Strip club

[Roundtheruggedrocks]

I've lurked on the relationship section for a while, am aware of the wide variety of opinions and find it really insightful. I wondered if MN could cast their eye over this and tell me what to do about it?

DH (we're newly married, no DCs) two months ago lied to me about going to a strip club with friends and having a lap dance. I found out through our mutual bank account records (DH is stupid and disorganised over that stuff) and got very upset. I spent a week not talking to him, heard all his explanations (he maintains it wasn't a lie, that he was drunk and would have told me the truth when he sobered up,) but I checked the online account so soon the next day that he didn't have a chance to tell me the truth. i threatened to leave and DH said no way - started crying, said he'd do anything, that he doesn't even enjoy lap dances and remembers nothing from that evening.

In the past (before he met me) DH went to strip clubs with friends maybe twice a year - on stag dos, so I know that he knows the ropes and it wasn't a one-off in his life. He told me when we first met that he had been to these places too. i admittedly hadn't been clear to DH that getting a lap dance was a deal breaker for me, which is his main argument. He says if he had known he wouldn't have done it and he thought because we had talked about his past experiences there that I would be fine with it.

But why lie? This is what bugs me. He doesn't get it - he maintains he didn't lie - that he was just drunk and tired and didn't want me to go ballistic. I need to get over this and get on with our marriage, me continually bringing it up poisons every good time we have together.

Aside from the lap dance thing, DH and I have a great relationship - he treats me like a queen, hence why this insecurity has suddenly come out of the blue. I've started to think that maybe DH likes the stripper thing - the platinum blonde, big tits, body make-up thing (I am a pale, flat chested brunette) and I have become insecure about my looks and weight too. What do you think I should do?

At the moment, both sets of parents agree with him, that I need to let go - it is not their decision. They don't live your life. They are not planning on spending the rest of their lives, maybe having children, with him. I think it is totally out of order for them to be so forthcoming in their views. asking you to just sweep this under the carpet.

Agree with AgathaF.
It's not their decision at all.
I wouldn't even discuss it with any of the parents.

Plus the parents are probably closer to my generation and I'm sorry to say that there are people around my age who really do hold antiquated opinions about strippers and how it's all just 'harmless fun' and 'boys will be boys' etc.

I'm struggling to understand libertarian's point about why the OP's husband is hardly likely to say to his wife that 'he had the greatest respect' for the stripper he spent a couple of evenings with. Why on earth not? If he did have respect for this human being, why would this need to be hidden and played down?

Neither do I understand in the least how it can ever be 'impossible' for a man - or a woman come to that - not to buy sexual services on a stag night. Does someone put a gun to these revellers' heads? Or is it just that they are too weak of character to 'show out' to their friends and it's that they find impossible?

Hi Op,

I think you're getting being treated to the usual extreme reactions to this, things like.... thinks he's entitled to pay women to use them, pay for being sexually serviced, etc. And yet he is baffled.

I'm 50 and these places didn't exist in this country (not in my town, maybe in Soho) when I grew up. I would have regarded such places as seedy and the entertainment spots of dirty old men. These days it's different, every town up and down the country has one or more of these places and it's regarded as pretty mainstream by many. It's not unusual for company entertainment to be done in them, using company expense accounts. There have been TV series about them and the people who run them and work in them, on mainstream TV stations, not even the late night adult channels.

Now I'm not defending them (they're another import from the US that we could have done without - i'd be happy to see them all close tomorrow), but I can see why someone who's grown up in an era of widespread acceptance might be baffled and might not think it such a big deal. I also don't think people walk into these places with a air of entitlement about them, they just don't analyse it that way.

Having said all that, I do agree with some posters' responses to what he's said about dating these women but not having a relationship, etc. I don't like some of that but the more he's asked to explain this the deeper he digs himself into a hole.

Onto your reaction. The UK is full of fat people, and they don't all walk around in fear of losing their partners because there are a few skinny people out there. Men will look at attractive people of all shapes and sizes, and be perfectly happy with their partner over the years whatever ageing does to them.

You need to be comfortable in your own skin. Put the 7kg back on. (And send me your diet :-)

You married a guy who thinks lapdancing clubs are ok, and you knew this. He's now gone to one while with you and he's found it exactly how you feel about it. He's said he won't do it again. If he's not let you down before maybe you should believe him and move on.

"how it's all just 'harmless fun' and 'boys will be boys' etc"

But that's the issue CVS. That view isn't the antiquated one, that's the contemporary view!

