Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 24

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Well done rose he is trying every which way to get a rise out you and it isn't working. He is now making out in his own mind too that all the descions are his. If it keeps him from getting angry that is good. I am glad you have told you mum too - as in instances of less clarity she will remind you of it. You are doing really well.

No, better, you do not sound crazy at all. I get what you are saying about silence not being a good thing, just a pause between onslaughts, and everything being perfectly justifiable to them. I was thinking about you this morning. Do you know what triggered his return after 8 years? Not that it matters.
I think I have FW lite compared to you but am realising this is it, it won't go away.

Rose, happy to count down with you. It is great having the clarity to see him for what he is. He does not get it, and he won't. Stay strong.

rose yay counting down to your new life with you.
Do make sure that everyone knows, friends, family university that they are not to give him your address.

It's a valid question fox I know exactly and at the last court hearing the judge who has thankfully seen all this before said what they thought his motivation was in the order - the CSA - he originally thought his manipulation skills and superiority would get him out of that - they eventually after years, took him to court - he went and I quote them `mad' - after having a go at them his anger turned to me and DS (I was unaware of what had just happened with the CSA when it first started with me as I hadn't spoken to them in a long time)- but as it was all in anger he made some big mistakes, it scared DS, DS will never forget and he is the kind of child who if you get off with on the wrong foot is hard to sway round, as my great aunt found out a few years ago DS judged her well too - that and his fresh, untainted, own, natural instincts - my DS is not wrong, I love him for it and his not for moving stance, his strength drives me on - I can't let him down.
No matter what the weight it is the relentlessness that wears you down and they know it but because of the relentlessness others do then start to see it which is what eventually blows their cover.
In an attempt to cover his sculldugery one of my exp's latest techniques is to be super on the ball and to try and appear a very considerate person .. or so he thinks - these actions are also not those of a normal person - he just doesn't act normally. The acts are sometimes about seemily little things so I can see now how I missed them in the beginning, they stare me straight in the face now. There are still some common themes - nothing is ever simple and straighforward and it is always someone else's fault. That was the case today and he did what almost every other person I know would not have done.
rose your DP may do the same, they sort of have to or they have to admit who they really are and they don't want to, they are too afraid to, they think they will lose everything - they would of course not, they would gain but we can't stick around to find out if they will because it is really rare that they see this and in the meantime we suffer - in my case my DS would suffer the most.

mink it is really good advice about letting everyone know - in the beginning I was terrified to let everyone know, I made a big mistake there. He banked on me not telling. He had me at one point because I was in the early stages of pregnancy and didn't want to tell people about that so I just kept it all in. I think that is why he is trying the new `super compliant' act - he is saying - look at me, I am sooo considerate... but because he isn't used to be nice at all it comes across as forced and not how nice people act either IYGWIM .

better, thank you. So, it was money, and having to take financial responsibility for the son, whose life he is now turning upside down? Therein lies the fallacy of everything he is trying to argue, because decent, responsible fathers do not need to be chased for maintenance, quite apart from anything else.

I am a bit about a conversation I just had, with a long term male friend, who til now has been fairly supportive, in a balanced way. I have valued that, as we have a long and complicated history, which means in a major way, I have been uncertain about the relationship. (It is the ex I have mentioned in other contexts). He was telling me about a custody situation a male friend of his involved in, which ended with the mother calling the police when the father had removed the son from nursery on his birthday for a party. The details are immaterial, apparently dad was in his rights to do so, but it was more comments from my friend about how women can be controlling too, how he realises I am not objective etc. I actually found myself a bit lost because I did not understand why he was saying this to me, so I cut short the call and said I needed to go to bed.

Yes, so, now he has texted me saying he did not want to burden me, he is sorry, but he is irritated and hurt.

