Moving from being the OW to being his girlfriend...

[beingmyself]

I've got my flameproof suit on and will start by saying I know being in an affair is a selfish and cruel thing to do. I did it. He did it. We decided we wanted to be together so after having an affair for several months we both left our spouses. He has moved out and so has my h.
We are not living together though and are not intending to for a while. We are also still secret and will remain so for some time.

Is anyone who has been there brave enough to come and talk to me about the highs and lows of finally getting to be together? I knew it would continue to be a rollercoaster and would really appreciate anyone who's willing to talk about it with me to do so here or to PM me!

Thanks

I agree with AnyFucker that it's possible this man is hedging his bets and seeing how this new relationship works out before committing himself to anything which might be irreversible and that this is a plausible reason for him to continue lying to his wife about having no-one else. I'd be interested in whether he's instituted divorce proceedings based on his wife's unreasonable (abusive) behaviour for example.

Probably not.

The trouble is, from the OP's point of view, because she trusts him '100%' any reasons he might give for not serving divorce papers now probably seem plausible too.

If she gets a divorce petition now, she'll go into even more of a meltdown and that will damage the kids. Let the dust settle a bit. After all there's no rush is there?

I suppose from his point of view and if he was being selfish, it makes sense to road test a different life before deciding to throw out the old one permanently.

I do hope he doesn't get given the choice though and that his wife has someone savvy on her side making discreet but fruitful enquiries. It wouldn't be too difficult at all to find out the truth. I hope she's either decided she wouldn't have him back whether she gets that or not, or that the truth will free her if she still has hope.

I do hope this thread has been helpful to people whose partners have upped and left insisting there was no-one else. It's probably been painful for some but objectively, it's been a fascinating peek into the lies that people tell themselves when they are in the grip of an obsession.

The overall delusions are of course very familiar to anyone who's been down this road with friends and colleagues before and there's nothing much new in any of it but for some I suppose it will take their breath away, especially the slating of the man's wife, the persuasion carried out by the OP that she was 'emotionally abusive' and the risible insistence by the OP that the continued secrecy is for other people's benefit and not hers or her partners.

Fascinating but at the same time horribly sad to think of a woman coping with shift work, caring for two small children and a lying husband who's just walked out on her after deceiving her for months.

I do wish her and all the children well, however this turns out.

Delightful summary thanks fran...

Just to reiterate I did not persuade or even tell him his w was EA. I know this myself from being educated about it on mnet.

And the "coping with shift work" is a rather misleading comment.

Ah well

Any & Franceca. I must say I agree. I think the continued disception is been driven by OM rather than the Op. Excuses such as it will be easier when the dust settles, she may stop me seeing the children etc. etc. will no doubt be his reasoning. But if his truly intent on divorce he would have filed by now and he wouldn't be ashamed to admit he was with someone. This isn't about the good of the partners. This is in OM self interest.. If we are wrong Op then please help us understand your reasoning for not coming out in the open. You say they are a number of reasons, what are these reasons?

Just to reiterate I did not persuade or even tell him his w was EA. I know this myself from being educated about it on mnet.

Again correct me if I am wrong but your following comments seem to indicate you told him that his wife was EA. So did you or not? And if you did, are you now blaming the MN threads you read for you convincing him his wife was EA! So it's not your fault! Sorry I am confused or maybe I misunderstood.

It was me who realised she was EA towards him through reading threads on this board. He thought she was 'normal' and that all women were like that.

I think what I mean is that if I were in her shoes I wouldn't understand why even though things were awful, my husband didn't even want to try counselling or something. However she was EA to him and as MNet always seems to advise, tha is a deal breaker. He did try to talk to her many times about it but was always met with silence or "if you really loved being with me you wouldn't need to see your friends" etc

Re her being EA and the kids... Partner and I are both worried about that but he is concerned that his w will really go off the boil if he tries to get more time with the children than she wants. I keep wavering between thinking she is (a) a mum who is hurting and upset and saying things she shouldn't through lack of thought and (b) a mum who will damage her children's emotional well being long term... But then I realise theyre not my children so shouldn't be my concern, but of course I am massively concerned about them. Everytime he tries to talk to his w about this she just flips and cries and hurls abuse at him for leaving. It's tough, I don't know whether to get involved or not.