I disagree Yogii . I think many in our generation tend to just think this is 'boys being boys' (reading your earlier post we are contemporaries). I think it's generally younger people who are more enlightened and open to actually thinking about the real issues.

I'm interested that you seem to think that strip clubs didn't exist outside of Soho before lapdancing clubs came along. That's simply not true. I didn't grow up anywhere near London but where I lived, there have always been strip clubs since I can remember, and there have also always been local pubs that have had strippers as 'entertainment'. Social clubs too.
The pubs were never regulated and there are some utterly dreadful stories of the sort of things that used to go in them - not just removing clothes and gyrating in front of a man's face. I remember my a boyfriend of mine telling me about one such display back in the mid 1980's and I was horrified by what had gone on.

I'm also struggling to picture a situation where you couldn't avoid having a lap dance. I was going to say my partner would avoid it for the sake of my feelings, but I know from past discussions he'd avoid it for his own sake.

Yes I remember that there were pubs in the 80s where this went on, in fact your post jogged my memory - I actually worked in one that on a couple of occasions had 'events' of that nature. But now that every town up and down the country has permanent lap dancing bars I think it's much more mainstream that it was back then. I wonder what % of ages 20-30 have been in one, possibly quite high.

And girls visit them too. I know my wife was told by a bunch of female friends of my son that they would take her in the local one for a laugh and to show her what goes on. The conversation was about my wife's shock that the girls had been inside one. And these are all Uni educated young professionals in very good jobs (just in case you are imagining chavvy Kyle show types :-)

We're in an age of quite shocking acceptance of this. A few of my son's friends follow porn stars on Twitter, and admit to it!

Your starting point should be that you are at least as important as your DH (and maybe then some ;-)). However, for some reason, you are not believing this as you appear to seek to change yourself (weightloss) and your opinions to gain his appreciation. There is some hope here that this is creating some discord with you, hence you are on here. Maybe therapy will help you to understand why others opinion matters so greatly as it's your opinion that should count the most and superceed others. Do not put him on a pedastool because of all the wonderful things he does and do not dislike yourself any less because of what he may or may not think -what matters here is what you believe about both yourself and his behaviour.

faster, on my own stag-do I did say no and was literally dragged in...on the other I was one of two best-men and out-voted by the rest of the party. The other BM, his brother didn't make the stag, I wasn't going to make him feel doubly let down by leaving the party early.

Whether you like it or not the stripper it is seen as part of a "send-off", increasingly so for women too. On other occasions I have been in groups which have split into two, and everyone is happy. My fiancee didn't care and knew about both occasions, so I didn't see it as a betrayal of her, more a complete waste of money, we could have spent the same amount on a meal out in a good restaurant. I think the club owners exploit both the women and their customers to be honest, but everyone involved, in reputable clubs, is a fully consenting adult, so I think this idea that everyone who has gone into a strip-club is a "misogynistic twat" is over the top.

What is your view on male strippers faster?

It's not a deal breaker for me.

I wouldn't want my other half going every week, but a stag do etc its gonna happen.
I've been to two clubs myself, no biggy.
I agree there are far worse things being seen in working men's clubs/unregulated pubs and strippers for stag dos
Most men don't love this kind of thing, they go along with the lads, they certainly don't want to run off with the dancer or want their wives to be like her.
I had a good friend that did lap dancing for a while, she loved it and made a fortune.

Maybe I'm just weird but I don't think it's a massive deal as a one off

So you were bullied by men who are supposed to be your friends into doing something against your will ?

You need better friends.
Nothing more pathetic than a man succumbing to peer pressure.

What I'll never understand is why people say 'whether you like it or not, this is what happens' without working out that it will keep happening unless you have the courage of your convictions to say you disagree with it, want no part of it and then take it a step further and try to have a reasoned discussion with the company you keep about why you think it's an indefensible practice on both equality and exploitation grounds.

Why is that so hard?

And why are you asking about male strippers when this thread is about female lapdancers?

If most men allegedly don't like this stuff, and go due to peer pressure , then why do any of them ever go in? If no-one in a group of ten really want it, how come them all end up sat in there? Madness, or they do really like it but continue to pretend not to.

BelaLugosisShed, "Nothing more pathetic than a man succumbing to peer pressure." No it's called compromise, going with the flow, trying something outside your comfort zone. I bet you're the kind of person who insists on dragging all your friends to the same terrible restaurant, and that dictates what is going to be ordered.