Miscommunication? I am exhausted, so I guess it was the wrong time to have the conversation. I just feel crap now. I guess he was angry on his friend's behalf, but I am not getting this.

hard to read between those lines fox. maybe he is embarrassed/ashamed/defensive about being a man because he thinks your FW has given you a bad opinion of men and by extension of him.

so he assumed you would take the woman's side in that situation and he felt obliged to take his friend's side.

you could ask him why he is hurt?
or you could just leave it and see how you feel about it next time.

I said I was sorry I had upset him, but I did not really understand his point, and I was still not understanding.
He replied probably just a misunderstanding. So, no further forward.

Thank you for replying. The relationship is bloody opaque anyway, but it did seem like a men vs women conversation, rather than these are just people in crap situations, and I guess I did not want that conversation. I would not say I took the women's side, but I was mentally thinking what I would do in her situation, even though I don't know if they were comparable.

Will sleep on it.

Sorry, reading your first line again, I know he would joke that he managed to give me a bad opinion of men all by himself!

he sounds like he tries to be loyal to his friends. you and his male friend.
hope it is just misunderstanding. i would let it lie if it is an isolated incident in an otherwise helpful friendship.
good friends are worth their weight.

went for assessment.. got lost in flashback.. probably cptsd [gloom]

oh fi
maybe knowing and getting help is a positive thing. flashbacks must be very hard to deal with
dam FW. why are they never the ones who have to live with it?

Hey fox - I just wrote a whole post that was probably a bit too ranty! I just don't like to think of you being put in that position - he maybe doesn't understand as much as he says he does. I agree, sleep on it and see how things are tomorrow. (Today! Yawn.)

Fi - but better to be diagnosed and get help than struggle on with it. Have they said what they can do?

Fi, completey agree that diagnosis is better but still not a good position. Are they able to help? Totally agree re FWs not being the one to deal with it

pony, thanks for your reply. I always appreciate your thoughts, ranty or not.

mink, thank you also.

I am still feeling . Reflecting on it, I think you are right mink, he was troubled by his friend's situation. The thing for me was that the mother had made an allegation of violence which he said his friend would not have done, how much his friend was paying in maintenance etc, so it all started to get a bit difficult for me to respond to, because of course, it is just one side of the story, and FWs story would be different to mine etc. Then he said he was glad he did not have kids because he would not want to be in his friend's position, or my position, and at that point, I did just think, what? And the only response I could think of was, yes, but look at your life, which I could not say and I would always rather have my kids, neither of which I said. Then hestarted about how the courts look at both parents, and how they care for the children, and I was thinking why are you saying this to me?

I don't know. I am tired, so the conversation probably was a series of misunderstandings, but I am not sure how I was supposed to respond. Sorry, I realise this is trivial compared to other things, am just venting as am . Will step away for a couple of days, but that may increase his hurt feelings? He is supposed to be coming here in a couple of weeks, and had invited me away to an event. I cannot go as it is a contact weekend, so there may be that too. I do not even know if he will be coming now, he said he was not sure (before this conversation, that is why I phoned him, to find out what he wanted to do). .

Still, it is sunny, so fresh air will clear my head.

To clarify, pony, I don't actually think your thoughts are ranty, though. Usually pertinent and astute. Ditto everyone else on here, which is why it is good to have this board.

thank you lovelies.

hmm.. yes I did know, but at the same time I didn't as although that was how I scored before, I was in front of a CBT/EMDR therapist who told me how extreme it was and consequently mightn't be able to help! I don't think there's a service here that can't deal with it, and I think it the same across the country. I know its worse when there are events going on, definitely. I can calm, and the main stay is safety. Once thats achieved it can calm I'm sure.

Finding it hard to keep up with everyone's struggles right now, but I'm still trying to follow and so hoping for you all to keep safe, and knowing that you are all such great support for each other.

One thing I've learnt is noticing the voice in my head that he instilled... his voice, causing the doubts and undermining. Each and every time of making a decision around this, then spiralling into the fear of what 'he' will think. This driving me to the bottom, will also drive me to the top... It has to. His voice is going to stop having any effect on me.

btw... its allowed to have a good ol rant, surely necessary? (((hugs))) all xxxx

fox at my ranty thoughts! I was tired and I find it easier getting irate on friends' behalfs than my own!

