28/07/2013 00:15

So sorry OP - I think the big problem for you now is one of trust - it's practically impossible in my experience to trust someone after something like this, and I do agree with others, that he is drip-feeding you details. It's all very well him saying he will only see her at work, but you are going to be worrying the whole time if they are "popping" out to lunch etc.

You sound very calm and rational when you post, but I wonder what you are feeling underneath.....your must be having all sorts of emotions buzzing around your head. Incidentally does your (D)H have a drink problem as you have mentioned him being drunk on 2 occasions. As for you making his week hell, I wonder if you were able to tell him how you have felt.....are you an assertive type or not. Just wondered.

The trip next week is a work trip isn't it, so he will have to go.

Only thing I can suggest now is that if you want your marriage to continue then your best bet would be to get counselling together, to look at the whole issue of infidelity and the emotions that arises in both of you and looking to the future and the trust issues etc.

MadAboutHotChoc · 28/07/2013 07:20

This drip feeding is typical - first nothing happened, then it was a drunken fumble and now its bed sharing and everything but....

Even if it was just oral sex (which I doubt), its still sex and carries the risk of STDs.

Its horrible as you don't know what you are going to be hit with next Sad

MadAboutHotChoc · 28/07/2013 07:21

This drip feeding is typical - first nothing happened, then it was a drunken fumble and now its bed sharing and everything but....

Even if it was just oral sex (which I doubt), its still sex and carries the risk of STDs.

Its horrible as you don't know what you are going to be hit with next Sad

mrscraig · 28/07/2013 08:41

I have been thinking about you and your situation a lot over the last few days. I was really sorry to read that your instincts proved right. Always always always trust yourself.
Take every minute, hour, day at a time and be kind to yourself.
Have you got someone in rl to talk to?

onefewernow · 28/07/2013 09:03

I think he is still lying too. But the worse thing is that having done it at all, he has spent at least a fortnight making you feel so much worse about yourself you to protect his own sorry arse.

That is the horror of affairs- the lying afterwards, the making you doubt yourself and the gas lighting.So disrespectful.