Moving from being the OW to being his girlfriend...

[beingmyself]

I've got my flameproof suit on and will start by saying I know being in an affair is a selfish and cruel thing to do. I did it. He did it. We decided we wanted to be together so after having an affair for several months we both left our spouses. He has moved out and so has my h.
We are not living together though and are not intending to for a while. We are also still secret and will remain so for some time.

Is anyone who has been there brave enough to come and talk to me about the highs and lows of finally getting to be together? I knew it would continue to be a rollercoaster and would really appreciate anyone who's willing to talk about it with me to do so here or to PM me!

Thanks

• bloody phone.

Anyway op I know the advice is wasted but do try to not be so cold to your fellow humans.

Live long and prosper.

Not great but one thing in a persons life doesn't define their whole future....

If only it was the 'one thing'.
Keeping the knowledge of the affair and the ongoing relationship and the intention to stay in the new relationship and involve the children in it from people to whom you owe this disclosure is part of the whole future. Here and now is always 'the future'.

Things are not going to magically change at some point unless you and he choose to do things differently. So far neither of you has chosen that. Each of you has done what gives immediate advantage to you as individuals and as a couple and as parents. Keeping on doing deceitful things and hoping that this isn't really you or your man and you will both end up with a partner who has integrity is self-delusion.

Yeh - any advice is completely wasted on the OP.

What I find odd about some of her most strident supporters on here, is their lack of judgement.

It's as though anyone, no matter what rubbish she writes, gets support from some people because she too has had an affair and/or been an OW.

I get that it must be difficult to be objective if you've been on the receiving end of this sort of thing, although a few seemed to made a good stab at it. There has also been some good advice as far as I can see from a few posters who left marriages for other people/married a bloke after an affair and interestingly, those women haven't supported the OP at all in her decision to keep on lying to everyone, or in her continued and unabating character assassination of her beau's wife (which indicates she's frightened in some way by the wife, obviously).

I'm guessing there are as many women on this thread who've had affairs that didn't turn out how they wanted them to, as there are women who've been left or women whose blokes have had an affair. Which means they've lost any objectivity at all about the merits of this particular poster and her specific actions.

These threads obviously get posts from people who are a lot more objective because they've neither had an affair nor experienced their partner having one. So on another thread, you'll see us giving loads of support to an OW or a woman having an affair (and touchingly you'll even see really kind posts on there from women who've been hurt). Then you'll see us on another thread where a woman whose husband has had an affair, challenging some of the misogyny and the sexist insults being hurled at the OW. In summary, if a poster as an individual is being a bit of an arse, is being disingenuous or is being cruel, there are posters who'll challenge that whether she's an OW, an OM, a man or woman having an affair or alternatively dealing with the fall-out from a partner's infidelity.

But there are some posters who regardless of whether an OW OP's behaviour has been indefensible, or is making a complete tit of herself on the thread, rush in to support her and start turning on other posters. They do it time and time again and the gist of what they say never changes. To the extent that if you see their names as the last poster on an active thread, you can more or less predict what that post is going to say. It used to really confuse me and I still find it odd, but I reckon that there are a lot of unhappy women out there who've resigned to stay in marriages after their affairs didn't work out and they act out some of those frustrations on these threads, starting arguments with posters who criticise dishonesty and maybe living their lives vicariously through these OPs who they hope will achieve a better ending than they had.

Mumsnet's a strange old world, that's for sure.

Bogeyface that particular post amused me as I have heard something similar said once before. Not relevant to this. However in that particular case the therapist was in our local paper a few months later. He was arrested for practicing without qualifications. Fraud was the charge...

badinage - we don't have to be an OW, in an unhappy marriage or agree with you.

those are not the only 3 choices on this topic.

but you can think that if you like.

LPP It reminded me of Father Ted, the comment about "collect 12 crisp packets and become a priest" :o

Bogeyface I loved / love Father Ted...

Is that correct that qualified counsellors would not agree to see those having affairs? Or have I understood that wrongly?

Don't know where you got that from- my best friend and her DH have recently seen counsellors ( 3- one for her, one for him, and couples counselling) during and after his affair.

I also referred a client of mine (I'm not a counsellor ) to a friend who is a counsellor. He was having an affair.

Counsellors don't judge or comment on behaviour.

Gosh 685 messages. Will another one make a difference?

This time last year my wife and i started a trial separation. From June to Sept we lived apart and looked after kids fifty fifty. In Sept ex told me that she no longer wanted to be with me as she had not missed me and separation became permanent.

