Strip club

[Roundtheruggedrocks]

I've lurked on the relationship section for a while, am aware of the wide variety of opinions and find it really insightful. I wondered if MN could cast their eye over this and tell me what to do about it?

DH (we're newly married, no DCs) two months ago lied to me about going to a strip club with friends and having a lap dance. I found out through our mutual bank account records (DH is stupid and disorganised over that stuff) and got very upset. I spent a week not talking to him, heard all his explanations (he maintains it wasn't a lie, that he was drunk and would have told me the truth when he sobered up,) but I checked the online account so soon the next day that he didn't have a chance to tell me the truth. i threatened to leave and DH said no way - started crying, said he'd do anything, that he doesn't even enjoy lap dances and remembers nothing from that evening.

In the past (before he met me) DH went to strip clubs with friends maybe twice a year - on stag dos, so I know that he knows the ropes and it wasn't a one-off in his life. He told me when we first met that he had been to these places too. i admittedly hadn't been clear to DH that getting a lap dance was a deal breaker for me, which is his main argument. He says if he had known he wouldn't have done it and he thought because we had talked about his past experiences there that I would be fine with it.

But why lie? This is what bugs me. He doesn't get it - he maintains he didn't lie - that he was just drunk and tired and didn't want me to go ballistic. I need to get over this and get on with our marriage, me continually bringing it up poisons every good time we have together.

Aside from the lap dance thing, DH and I have a great relationship - he treats me like a queen, hence why this insecurity has suddenly come out of the blue. I've started to think that maybe DH likes the stripper thing - the platinum blonde, big tits, body make-up thing (I am a pale, flat chested brunette) and I have become insecure about my looks and weight too. What do you think I should do?

OP, there are a number of men who do change the way they treat their partners once they are pregnant/give birth. Since this man is talking about having 'caught you', 'got you forever' etc, it's possible that once you are pregnant he will see you as even more 'caught' and therefore not consider that he has to treat you as well as he does now.

There are quite a lot of threads on here about men who have done this kind of thing - and worse, become emotionally or physically abusive.

And I agree with previous posters - if he thought you'd be "cool" with it, why did he put off telling you because he thought you'd go ballisitic?

well, he treats you like your opinion doesn't matter now so God knows how that will go when you are barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen

think on

and my further advice ?

be clear in future, and forget about the "cool wife" bullshit

many women have come cropper to that...not that it's their fault....just that some dickheads take it and make one plus one equal three

there is no obligation to be a "cool wife" and if you are feeling it, you are in a coerced realtionship

Be careful about a man who appears to treat you like his princess and is very giving in a material sense. Accept all with caution as there can sometimes be a hidden 'quid pro quo' attached, such as entitling him to do things that you wouldn't like. Being overly supportive can turn into something else, I hope for your sake this does not prove to be the case.

I may be being completely dumb or lacking perspective. What - in the typical characteristics of people like this - would he do if I became pregnant or had kids? I understand you'll be speculating - but how would it change?

I realise I'm not getting it totally, that's why I need it spelled out to me...

My experience of a man like this was that once I had kids lots of things changed - he no longer tried to hide his disrespect for me (he seemed to have the attitude that I was well and truly tied to him, so he could behave however he liked). He pretty much lost all interest in me sexually. His disrespect began to be directed towards our children. Lots of other things I won't go into. But yes I completely agree, that having children changed things for the worse. The best thing I ever did was to get out of my marriage, but by that point, it was also the hardest and most stressful time of my life.

The main advice I would give you, (thinking that at this point you will be wanting it to work) is as I've said before, become VERY assertive about what you believe to be right, and do not accept any disrespect. You need to spell out that you think "boys being boys" is a load of rubbish and that if anything like this happens again you will be gone (and mean it). Tell him he has hurt you and you WILL need time to get over it. If he talks about strippers as "women like that" pull him up on it - tell him you don't want to hear him talking about women/people in that way.

I never did any of that. I just accepted/ justified/ excused/ ignored the way he behaved. I lost all confidence. Do everything you can not to become like that.

MagicHouse thanks for telling me about your experience, it sounds awful. I hope my marriage won't descend into that. I suppose all I'm prepared to do at this point is try to prevent it and to assert myself, like you said.

