Strip club

[Roundtheruggedrocks]

I've lurked on the relationship section for a while, am aware of the wide variety of opinions and find it really insightful. I wondered if MN could cast their eye over this and tell me what to do about it?

DH (we're newly married, no DCs) two months ago lied to me about going to a strip club with friends and having a lap dance. I found out through our mutual bank account records (DH is stupid and disorganised over that stuff) and got very upset. I spent a week not talking to him, heard all his explanations (he maintains it wasn't a lie, that he was drunk and would have told me the truth when he sobered up,) but I checked the online account so soon the next day that he didn't have a chance to tell me the truth. i threatened to leave and DH said no way - started crying, said he'd do anything, that he doesn't even enjoy lap dances and remembers nothing from that evening.

In the past (before he met me) DH went to strip clubs with friends maybe twice a year - on stag dos, so I know that he knows the ropes and it wasn't a one-off in his life. He told me when we first met that he had been to these places too. i admittedly hadn't been clear to DH that getting a lap dance was a deal breaker for me, which is his main argument. He says if he had known he wouldn't have done it and he thought because we had talked about his past experiences there that I would be fine with it.

But why lie? This is what bugs me. He doesn't get it - he maintains he didn't lie - that he was just drunk and tired and didn't want me to go ballistic. I need to get over this and get on with our marriage, me continually bringing it up poisons every good time we have together.

Aside from the lap dance thing, DH and I have a great relationship - he treats me like a queen, hence why this insecurity has suddenly come out of the blue. I've started to think that maybe DH likes the stripper thing - the platinum blonde, big tits, body make-up thing (I am a pale, flat chested brunette) and I have become insecure about my looks and weight too. What do you think I should do?

So leering over young women and paying for them to take off their clothes makes the evening "stand out" does it? Nice.
I know of 3 young men

Men who go to strip clubs are sad. How degrading to them that the only way they can get female attention is to pay them. Makes me cringe. Not very sexy in a man and desperate.

Tombli - "AgathaF, have you never heard the phrase "rite of passage"?". What the hell has that got to do with anything? Personally, a man who can't turn round to his drunken 'friends' and say that he doesn't want to go to a trip club is a weak kinda guy. There is no way I would be bullied into going to see male strippers, no matter how large or determined the group I was with. Likewise, I have left clubs when with friends who were acting in a way I don't like, because I have no wish or need to be around people acting up in a way I don't wish to do myself.

Roundtheruggedrocks - how are you feeling about it today?

strip club, not trip club, obviously

Men who frequent sex clubs are at best a big turn off to women and worst sleezy men. Soooo not sexy to think off and very disrespectful if in a committed loving relationship.

Wonder how my dh would feel if I provocatively danced around his friends at the next party. He would be so embarrassed for himself and me and would certainly turn him right off!

My DH has never ever been to a strip club for a stag do. There are far more exciting alternatives e,g paintballing.

And even when entertaining clients (or is being entertained) - he stays away from these places. His boss respects and agrees with his views.

Saying it is about blokes being blokes is quite insulting tom as your are implying that a man who refuses to go is somehow not being a bloke.

My DH has left stag dos and gone to the pub instead because he doesn't want to spend an evening feeling surrounded by drooling Neanderthals (his words, not mine) and has drifted away from mates who do, because he finds himself less able to respect them and their views. He is no less of a man. My brother, at only 21, will defriend anyone who posts sexist crap on Facebook. He is no less of a bloke. In fact, I hardly know anyone who has been to a stripjoint, tellingly the guy I know who has is a complete dick.

does it make them an emotional abuser of their partner if they do it once in a blue moon?

If they know how their partner feels about it, and do it regardless, with no respect for him/her, then yes, it does. If your partner felt the way the OP does, would you do it anyway?

Er, yes I do think that a lot of men determine the activities on their own stag nights, because that's precisely what my husband and all our male friends and relatives have done. If your group of menfriends do not have any say in their own occasions, then simply speak for yourselves instead of claiming this behaviour is universal.

Equally, I'm afraid this is just you and your group of mates being you and your group of mates. You no more speak for all men than I speak for all women. So give up trying to make out that this is blokes being blokes because lots of men are not like that, thank goodness.

So paying for sexual performance from an actual person can be equated with crazy shot drinking? Yes, because women are objects in this case aren't they? Can't imagine why that should be objectionable(!)