The ex's rage suggests to me that she is surprised, hurt and shocked by the end of her marriage. That, in turn, suggests that they were not on the amicable separation page you are with your ex. He us not dealing straight with his ex. That would be my take on it.

being going back to your OP. I think you need to have a plan to normalise the relationship.

so you don't want to update your spouses now, but at some point soon you need to be a normal couple. I also think you need to judge very carefully how your DP responds to you raising this topic.

Some posts here to the OP sound simply spiteful.

On the one hand, it's generally agreed on MN and in RL that it's best to live apart after a split before getting together with another person.

Yet here, this man is accused of using that 'space' to edge his bets. Or other posters play Mystic Meg and know he will go back to his wife.

The assumptions are staggering TBH and are pure conjecture. Maybe the type of people who post these things should ask themselves why they want to do this? Are they trying to help the OP- or just play some kind of sick sport via a web forum?

My opinion FWIW is that this entire thread has grown out of all proportion. In RL I've known every scenario there is in relationships: marriages breaking up without anyone involved, marriages breaking up because one or both parties had met someone else, marriages that are 'open' and where people continue lengthy affairs.

I'm nearer 60 than 50. I come from a generation when 'morals' were very different and much of what is par for the course now was unacceptable.

My parents didn't believe in sex before marriage, were 'ashamed' that I lived with my DH for a few weeks before we married ( it was then called living in 'sin') , have a very dim impression of women who have children outside of marriage which to them shows a lack of commitment, but even they would be more kindly and tolerant towards this OP.

One- and just one- of many examples is that I had a close school friend whose father upped and left her mum for OW when they ( the adults) were in their late 50s/60s. It was sad, but everyone acknowledged that he nor the mum had not been happy for years, so it was for the best and wished them all luck. There was none of the hysteria which is on this thread.

I don't think affairs are good, but for this OP the 'affair' is over- she and the man are now living out of their marital homes. It may work out, it may not. They have their reasons for wanting to keep it low profile for a while. Whether it's more hurtful to be left for someone else than just be 'left' is debatable; everyone is different in that respect.

Going back to the Ops' original post, she asked for support . I think there must be around 10% of these posts giving that. The rest are vitriolic and quite honestly simply reinforces some people's opinions of how MN is full of vipers.

Excellent post MissboPeep. Well said.

pot calling kettle!!

the problem is missbopeep is that you assume that the marriages that the OP and her 'partner' are leaving are unhappy. My ex was unhappy within our marriage - which is why he ended up having an affair - but our marriage itself was not an unhappy one, nor difficult in anyway: we didn't argue, we kissed each other on the way out in the morning and on the way back in every evening, there were plenty of 'I love yous', and we had sex regularly, we had no money problems and were able to go out as a couple on a regular basis.....Of course, at some level, my ex must have had ambiguous feelings towards me and ultimately felt so little for me that sleeping with someone else was an option for him. But I can assure you that no one who knew us 'saw it coming' as a result of the unhappiness they had observed between us. Moreover, for 6 months my ex denied he was having an affair (despite the fact that it became very clear when he left because he moved straight in with her) and played the 'look, I just need some space, I really want our marriage to work' card (which included attending Relate counselling sessions with me) which, presumably, meant that he wasn't being entirely honest with one or both of us. Indeed, some 4 years later, my ex is not beyond sending me personal texts or e-mails with kisses on them or asking me out for a drink or trying incredibly hard to pull me back in.

I have said several times that I have little issue with the affair itself. But the OP here gets little sympathy from me precisely because she fails to face up to both her and her 'partners' responsibilities towards their exs and the children involved. Affairs are about little more than selfishness and rarely acknowledge the terrible, terrible mess that they make. The OP is no different in this respect and I think you will find that most posters, however vitriolic (and it is hard not to be angry and upset, particularly if you have been on the wrong end of an affair), have directed their posts at pointing out the ambiguity of the situation and the need to face up to the reality.

Finally, I think if all those of us here who have had cheating exs put our stories down on paper, there would be striking similarities between them: to the extent that you would think we'd all put our heads together and written the same story. Affairs play themselves out with very, very similar scripts and I think for those of us who have been through this, we just see the same thing here and feel that we know exactly what is going on and how it will all end. More importantly, we can speak with experience about the impact this has on the people 'left behind', particularly the children. If that makes difficult reading or is vitriolic, so be it. I for one won't make apologies for my experiences and how that colours how I see this situation.

mumandboys - no one wants you to apologise for your individual experience but equally you need to understand that life doesn't involve "painting people by numbers"...