Three weeks after that i discover that she had been having an affair from a week before i moved out. (three weeks after we agreed to have trial separation). To this day she insists that the affair / fling did not have an impact on working to bring us back together.

What it is has taught me is that if i cannot trust the person that I was married to for thirteen years to not lie or cheat then i would stay clear of anybody in the future who admitted to having an affair.

Now there may be reasons for some people to have affairs (emotional or physical neglect etc and getting the attention from elsewhere) but I do think it is important for OP to tell her spouse.

It was not nice when i discovered about my ex's affairs and one night stands whilst we were on trial separation but at least I now know my ex "checked out of marriage" before me.

Whatever relationship I am in in the future I would rather address issues with other half first and then walk away if they are not fixable rather than "see what else is out there".

If someone can cheat and lie when they have kids are involved then I cannot see them not lieing if they are with someone they do not have kids with.

I still think me and ex may have had future together if she had not cheated and we discussed stuff. Thats not to say i want her back as the trust was lost a long time ago. if i met the equivalent of my on a dating site and she told the truth about about affair and one night stands i would run a mile. And i would expect most men would if they were looking for a long term relationship.

rambling post and when i read back cannot even see what point I'm trying to make :-)

Professionally qualified therapists (ie ones who have got more than their NVQ equivalent out of a lucky packet) DO NOT see soul mate schmoopie fuckers and fuckees for 'counselling'. They DO NOT give credence to fantasies.

Of course they see COUPLES in which one is having an affair, and can clock an affair pdq. The person choosing to step outside into a fantasy, tends to be told things along the lines of 'you are making a huge mistake/you are committing the worst violation a marriage can endure'.

'Counsellors don't judge or comment on behaviour.' - of course they bloody do, come on. They just don't do it in a way that is directive. But are you CHALLENGED in therapy? You bet you are. What is the POINT of counselling, if not being a 'companion' (therapist, greek for companion) with someone along their journey?

Proper counsellors are NOT NOT NOT enablers. Proper therapy is the hugest boundaries and the hugest (loving) discipline that most people have ever experienced.

Therapy gets to the bottom of denial and delusion and is very painful. Does that mean that people run as soon as it starts getting hard? Does that mean that therapists have to tread a balance of keeping people safe and bringing them round to face their issues? Yes to both.

Proper therapy is NOT for sissies.

I wonder if your comments are based on personal experience Wobbly- or what? Because they are not opinions ( or experiences?) which I recognise at all. I think it's very dangerous of you to quote words which in your opinion ( again, I am assuming) you say a counsellor would use.

Unless you are a counsellor- and speaking for yourself- or you have experienced what you write ( in which case it should be clear that it's your own experience) then I wonder how you know, and why you feel so strongly about it?

I sometimes refer clients on to counsellors and at times we need to discuss - in a professional context- mutual clients. That's why what I have seen and heard from accredited snr counsellors is at complete odds with what you have written here.

I'd hate anyone lurking on the forum to think that by going for counselling they were going to be subjected to the response you suggest is par for the course in your post.

If I may step into the middle of this argument! Therapy and counselling are different things.

Therapy is generally a long term solution to long term issues such as behaviour stemmed in childhood abuse for example. It is a very tough process emotionally and thats why some people do fall by the wayside when they have to expose emotions they may have been surpressing.

Counselling tends to deal with specific issues such as an affair within a marriage and how to get past it. It doesnt (usually) delve further into the psyche of the couple concerned but deals with how to accept the facts as they are and move forward.

Therapists can be counsellors but not the other way around as it takes much more study to become a fully accredited therapist.

Unless you are a counsellor yourself Missbopeep, then I do not think you are in a position to make any comment about what counsellors do or don't do.

How strongly or how wishy washy someone may feel about an issue is neither here nor there really.

I hope you can clarify that no individual clients of your counsellor colleagues were identifiable to you in your conversations with them?

I would like anyone who is thinking about seeing a counsellor- either because they had or are having an affair- or are the other party whose partner is having an affair, that no counsellor who is doing a professional job would tell then 'they are making a big mistake' etc etc.

Math- I am a a professional who has direct contact in my work with counsellors and we refer clients between us at times. With the clients' permission ( and never without) we occasionally need to discuss their cases. On that basis, I'd say my comments above are valid.

But a counsellor would point out what a mistake they are making. They may not use those words, but they would be failing in their remit if they did not point out the consequences of a clients actions. Apart from anything, counselling would not be successful if the client and the counsellor were both in full possession of the facts.

