Being single

[blackbirdatglanmore]

This is a spin off from another thread on here which made me realise several of us were in the same boat.

When you split up with a partner, or express anxiety about the years ahead, either because you want a baby or just worry about being alone, one of two responses tends to be made.

The first response is that you WILL meet somebody, it is easy, the person you're talking to has and they know an aunts friends neighbour who did. If you've been alone some time the response becomes accusatory and tells you that you haven't made the effort and you need to 'put yourself out there.' For most people this means online dating or 'clubs'.

The second response is that you should be happy for beng single - grateful in fact, because they had an abusive partner some years ago and are happier without him and if you're lonely maybe you should join a club.

This thread is for single women in the real world. To take the first response, you may meet somebody, that is true. However, for some of us we know its unlikely. In my case it is my age. I am mid-thirties, most men my age are settled with a marriage, a mortgage and children. Younger men want younger women. I joined mysinglefriend last year (online dating site) and the numbers of hugely attractive, professional women in their thirties was significant. I got nowhere with that, one date and we had little in common. I have since spoken to many women who have admitted online dating wasn't for them, and nor was it for me. I am a slow burner and can't feign affection for somebody on the basis of one meeting. That leaves meeting someone in 'real life' which is not easy. Certainly all (I'm really not exaggerating) the men I meet are attached.

While you can be happy alone, and I am, it doesn't mean it isn't hard sometimes. My social life is restricted and I spend a lot of time alone because my friends are married with babies/small children. Holidays are difficult. I don't get to enjoy any intimacy (I wouldn't like one night stands) and while I've taken the step of deciding to have a child alone, for other women accepting single hood means accepting being childless which would break my heart.

The advice to 'put yourself out there' and join clubs is well meaning but doesn't account for the lack of 'clubs' - certainly around here the clubs are for young mothers and for retired people! Not quite what I am looking for!

'Get a pet' is also advice that can be very upsetting. I have two cats, they are much loved animals but they are not a people substitute and should not be viewed as such.

Sme people assume you are single because on some subconscious level you are damaged and shy fom intimate relations. There was perhaps some truth in that for me once, but in the last seven years I have worked with men who I found attractive and who I was drawn to. If they'd asked, I'd have said yes - but they didn't - why, because of their girlfriends.

So I am starting this thread in an attempt to:

dispel the myths about why women are single
to give us a safe place to moan without being ordered to join clubs!
discuss matters pertaining to single women.

I hope someone else posts now!

It's all a matter of perspective though.

Take a trawl through relationships this evening. In among the nigella threads and the usual porn/OD threads, you'll see plenty of comments blaming the woman for whatever misfortune has befallen her in her relationship or telling her she's overreacting. On MN they are fortunately in the minority, but IRL it's pretty mainstream.

I like the posts on this thread and its a subject much on my mind at the moment

As said upthread I think there is a difference between being single having not married/had DC (assuming that was what you wanted) and being single post divorce with DC. Each scenario brings its own issues.

I am heading towards 4 years single post divorce with 2 teens and am 47 and havent had any kind of date. I have made zero moves to meet men and havent been approached either. A question asked earlier was had people been happier married or single and I think thats where I have been wondering.

This is my first time ever being single and its surprised me how much I was giving up of myself to be living with someone and from experience and what I see around me women do far more compromising and work in a relationship. For me now, tasting the basic concept of do as you please in all areas of your life, I prefer being single.

I have always invested a lot in friendships and am fortunate to have a wide circle of friends who happily come over or go out with me. I enjoy being around friends and doing things with them far more than doing the same things with a man. I am myself, relaxed and happy or not happy with friends without the drama or agenda of a partner. I think the other thing is I am very happy in my own company and enjoy solitude which helps not feeling lonely.

I miss sex and compliments and the feel good factors of relationships but not enough to give up my freedom. My DC have an OW and her family to deal with so dont need me bringing all that into their lives either. I do wish sometimes I had more single people of my age in my life , those I do have want to meet someone .

I imagine if and when the time comes I want a relationship it will be very difficult and may never happen not least because I am not interested in compromising on anything. The one thing that did pull me up short though was how my long term financial future would be far rosier with another wage earner in the house !!

Blackbird

Great thread.

Im single and I hate it. Absolutely hate it. I do have children, but as much as I love them, they do not take up the space that I would like filled by a partner.

I have been married, I remember being envious of single friends at that time, wishing I could have a big bed to myself or watch what I like on TV.