At the moment, both sets of parents agree with him, that I need to let go. I will let go, but I'll stay very hyper aware and assertive about what's going on.

I will also change my therapist.

You are already compromising

You have no family support

I see the writing on the wall, sorry

You will look back on this as a pivotal point...but by then it will be too late

OP I'm really sorry to hear that your parents aren't supporting you. Please only let it go - whatever that means - if you want to. I think you're here because you don't want to, and rightly so....The consensus is that this is something of a red flag. I've reread your original post and it sounds as though this incident may well be part of a wider dynamic. Please don't let your slide into insecurity go unchecked. Well done for confronting it so far, too.

OP, has your DH got a close female friend? Maybe from uni, or his sister's best mate?

How would his parents, and your parents, be judging the situation if your DH had asked said friend to strip off, rub against him, try to turn him on?

Would they be telling you to let it go?

Round im sorry but IM in a sexless marriage with no family support (in my case hes asexual) but the result is the same.
And im willing to bet that your parents agree with him because.
a. You are woman and the mans needs come above yours.
b. They are hoping for some grandchildren.

They are only thinking of themselves.

I keep coming across blatent apologism both from ppl in RL and a few posters on this site and it is really depressing that women are being told and fed subliminal messages to expect so little.

OP, so far this man has:

Lied to you because he thought you would go ballistic, therefore knowing you wouldn't be happy
Accused you of practicing a deception because you'd been "cool" with his stories of other visits to strip clubs (which by the sounds of it didn't include lap dances, at least in the stories)
Has said "you're losing too much weight, what's wrong with you?"
Has got annoyed with you for still being upset about this
Has suggested that you go to this strip club together as this will somehow make you feel better (WTF?)
Has said that thinking about strippers is below a woman like you
Has said that "it's not particularly classy, but it's what men do" when you have expressed an opinion he doesn't like

All of these things have been in the last two months. He really doesn't sound like he treats you like a queen.

Oh dear. Women who think they 'rule the roost' because they do all the organising, all the administration and all the micro-managing of a couple or family's life really don't have equality at all. They are fulfilling a parental role and not that of an equal partner.

Which dovetails neatly into the Madonna-Whore complex. You are 'mummy' but you are sexless and revered.

Whereas those sex-workers are the ones who are sexualised, but not regarded as fully human, rounded women who have brains or hearts.

Men like your husband get much worse when their wives are pregnant or have given birth. The madonna switch is now complete and far from being revered, you are despised because of your vulnerability and dependence- especially if you aren't earning your own money.

I really sympathise with you if you've been brought up by parents who think this sort of behaviour is excusable in men and have married a man who, it seems was also brought up with that sort of entitlement. You're getting a lot of pressure from these people and it must feel like you're the one with the problem- not them.

The only problem you've got as far as your individual self is concerned is thinking that you have got to change yourself and the way you look and behave, to stop your husband wanting to buy sexual services from other women.

It really has got nothing to do with how you behave or present yourself. He'd still feel entitled to use other women in exchange for his money.

^I can't believe I'm defending this man, but it's out of concern for Round. Her husband might be saying he'd never consider a relationship with a sex worker, not that he sees them as lumps of meat.

Round, you're already feeling confused and hurt - please don't let our responses panic you. You know your husband. I do think you should consider professional help to talk through your feelings about your appearance and attractiveness. Your husband's behaviour is unhelpful and unkind.^

I agree Vivacia, that's sensible advice.
It appears some people on here are just shit stirring.

OP It should be noted that there are a number of radfems and activists who frequent these forums who absolutely despise things like strip clubs, page 3, lads mags, porn etc (see the many threads) So i don't think you are going to get a very balanced view over here. As far as they are concerned anyone who indulges in such things is scum and anything less than dumping your husband will not suffice in their eyes.

Also with regards to your husbands ex who was a stripper. Could his reaction to her just be a way for him to play her down to you? He is hardly going to say he has the greatest respect for her, is he? So i think the allegations of objectification and misogyny being spouted are not entirely fair in this case.

I am worried for you, too, Round, after reading about how he used to say he'd "caught" you, that you were "always going to belong" to him.

It worries me because, combined with his clearly misogynistic views - which do suggest a madonna/whore attitude - he's shaping up to be a specific kind of man, who does not treat his partner well once she has his children.