They might not use the precise words but they might ask the client to ponder their motivation in embarking on the relationship, their hopes for the new relationship, to examine and question their assumptions about how others might deal with the situation their actions created. They might also ask a client to root around in their baggage for patterns of thought and behaviour that tended to lead them into blind alleys in relationships, and ask about the emotional map they were using in the new relationship. The aim would be to have the client achieve clarity and make sound decisions, not to direct their actions.

Going to stick my head above the parapet here.

I had an affair.

It started while I was in therapy.

My therapist did not say anything like what has been suggested about me making a mistake.

She helped me examine the issues, both mine and those of the marriage, that had led to this course of action.

She helped me develop the tools to be honest. In the end I mustered the courage to be so. My marriage ended, as did my affair partner's. We are now living together.

It's not something I'm proud of, but it's something I did. I don't think I'm the lowest of the low. I think I behaved badly after years of unhappiness. Sometimes, when you're ground down, making strong, brave choices are beyond you. So you go for the available comfort, all the while knowing deep down that you are making things harder for yourself and others. Daft, but it's what humans sometimes do.

I just wanted to throw this in, because if anyone is in a mess and were thinking of having therapy to help them, I'd hate them to be put off by the above posts. It's nothing like that. Therapists are not there to point out your mistakes. They're there to help you develop the tools to spot them, understand them and sort them out for yourself.

This thread keeps going on and on...

OP you've decided to keep your 'relationship' secret, but from what I can make out from your posts and I may have missed some is that you really aren't in a relationship with this man at all.

You are a recently separated/divorced woman (no idea if you're still getting the divorce or finances sorted on your side), who is dating a man who is going through a messy separation/divorce where children under age of 5 are involved. To the outside world neither of you know each other. If you really needed him to support you through some sudden crisis would he come running to your aid? Both of you are focussing on the ex which seems to me to be a red herring. Much easier for him to blame his ex all the time and focus on the past. I wouldn't want to date a bloke who kept harping on about his ex or who had to hide his relationship because of his ex. You carry on with it because you feel guilty. Forget the affair this is real life now. What do you want out of this relationship? A new husband? Someone to have no strings attached fun with? What does he want?

If it were me and I thought this man were my soulmate and you his I think I would want to move hell and high water to be together. You don't live in the same town and your man likes his single man lifestyle. Do you talk about the future? Is he prepared to be both a father and stepfather? To be with you he's got to show love and dedication to two sets of children. He may end up seeing your children more than his own children and more than your ex does. Have you thought about all of that? Come up with some parenting strategies?

Its hard enough becoming a stepmother, trying to blend families when the father has massive guilt complex of not seeing his kids is even harder.

If it were me I'd tell him to get in touch when he's sorted out his divorce, emotions and come to terms with being a non-resident parent.

FeralStreep will also stick head up from lurking to say your point about the importance of honesty and that therapy helped you achieve that is really useful in this discussion, and certainly highly relevant to the op's situation and the welfare of everyone involved.

'Unless you are a counsellor yourself Missbopeep, then I do not think you are in a position to make any comment about what counsellors do or don't do'. - ha ha ha!

She helped me examine the issues,
She helped me develop the tools to be honest. - there you go, poster.

But a counsellor would point out what a mistake they are making. They may not use those words, but they would be failing in their remit if they did not point out the consequences of a clients actions - quite so, Bogey.

And yes, I do know of therapists who have used that sentence wrt an affair - you are making a big mistake. Not that it penetrates the addiction, but later when they are moaning with the pain of their consequences under the dispassionate gaze of the therapist, ignorance can not be claimed and self-pity indulged. Good therapy, like the world, is inexorable and implacable. Wonderful discipline.

If anyone is still reading, a counsellor who is doing their job properly will not tell anyone, ever, that they are making a mistake about anything they talk to them about.

I am coming back to this because frankly I am horrified that people are still posting this untruth which may put people off being counselled.

If anyone has had counselling where they have been told something is 'mistake' then they have not had a good experience, and if it was a one-off experience they should not post here as if it's par for the course. counsellors don't judge or tell you something is a mistake - they help you understand why you are where you are now.

This is a US site but it's worth looking at point 9 on the list.

www.goodtherapy.org/blog/warning-signs-of-bad-therapy/

Did anyone miss the bit where I said that counsellors and therapists are totally different?

You are arguing about 2 completely different jobs!