The reality of being single (for me) is :

The bed is cold and lonely with just me in it
I would like to discuss what im watching on TV with someone and would love to fight over the remote with someone
I wish I could cook a nice adult meal for 2 every now and then, rather than just me
I miss sex so much it almost physically hurts. A vibrator doesnt put his arms around me or tell me I am beautiful
Nobody tells me they 'love' me. Of course the kids do, but they kind of HAVE to love me, they didnt choose me.
When I do something I dont have another adult to support me (I recently found a lump in my breast, all was fine, but oh how I would have loved for a partner to support me through the worry leading up to it)

I am attractive, outgoing, frienddly, I volunteer and I work full time and people say to me all the time 'why are you single?' Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!

I also find it very patronising when people suggest getting a pet! why?!!!! I alway imagine sitting down for a romantic meal with a dog, then seductively taking him to bed afterwards ... (joke before anyone accuses me of beasiality!)

Picking up on what Dahlen said upthread, I've actually seen a disappointingly large number of threads on here blaming single women for being single. That its their fault, that they're doing 'something' wrong. And I'd bet that in 99.99% of cases that isn't true, and its just the crappy pool of men they're fishing from.

The only difference with RL is that there I (and others) get blamed for being single because we're not making enough effort or being fussy.

Either way the general attitude is if you're single it's your fault!

Yes, velvertspoon -- and if you dare to suggest to married friends that it's just good luck they "found" someone, well, it can lead to frostiness, I find.

It's interesting that men are rarely criticised for being single. And yet, we deal with now 2 generations of "Peter Pan" men who prefer not to grow up. I sometimes wonder what they do for affection, love, sex ...

I agree velvetspoon and even if we were 'being fussy' why on earth wouldnt we?

Upthechimney I have a few single male friends, I know exactly what they do for affaction and sex !! generally they seem to go for younger women who are not ready for a relationship, or they are on dating sites and the pick out the women who are obviously up for a good time.

I am also fed up with people suggesting that I hook up with these said male friends!! I wouldnt touch any of them with a barge pole! they are either fucked up emotionally or they shag anything that walks !!

Excellent topic, thanks OP. Something I have been pondering too.

I am single, divorced with 2 teenagers; DS17 and DD15. I have been single for nearly two years...just had an odd THING with a bloke I met online I call the WolfMan. He was odd but sweet and we lasted about 3/4 months but are friends now.

I have done OD and in the last 2 weeks met 9 men for coffee and only one I have bothered to see again. This one I hope to meet again as only man in the 2 years that I actually quite fancy, and seems ok (but who knows, eh?). He is also keen but we are both rather busy so meeting is not as easy. Plus he works shifts in Brisbane and lives on the Sunny Coast and on off days is building a boat . But we keep in touch so quite nice.

BUT I do enjoy being single. I like having my bed to myself although I miss sex but since the thing with the WolfMan (he was odd but awesome in bed and we rooted like rabbits) I don't seem that fussed. This time I would like a relationship. But not keen to just go with any old man...

I do a fair number of things; dance tango, go out, etc etc but rarely meet men in REAL LIFE. My friends are either single or married. Some of the married ones says shite like oh you are so lucky to have bed to yourself etc etc. Let's swap then...

Single ones are also trying to find men too but without any success. We get together and moan .

I think at my age, quite difficult to meet a man I want to date. And well, I do get tired of people saying stuff like, oh he is round the corner....and when you are ready he will be there... Shite like that!

I make sure I have a full life. I have many dear friends and dancing certainly gives me physical contact.

I am trying to live my life as best I can. If I meet this man (round the corner...) well, that would be great. If not, well I am still doing stuff I enjoy.

It's true, two generations of peter pan men.

I think a thread just to chat about this stuff is a great idea. It's so nice that other people get it. The weird things people say to you. The fact that there are just so few decent sane men who would date women my age. That married people should show more kindness to their single friends.

upinapuffofsmoke, that is true, a lot of married people found their partner through sheer luck. I had a friend who got married at 22! and we all thought It was a huge mistake, they spend most of their 20s fighting, well from 23 to 29 (ish) and then suddenly they seemed to accept their differences and work around them and now in their 40s I know they do have a good marriage but that was a BIG mistake which worked out well in the end, it wasn't testimony to their superior characters or devastating good looks or anything else. I wouldn't say anything, but I know the big mistake has been re-written. And I'm hapy for them. But I know what you mean. to remind them that it was sheer good luck ..........

Try being my age! (although I pass for a lot younger than I am, the number 5 has been passed) And a bit of an alpha female ... I get on really well wit male colleagues, and am not above flirting with various blokes as I meet them. Even started to see someone a couple of years ago; I thought there was a spark, but he didn't seem to want to touch me. That's the other thing I've noticed quite the reverse of the post above about shagging anything that walks. A sort of "new abstinence" compared with the early 80s when I was at university at least -- men who don't seem at all interested in sex. Oh dear, maybe it really is me.