Your ex sounds vile and I'm sorry you went through that. You say he was unhappy but your marriage was happy... Maybe it was happy to you but it can't have been to him if he was unhappy in it. That still of course doesn't excuse his behaviour.

My marriage also looked happy to many because I worked hard on maintaining a "front" because I thought that was what was best for DCs and H. Not all marriages which are miserable/lonely/abusive/unhappy look bad from the outside.

I get that it's tough to read this stuff if you've been cheated on, and I do understand why some people will always paint the w as a poor put upon poppet who's been loving and devoted to her family throughout the relationship and suddenly through no fault of her own he has left her... Of course for an OW who is a "floozy" (to use a word someone called me on the thread.)

I have, and will always believe that up until the point he cheated, my partners wife had 50% of the responsibility for her marriage and the state it was in.

This thread (and numerous PMs show that that isn't always the case) and that life is rarely black and white.

I mean it isn't always the case that the w is a saint and the OW a sinner!

I don't assume anything actually- unlike rather a lot of other posters.

Neither do I see any place for outpourings from women who have been left. It's not what the OP posted about and tbh can't see how it's remotely helpful- spiteful and bitter yes, helpful, no.

All relationships are selfish. There is a saying 'If you love someone, you let them go.' If love had died for one partner then it hurts yes- but if you love that person you wish them well, even if that means they move on to another relationship.

There's a a huge amount of bitterness here from women who have been 'left'. I have sympathy for you but can't see how venting your spleens helps the OP.

I do feel sorry for broken families on the whole, but children can suffer in any kind of relationship- parents don't have to live apart to inflict damage.

My final post.

How sad that the OP has continued to lay blame on those left behind. You were not in your current partner's marriage, you don't really have any right to apportion blame on his wife. Take responsibility for your actions and stop trying to justify them because you cannot.

I think the vast majority of posters have shown remarkable restraint.

but what you are failing to recognise is that you only have your partner's word about the 'state of the marriage'. You also fail to recognise that people have affairs whilst in relationships they are perfectly happy within (which is what I was trying to explain but may not have done very well) because that's possible...the suggestion that things must have been unhappy isn't necessarily the case. People have affairs because an opportunity presents itself. Cake and eating it is the phrase usually used! Plenty of people have affairs that fizzle out and are never discovered and continue in their marriages for the next 20 years....it happens. More still use the affair as a platform from which to strengthen their marriage. But just because an affair was had does not make the marriage 'unhappy'.

of course we all have responsibility for our relationships and our own happinness. But suggesting the ex should take responsibility for her husband's affair - which is what you want - is wrong. It comes back to basics: if you're unhappy, you extract yourself from an unhappy situation with a bit of self respect and respect the fact that you made vows with someone which you are no longer willing to abide by. You do not lie to them, play around, make excuses and tell them it's all their fault because they didn't do what they should have done to keep you happy is.....vile.

chamomix - I'm not blaming her. I'm saying that in a relationship between 2 people, each person has 50% responsibility for that relationship.

mum - I can see people have affairs in happy marriages. I also believe he wasn't happy. He's given up an awful lot to get out of the marriage. Nobody would do that if they were in a happy marriage. Of course we cheated but neither of us wanted to "have our cake and eat it" hence leaving our spouses.

And I wouldn't dream of suggesting she take responsibility for the affair - but the state of their marriage prior to me is half her responsibility... IMO....

and I don't see the 'other woman' as a 'sinner'. In my case, the other woman was unpleasant - but I suspect much of that was down to her realisation that her lover had done nothing but lie to her - far more lies than he had ever told me - and that was hard to live with for her. She was, in fact, far more a 'victim' of my ex than I ever was because ultimately, I was married and had a certain amount of legal stuff on my 'side' which meant I have been able to recover and move on. And that's aside from the moral stuff - I retained the friends worth retaining. I retained my dignity and self respect. And I never lied to anyone or told half truths or played games.