Fresh air for head clearing is good. I don't think this is trivial at all - it's a burden that someone who you want to be supportive, who you want to understand your position, has put on you. But you don't have to take it on. You could say to him - I understand that you are concerned about your friend, but the things you were saying, the situation he's in, they are not something I can process and support you with right now. I hope you can understand why it's difficult for me. I wish I could support you and listen, but I can't in this situation. Please respect that. Or slightly less stuffy words to that effect.
It's maybe part of setting out boundaries, to say - I don't want to talk about this, and it's ok for me to not want to and a little unfair of him to ask you to.

Fi there's no requirement to keep up. You have enough on your plate right now. You have given so much support over the threads, it's give and take. Now you need to focus on yourself.

Is the therapist saying they are not sure they can help? So what's the alternative, they just leave you to stew in PTSD? Had a thought, when you mentioned his voice - what about hypnosis? Thinking of you, lovely.

Fi, have you read anything about introjection? It is the opposite of projection, ie, you internalise someone else's views which are negative of you, what I have thought of as the internal critic but not realised why.
Recognising his voice, rather than yours is key, because you can mentally start to say shut up to 'him'. When the spiral starts, I think 'shut up'. It helps to recognise what is not you, because you mentally shut off the introjection, and it makes me feel a bit calmer and easier to focus.

pony, thanks. That is helpful . Am feeling slightly that this has created a situation where I am now a bad friend, so a way out would be useful.

Fab I wasn't go to be so polite 'shut the .... up' was more the line I had planned . Hadn't heard of introjection! but that makes such sense of course. thanks.

yes, I think so Pony but I won't [stew in PTSD], I can't make it stop right away, but I am prepared that they won't be able to help; the 'team' have to discuss it. Not sure who they do help, I think probably the more straightforward ptsd?!?! who knows. I did ask. Some odd stuff about DV, and smattering of normalising, asked if she could understand the difference between non-abusive people being abusive, and abusive people being abusive, she asked me what I think the difference is? I think I know? but I don't think she does I do wonder. .. but it isn't going to get the better of me.

that convo [with your friend] Fab was very triggering! I don't know what else you could have done at that point. You needed to go away and process it. I can't at the moment! ?!!? but, I think its incredibly difficult to get embroiled in the 2 sides when enough going on for self. ((hugs)) and thanks xxx

fab given the violence allegation...i think the issue may be your friend actually suspects partly because of knowing your situation that his friend may well be a FW...but he does not want to believe it. look at our situation we did not want to believe it of our FWs and we knew he may just suspect and is probably uncomfortable.
also if we do take it as she made an allegation, she is a woman he is a man so chances are it is true then that bias/assumption although probably correct makes me a bit uncomfortable. imaging how you would feel if you were a man. he might be thinking, i don't want to think the worst of my friend but i don't want to stand by a FW but i also do not want to be in a position where if some one said that about me i would automatically be assumed to be guilty because of my gender. hence why he may be glad not to have kids.

it is like male friends of mine who are appalled when they have to cross the road at night to avoid any women in front of them thinking they are following them. appalled because women have to think like that. appalled to be part of a gender that is feared. whilst knowing that they themselves have done nothing.

in short. it is a minefield. probably one best kept out of.

so...i may be reading too much.into it...but i would give him a bit of slack. the process of realising one of your friends may be a FW is probably not great for him.
but don't get dragged into discussing it again. you can only comment on your own situation and not on his friends.

and hopefully your friendship can carry on.

charlotte how are things goin gwith practising 'no'. are you on lesson two 'piss off' yet? just saw early post from the the thread.

I made it out for the once a month trip to the bingo last night. not much happening just thought I would take the chance seeing as it was a good night out last time.