I also hate the 'you need to be happy being single, learn to love yourself'

Fuck off. I do bloody love myself! im great! still not happy being single though!!

Yes, it's as if just by being married, people are somehow better people.

I am 51 but look younger but it doesn't matter. A lot of men here look older than their age Australian weather - harsh.

But yeah, some men don't seem to want sex! Wolfman is now celibate (waste) as he cannot handle relationships.

It is luck - pure and simple- meeting a single man who is compatible.

Sometimes I get mad with the Smug Marrieds.

Ah I don't know... Sometimes I am happy to be single... Other times I am lonely for male company.

Yes, it's as if just by being married, people are somehow better people.

I know can you imagine giving a married person the advice that they 'should just be happy with what they have' if they were to say that they were unhappy, or lonely in their marriage!!

Sorry I am ranting now, but I also find they are the ones that suggest you visit LoveHoney if you admit you need some sex!! I didnt like sex when I was married either, doesnt mean that singlies dont need it!

That is hard if you want DC , I suppose people will say things like "It will happen for you" or the classic "It'll happen when you least expect it you will meet someone"

My well meaning step Mum said that the other day and I laughed and said well I havent expected it for all this time and nor has it happened !

at "when you least expect it". Also at "round the corner". Whenever you see a corner, ladies, edge nonchalantly towards it trying not to look as if you're expecting anything.

Lonely thirties - we are the same age and you could have been talking about my life! I also find socialising with younger people also helps, and like you I get sick of the whole platitudes thing

"It won't happen while you're looking"
"Nobody will love you until you love yourself"
"Just when you're really happy with your life, Mr Right will come along"
"He won't come floating into the living room while you're glued to [whatever I happen to be watching] - you need to get yourself out there."

I feel like screaming. I AM out there! I am out there so bloody much it's exhausting and if I did any more social or networking activities I would have to give up my job to find the time!

The only time I feel sad is when I am out with my younger friends and they all get flirted with or chatted up. It never happens to me anymore - I guess I am too old. (It has only ever happened occasionally.) Once a bloke sidled up and for a fleeting second I thought "I hope I remember how to do this" and then he asked for my friend's number I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!

I wish I had known in my 20's that it would get so hard to meet someone as I aged. I think the advice I would give my daughter is to marry young if she wants kids, and the feminist bit of me hates that. The irony is that I will never have a daughter because I (stupidly) thought I could have it all.

Ditto LurkingBeagle....and LOL at edging nonchantly towards that corner MadLady.

It's like when the Daily Fail prints another article on women's declining fertility....I feel ike screaming. No-one told me! No-one told me that I should make a huge effort to get married and have kids before 35 if that is what I wanted. It just seemed to happen so easily for all my friends.

Blackbird you are speaking my mind. Am mid-forties, mother of 1, been single for, oooooh, 6 years and love, love, love it. I can't imagine being with a partner now actually.

I have a great relationship with my son, even a decent one (at last) with his dad, have lots of friends who, like me, have been single for years and, tbh, I wouldn't have it any other way. I am very aware that I am an exception, but I LIKE being able to do what I want without considering anyone but my son. I love coming down in the evening and having that time to myself. I make holiday decisions, I can have whatever I like for tea and I'm just about to move towns..all considered, decided and managed by me.

The main gripe I have is that I can't get out on a regular basis on weekday evenings without a babysitter, but this is fairly minimal in the great scheme of things, as I get every other weekend off to plan adventures :-) (and every other weekend to plan adventures with DS!)

Every so often I do get a twinge of guilt about being horribly selfish - if I ever did happen to meet someone that I fell in love with (BTW My mum did this at 54, so, it can happen!) then I'd be completely rubbish. But in the meantime, it is pretty fab..

I know - the Wail is awful for that.....and the readers' comments are equally disturbing, like "God intended women to have babies in their teens/twenties and anything else is UNNATURAL". Yup, who needs an education when we could be barefoot and pregnant?

I also think it exposes a huge difference between what men and women look for in relationships. My profession is reasonably well-paid, and most of the men my age are settled, many with much younger "trophy" wives. I suspect that few are single because women find financial security and solvency attractive. (I know some couples where the woman only stays for this reason - which is sad imho.)

Men don't seem to be attracted by this - I think they prefer youth and good looks. I don't think they necessarily find career success or highly paid women intimidating (which I know some feminists think) I just think they are not bothered.

:-)

I am fascinated reading this thread. Thank you to posters who have been very articulate explaining things.

I am definitely guilty of the 'being single is wonderful' stance, so if I've ever made anyone feel patronised or inadequate by trotting that out I'm apologising now.