Sometimes people do things that they wouldn't chose to do on their own in order to be out with their friends. Just because they choose to spend their hard earned cash on strippers doesn't make them bad people. On my stag, there were 19 guys of which 14 went into the strip joint. 4 went directly to a club, 1 went home. Of the 14 that went in none of them had other-halves who objected. I think the guy who went home's wife might have, and he has quite strong Christian beliefs. Of the 4 that went directly to the club, none of them did so because they had girlfriends who would have objected. Mosschops30, you're far from weird, your response it typical of all my friends girlfriends/wives, and everyone I have gone out with that I have discussed the issue with.

AgathaF, have you never heard the phrase "rite of passage"?

Tombli

tom I am not the marrying kind but if I were I would make sure that everyone knew I was not up for strippers beforehand.

my view of male strippers: very unsexy pointless forced fun.

why didn't you say before hand no lapdancing? just going along with it is lame.

Leavenheath, because I don't object to it on equality grounds. Nor, in the huge list of exploitative relationships that exist in the world would I rate this particularly highly. Is there much of a difference between male strippers and female lapdancers? Do you actually know what happens in a lap dance?

they certainly don't want to run off with the dancer or want their wives to be like her.

I don't care about that bit. for me it would be like DP deciding to experiment with EDL.

I would think, what a total dick. and if he tried the my mates were doing it I would think pathetic dick.

The discussion about guys being dragged into strip clubs isn't helpful for OP is it. Her partner openly enjoys them -he even dated a stripper - but she doesn't.

Why does a 'rite of passage' have to involve the sex industry?

Were the 'rites of passage' of your youth poorer for not being able to easily access the sex industry then?

If your friends insisted you had to do something you personally objected to and disliked on every stag night, why would you just go along with that?

Surely your strawman accusation towards Bela is in fact what you are saying you and your friends have done? You're saying that the majority of your friends have insisted on having a sex industry element on stag nights, despite a few of you not wanting to participate. Surely then it is those men who are in your analogy, insisting on taking you all to a terrible restaurant and ordering food you don't want, but you've personally said and done nothing?

I think pathetic covers that quite neatly, actually.

Oh, I see you don't object to the sex industry on equality grounds. I wish you'd said that earlier.

Yes I do know what happens in a lapdance and how much they vary according to the venue and the price paid.

I read this with my jaw dropping, whilst I feel sorry for the OP some of the misstatements from the facts given seem incredible.

He didn't tell her the night before when he was drunk, she found out early the following morning. He didn't lie to her about it. OK you will say he lied by ommisson, if that had gone on for a couple of days or even 24 hours yes, but seemingly we are talking a short period of time (overnight).

She has now put a clear marker down, when he had related to her that he'd done it before she didn't. He says he will respect that is how she feels and he won't do it again.

That's for him to prove and her to see. If yo're not ready to move on OP then your not ready, but you must not blame yourself. It's been 2 months since then, the main question is has he done anything like it, if not then maybe, just maybe you can see how it goes. Continually doubting him and yourself will not do you relationship any good. As has been said, change your therapist.

So you were bullied by men who are supposed to be your friends into doing something against your will ?
You need better friends.
Nothing more pathetic than a man succumbing to peer pressure.

I have to agree with this, and the OPs DHs argument that its just what men do is ridiculous too.

Some men can't stand up to their own mates and say no when they clearly don't want something, sure. But that is pretty pathetic.

I have no respect for men who play the 'forced in against my will' card. If you really were physically manhandled, what stopped you a)walking back out and b) finishing said friendships? A: You wanted to go in.

Leavenheath, you seem to think that men's stag-dos are determined by the stag. They're not. The BM has to organise a night which a large number of men with very different preferences will enjoy and consider a "proper stag-do". Was I bullied? No. Coerced? Yes. Would you say I was also bullied into Sambuca shots too? The majority of the party wanted to go in. In the restaurant analogy most people want to go to a crappy restaurant that you think is overpriced and not very good but you go along because its not the venue that is important its being with your friends. The strip-club makes the evening standout, "oh that was the evening when we went there", a talking point. For some men there will be a sexual element, sure. But it is about blokes being blokes. I would guess that the majority of blokes between 25 and 45 have been to a stripjoint at least once. Does it make them an emotional abuser of their partner if they do it once in a blue moon? No.

you seem to think that men's stag-dos are determined by the stag
would it be wrong to suggest someone needs to man up?

it is about blokes being blokes
oh that's makes it all fine then

Does it make them an emotional abuser of their partner if they do it once in a blue moon? It makes them a dick as I said before.