that is a ridiculous statement, 50% responsibility, so the wife is 50% responsible for her husband having an affair and breaking that relationship, well of course she is! No each person is responsible for their actions in a relationships, not 50% responsible for their actions and 50% responsible for the actions of the other party. That is incredibly illogical.

but had the marriage been unhappy 'prior to you', your 'partner' should have removed himself from it. He didn't - presumably because it was working for him. You'd be amazed at how many marriages become unhappy for years and years and years yet nothing happens until someone else comes along! If it's unhappy, you leave. You pursue your own happiness and if necessary, you live alone in doing that. Our personal happiness isn't about being with another person - that is just a part of our lives, surely? surely if a marriage makes us unhappy we should be pursuing life on our own? because if we don't do that, we're just lying to ourselves and particularly importantly, lying to the person we say 'I love you' to every day and who we have sex with regularly. The same person who means it when they say 'I love you'. What sort of person does that make us?

You cannot expect a person to take 50% responsibility for the 'state of their marriage' if the person they are married to bumbles along unhappily but doesn't do anything about it. What are you supposed to do?! If my husband hugs me, says he loves me, has sex with me regularly....how do I take responsibility for his unhappiness if he is constantly expressing his love for me?! How do I know he is unhappy?

Does that make sense? I think you will find that for many people, where an affair is involved, their marriage was as it always was...may not have been perfect, ups and downs, stresses of children and money etc. but essentially, rubbing along together quite happily. And bang! the other half says they've not been happy for years. really?!

chamonix - you misunderstand me.

I don't think she's responsible for him having an affair AT ALL.

I do think she is 50% responsible for the state of their marriage.

He chose how he dealt with it. As did she.

I'm not saying they were each responsible for eachothers actions, but they were both responsible for the marriage they'd created. In my opinion.

mum If the other person says theyre happy, has sex, affection etc then fair enough. That wasn't the case in their marriage.

Of course you'll all tell me now that they were having sex all along, he's been lying, he was really happy and affectionate with her, he's probably shagging her right now!

OR the truth could be that they were unhappy but like a lot of men he felt powerless to leave because of money, children, saving face etc etc. yes it's gutless and not good behaviour but it happens.

You have just managed to insult all men and women who have worked hard at their relationships who have partners who may have made little effort at all. They are apparently 50% to blame for the state of their relationships, no matter what effort is is applied by either side. Oh gosh.

Again you are insinuating something about another couple's marriage. You cannot know how their marriage was, only they can. You can only ever know from hearsay. If you really want to know what it is like from hearsay, go and ask the wife and children too.

Ok chamonix I'm going to think about your point as I wouldn't want to insult people who make effort where the other one doesnt... Perhaps I'm being far too black and white now

we're going round in circles...

how can you know?! he's a liar....he's prepared to lie....you know he's prepared to lie 'cos you've been having an affair with him.

I know it's easy for me to say but my situation is hilarious in this context. I feel quite sure my ex told the girlfriend we never had sex. For this reason, my pregnancy, a child conceived the same week he walked out one me, must have come as a dreadful shock!

I'm sorry - it's easy for me to say 'he must be a liar' because I know it happens and have living proof in the form of a nearly 4 year old - but you cannot possibly know what the reality of his homelife is/was. You cannot trust him.

Felt powerless to leave? He needed to do the best for his children, 'save face', plow money into a home he wasn't happy in....but it's OK to leave at the point you've met someone new? that's doing his best by his children? 'saving face'? No...it's opportunity. He's an opportunist and has seen an easy way out, rather than focusing on his responsibilities as a father and husband. If he was so unhappy, saving face wouldn't have mattered to him in the past because he'd have been doing his best by his children, and himself, by leaving an unhappy situation.

were unhappy but like a lot of men he felt powerless to leave because of money, children, saving face etc etc

So why leave the children now then? If he was happy to stay before for the children, why now do this to his own children? It's a shameful thing to do. If he was happy as you claim from hearsay he was, he should have talked to his family and told them he didn't want to live with them any more, not walked out on them for another person. Can you not see how awful that is and if you had any sense of being able to feel for another person, you should have walked away too and let him do it, without you adding to the trauma of those children knowing their dad has left them. That would have left only him responsible, instead you are responsible too now. Why can't you leave this family alone?