Simply going to a strip club does not necessarily make you and emotional abuser no, it does make you either a. Pathetic and weak willed, b. a disgusting sexist pig of an abuser of women or c. Both. IMHO anyway...

he used to say he'd "caught" me, that I was "always going to belong" to him.

Oh dear. OP, please believe me when I say I am not saying this lightly: do not have children with him. If you do he will feel even more like he has you pinned down, and will begin to treat you badly. He really isn't treating you like a queen even now if he is minimising your feelings about this and having you "rule the roost". All that means is that you are running around organising his life for him, which suits him just fine.

The only reason he is being nice to you now is because he is not yet showing that he really believes that all women are objects. He believes that some women are meat to be bought and that some women are for being wives and mummies, and he has placed you in the latter camp. Once you have children he will have you "trapped" and then he will be free to treat you as an object. He has already revealed part of this belief system by saying that he could never be in a relationship with a stripper.

Going to strip clubs is not "normal" even for stag dos - all the men I know having stag dos have gone paint balling or camping in the bush or have had somewhat drunken dinners out.

Offred, I shall argue below why I believe it is closer to shot drinking than Faster's suggestion that it is like joining the EDL. However, I am astonished by the tone of this debate.

All I have done is offer an honest explanation from my own perspective as to why men end up going to strip clubs. Yes clearly some man find it erotic but many, myself included, don't. When it comes to a vote, I wouldn't advocate going but I wouldn't leave in a huff either. If the group splits I am much happier in the non-strip bar group The OP's partner sounds like he might fall into this category, although he hasn't explained himself well. At the end of the day all the people involved are consenting adults. My partners past and present have never objected about me going, and if OP had never told him that she did object it is not an unreasonable mistake to make.

None of the people on here are trained therapists yet the consensus of opinion is that OP's husband is truly awful. An attempt to balance the opinion leads to ridiculous ranting. I have not made any personal accusations about anyone's character on here. I suggest that other posters share the same consideration. This may be seen as harmless baiting but a woman's future well being could end up be being overly influenced by rants from people who do not appear to have any psychological training.

Membership of the EDL is about 0.2% of the population. In the US surveys estimates suggest that 20% of men have visited a strip club in the last 12 months (I am not one of them), the proportion who have gone once in their lives is clearly higher (probably over half). Is it likely half the male adult population have indulged in an activity which is as repulsive as the extreme violence against minorities advocated by the EDL?

So are all men who go to strip clubs pathetic neanderthals who deserve to be dumped immediately?

In US studies, even after controlling for income, men who have visited strip clubs within the last 12 months, tend to have a higher level of education (tertiary education is associated with a 17.8% greater likelihood of having gone to a strip club in the last 12 months, post-graduate degrees raise the probability by 23%, this are similar of participation increases associated with more cultured activities like the theatre or the ballet). I make no inferences about causality, and the statistical correlations seem bizarre to me but is is does suggest that normal educated men do go to these places. I know "right-on" men who object and say how degrading to women it is, but albeit from a small sample size, these same men proportionately have been the least faithful to their partners out of my acquaintances, although they have been skilled at hiding it.

In the unlikely event that OP is still reading, your DP made a mistake, communication was poor, but if you want examples of abusive men, there are far worse examples in this forum. I do hope you take professional help and good luck.

Why are you so bothered about how many men do it, that's such an irrelevance tomblidad isn't it? Or is the argument "all my mates do it so it must be ok"?

In answer yes, I think men who have anything ranging from casual to active engagement with the abuse and oppression of women (or any group) are a waste of time and should be dumped. I would give you and your shrugging about strip clubs whilst sitting in them a wiiiiiiiiide berth.

The sex industry undermines consent. I understand that part of visiting these clubs involves this crap about mutual consent but here consent is not being freely given. These women are performing a service which men use in return for money, you cannot freely consent in those circumstances and I doubt very many, if any, would do those jobs if they got nothing in return.

In addition it isn't unprecedented for consent to be considered irrelevant where the sexual conduct is considered damaging or risky to society. I would put the sex industry into that category. Generally it is dubious to think abuse is alright because the victim said it was ok.

It is nothing to do with cheating for me, however it does not surprise me that in your experience men who are comfortable using women in one way would also be comfortable using them in another.

What is the argument for these things? "Boys will be boys"? What does that actually mean? I hear "I feel entitled to be a bastard to you because I have a willy".

And I've not said anything at all about the op's dh.