I'll also apologise for a long post. Some of what you say really makes sense and I'm taking it on board. Other parts less so, so I'm hoping someone can explain it to me.

I have spent considerable parts of my life as a single person. As a single, childless person I was in my 20s and so not staring down the barrel of a permanently childless future. I loved this time in my life and had a lot of fun. I had my DC in my early 30s. I recognise that already having children probably has more to do with my happiness at being single as an older woman than I'd realised. I never experienced my ticking clock as a single woman so that's something I will definitely show more sensitivity about in the future.

I still struggle with how people are unable to fill their time though. Even before I had children I struggled with not having enough time. Between work, family, friends, the usual mundane tasks involved in keeping a house, and then hobbies and interests, I often found myself having to cut back on enough sleep. Nights in on the sofa were a form of sanctuary for me, not a lonely experience. I don't mean to sound judgy, but for anyone working full time, I can't see how you can be making an effort to get out there and lead a full life if you have so much time on your hands that every evening is marked by hours and hours stretching endlessly ahead of you unfilled.

I also don't see how loneliness is related to having children. Many single mothers will tell you that they get lonely in the evenings because the DC are in bed and in their case they have an additional practical barrier to meeting people to avoid loneliness in that they need a sitter. Furthermore, time spent with small children is not comparable to adult company, and just as being in a bad relationship can be far lonelier than being single, so can being stuck in with a toddler who has driven you mad for the last week. I appreciate that to someone who wants a child but may never have one, moaning about being stuck at home with your child may appear insensitive, but to a single mother who hasn't had a night out in 2 years, so is a childless person moaning about the fact they get lonely. Neither position is better or worse; they are just different and equally deserving of compassion.

You may never meet a man. It's not guaranteed and I agree that as you get older the pool of suitable men becomes smaller. Many are single for a damn good reason. There's not a lot anyone can do about that though apart from try to tip the scales in your favour by getting out there more, and even that doesn't come with any guarantees as we all know. There is a huge amount of luck and good timing involved. But if you can't have what you want, you have to learn to cope with what you have, and that means filling the loneliness gap with other things.

I agree that as you get older it is harder to make new friends simply because many friendship groups are already well established and it can feel quite daunting to break into them. As someone who has moved lots, the only thing that has worked for me is to take a deep breath and muscle in. If you wait to be asked, you'll stay lonely. You'll soon be able to tell if people are enjoying you being around or if they're just tolerating you, so don't worry about being pushy. If you think that would be a hard thing to do, then yes it will be, but so are many things in life worth having. You get out what you put in. Treat it as you would an unpleasant work requirement - only instead of a cash bonus you get a new circle of friends. There are no easy solutions or magic wands to this I know, but if you don't have enough friends or the right kind of friends, you need to make more, and, unlike meeting a suitable man, that is possible even though it may not be easy and for some people downright terrifying. I sympathise with those who are in that situation, but the fact remains that if you remain scared of trying and do nothing, nothing will change.

I'm one of the single and childless (oh dear what am I doing on mumsnet?! will I be hounded off?)

I'm very successful in my job, and its an absorbing one. I suspect I'm border line workoholic -- my job certainly brings satisfaction and a vocation. I'm in my 40s so i will probably remain single and childless now. I did think of doing it on my own but I have no family support nearer than several thusand miles away and as the daughter of an emotionally needy mother I have ethical worries about bringing a child into the world for my own emotional satisfaction.

Let me try to explain about the loneliness, Dahlen . I live a life & face a future of no-one loving me. Yes, friends and family love me, but there is no-one in this world who has said publicly that they will put me first. And no-one for whom I have permission/agreement to say that about. And no child who, for a short few years (I'm a doting aunt, I know how quickly they grow independent!) will be all in all.

Of course when people are in their 20s they generally don't feel this, because it's not inevitable then. Single childlessness can be potentially only temporary (except for those who are infertile) -- but 20 years on it is more or less one's state.

And this is in a society where the pair bond and the 'normality' of reproduction are central in all sorts of ways you don't notice if you are married, have been married, or have children. No matter that a third of marriages end in divorce, the idea of the exclusive pair bond is what our society is organised around. Even if I just totted it up economically, that is clear. I thought it was telling that when Gordon Brown got rid of the 10% tax rate, the only group he did NOT compensate were adult single low earners. They lost a cxgunk of income they could ill afford & no compensation in terms of in-work benefits. Everyone else got an increase in for example, child tax credits, housing benefit etc. Being single & low-earning is seen very much as temporary, or unimportant.

And at every election, I have to listen to the rubbish about "hard working families" -- I could go on. If I think about it, I get angry & bitter, but that is such an attractive state of mind, so it's obvious why I'm single & childless ....