I know many, many marriages which have lasted reasonably well under similar circumstances. The wives treat their men as if they were large children with DIY skills, expect little of them and are seldom disappointed. They don't ask awkward questions. They get their emotional support from women friends, and they have affairs. They are, it seems to me, only loosely attached to their husbands.

You don't sound like the kind of person who'd be comfortable living like this. You don't strike me as superficial enough or tough enough. What do you think? Could you tell us how you and H imagine your future together?

I agree you should ditch your therapist.

Look, I can understand how Darkest has interpreted my comments as misogynistic apologism. I take some responsibility for his/her interpretation.

I'm not defending this man's views. I don't they are ok. I do, however think that there are other options than to leave him. I agree with the advice above about addressing this through talk and therapy.

Lib,regardless of your views on strip clubs, do you think the OP's DH is treating her well, handling her concerns sensitively etc?

I feel like I rule the roost but you don't. you were mistaken to feel you did....we all make mistakes.

always going to belong how are you going to deal with this? it wont go away even if you stick you head in the sand or convenience yourself its okay. he will keep thinking 'boys will be boys' and we all know what that leads to.

I worry for people who have been brought up to absorb the kinds of woman-hating messages that Libertarianj is spouting.

It amounts to "shut up woman, and serve your man"

I think (as I hope I've made clear) that there is much to worry about here. OP, I've reread your posts, and am really concerned about your weight loss and what sounds like the beginning or recurrence (can't tell from what you say) of a disordered relationship with your body. Please do look after yourself

For the posters saying they think the husband's views on sex workers are understandable - I think that is the most understandable part of the OP. I wouldn't want to have a relationship with a stripper either - largely because of my ideas about sexual fidelity. But nor would I pay for their services. And the most concerning thing imo is the OP now being bullied by her DH and their parents to completely compromise her views. That is an abusive relationship imo.

Libertarian while I am happy to be called a radical feminist for my views (though frankly looking round my life, I am not one) I don't think that thinking strip clubs are vile and the men who frequent them guilty of deeply questionable attitudes toward women is a particularly unusual or radical point of view.

But I do agree with Vivacia that the OP is here for support and not to be scared witless. I've just been on another thread where the dreadful forebodings saw the OP run for the hills. Leaving a marriage overnight is simply not an option for most people, psychologically. Nor do we know enough about the OP's husband to recommend it.

The OP and her DH apparently come from families, and the DH has a circle of friends, where this is acceptable. That doesn't mean that his views can't change. Maybe it's naive, but if this were my marriage I'd try to work exactly what his deeply held beliefs are, for a start. Which is why I think therapy is a good first option - though OP please don't see this as a panacea or think that the therapist will be on your 'side'. You must continue to stick up for yourself.

And I hadn't realised you're already in therapy. Sorry, I must read more carefully. Ditch your therapist! He or she does not seem to be helping you to be well. And pursue this issue with your husband until you're happy. It sounds at the moment that he knows that you're uncertain, and is taking the chance to bully you into his point of view. That in itself really does not bode well for your marriage or his view of you.

That was long, sorry.

?Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.? ? William Gibson

In defence of this guy I think everyone is confusing "want" and "choose". Yes there are some "holes" in the story (no pun intended) but this is just him digging deeper. I have been to these venues a couple of times, both stag dos. I have been on stag dos where it is possible to avoid and times when it hasn't. On my own i had a private dance in a private room paid for me (there was no grinding and she wasnt that much closer than in the main room). The whole thing was somewhat embarrassing. Many comments have asserted he wouldn't have liked it if she had paid some bloke to grind up against them. Possibly but I wouldn't care particularly because I know my partner wouldn't really want to go off and shag them. But in the same way that women's motives at hen strip shows isnt really sexual the same goes for a lot (although by no means all) of blokes. The boys night out comradeship is a bit loutish but shouldn't be seen as betrayal. Men are often insensitive, stupid when drunk, and like the sight of naked women. But dont write this guy off for what is really an act of thoughtless than cruelty.

Good post, rooty,

Faster

tomb I have been on stag dos where it is possible to avoid and times when it hasn't

were you unable top say 'no' then?

if DP went to a strip club then told me he 'could not get out of it', I would think that was pathetic.

what are your friends going to do if you say no to going to a strip club?