I have simply said visiting strip clubs demonstrates either a casual or an active objectification of women and at least a level of comfort with abusive sexual gratification.

he used to say he'd "caught" me, that I was "always going to belong" to him.

Like many others here I found that an alarming thing to say. Please listen to those women, they're speaking from experience. And I'm speaking from experience when I say that a man who is into strip clubs, but looks down on strippers, and has the madonna/whore thinking is bad news. His thinking about women will affect you because you're a woman. If a man thinks in black and white like that he could very easily move you from the "good" category in his mind to the "bad" one, if you for example were arguing or similar.

tomb - EDL & visitors to strip clubs are in my opinion dicks.

I don't like the contents of either of their minds.

is that clear enough for you?

Yogii that is one of the meanest posts I have ever seen on MN. Shame on you.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, OP, so apologies if this is a bit "behind the groove" so to speak.

But if I were you, I'd tell your DH that you're off to see a male stripper with the girls from work one night, and if he objects, I would say: "Oh it's nothing - just a laugh, and I thought you were so cool with this stuff..."

I would then go to the strip act and have pics taken of me with a drink in one hand and my other arm round the stripper (who, no offence to your DH, is buff and good looking).

In fact I would make a point of going REGULARLY. And then tell him you enjoy it so much you're thinking of getting a job there as a drinks waitress.

Two can play at his game

OP I have read this thread with interest and trepidation. A similar thing happened to me. DH and I been together for 10 years. He has been I stags before but mostly they were activity weekends etc and maybe a stripper for the stag. Anyway off he went last year on a stag do where e was an usher. The groom (who is a twat) and the best man (another twat) all wanted a traditional stag do with booze and strip club. I was fine with all this and wises DH a jolly good time when he went. However when I picked him up he was merrily telling me about his weekend and mentioned the strip club. He then went on to tell me all the things everyone got up too and mentioned he had a private dance. It was this sort of context 'ooh I can't believe so and so spent £150 on all that private stuff. I begrudged the £20 I spent on one dance)!!!' Well I was GUTTED I just couldn't believe he would do that. I mean it is one thing going along because that's what the stag wants etc, but fore the heading money over and selecting a specific girl was heartbreaking. I very nearly ended our relationship over it. DH was compete baffled and sobbed and sobbed and tried to explain, it isn't how I think. Oddly enough tomblidad post made me feel a teeny bit better as he explains it just how DH did. I don't really have any advice, only to say try and get some help moving on. My issue was over a year ago and it has caused sooo much hurt and destruction. I only cling to the fact that DH didn't hide it from me....

Sorry for typos, late and I am tired (excuses, excuses ). Also before I am accused of being a doormat, DH is exemplary is other way (other than dirty toenails and not changing loo roll holder), and promised me he would never go again and said he didn't want to in first place. So should I really throw away a good 10year marriage based on this???? Also learnt a bit about strip clubs. I imagined men at table drinking beer, girl on table on front of them dancing about a foot away, makes but maybe a thing. But no, apparently the minute you walk in door all girls approach men, single them out and work their magic. I mean of course they do, they are on commission. Bit I was honestly so stupid I was imaging a scene like in friends when Rachel and Monica take chandler....

DoTheBestThingsInLifeHaveFleas I feel exactly the same way as you did. Unfortunately the fallout of it has been complicated by our parents' involvement and wanting to brush it under the carpet, and DH's inability to explain/communicate clearly and consistently about it (DH has never been good at this when it comes to many things, not just strip clubs or lapdances.) The insecurities I've had about it have stemmed from my personal insecurities and the lapdance incident exacerbated the problem. Some things I have to sort out alone, some things I have to sort out with DH.

Yogii I thought it was okay to be vulnerable on this board and to state the personal and occasionally private details and effects something is causing? Being called "somebody who paints nails and loses 7kg" is potentially the most objectifying thing said about anyone in this whole discussion.

So should I really throw away a good 10year marriage based on this???
No, why should you, if you think things are fine? Or is there something about your relationship that you are unhappy about?

OP was upset over the lapdance and how her partner handled it and her partner had also said some other alarming things. I'm not sure your situations are completely similar.

She hasn't been back in a while though, i wonder what she is thinking.

Oh, crossposted!

Round this is a supportive website, and you should be able to explre what you wish (of course bearing in mind that this isn't a private space)

What you certainly don't need is somebody like Yogii potentially making you feel even worse about yourself than you do already