Dp says his disposable income is too low!

[mousiemousie]

Dp and I have average paid jobs; I work 23 hours a week, he is full time.

From his wages he keeps approx £450 per month to spend purely on himself and feels extremely hard done by that it is not more. I think this is not bad for someone with a mortgage and a young child and can't think that there are too many fathers who have much more than this as "pocket money". Who is right?!!

i remember seeing a thread about who does the finances and noticed a lot of mums on here hadn't a clue how the finances worked in their household and were happy to leave it to their DPs, and that's their choice. therefore, these same people must be happy with the amount of money received into the family pot with perhaps little or no reference to how much is earned in the first place. therefore, how do they know if it's unfair or not? what you see as unfair may not be perceived as that by other people, male or female. i think saying financial situations are always to men's advantage is a sweeping statement. in other families, the man may have financial control but the woman has control in other areas and that's what they're happy with. that's the key for me, both partners being happy with their arrangement, whatever it may be. it's not about what a stranger thinks is fair for them and their family. mousie is unhappy so we feel for her, and her situation does sound extreme with little room for negotiation, but everyone has different financial set ups and have to choose what is best for them.

Tribpot you made me laugh about all the stuff you should be doing by rights! When you say "work stress has uncovered lurking home stress to the point where it can't be ignored any more" you are bang on in your assessment.

The chinese proverb may well be good advice for me right now, although I am quite concerned that I have sat back on problems for far too long already!

Thanks again to all those who have shared their thoughts - I think to be honest the money thing is just a manifestation of a big underlying problem - which is how well can dp and I provide a good environment for dd, when there is no pretence at love for each other, and when the mutual respect which has been on the surface cracks under pressure - and when he still has the responsibility level and attitude of a teenager in so many ways.

To be honest there is no foundation to our relationship so we won't be able to sort this out - we are currently pretending it hasn't happened. For the past 7 years I have been attempting to "make the best of a bad job" reflecting the situation I am in following my own poor decision making in choice of career and choice of partner. Unfortunately I have no confidence in myself that making changes will improve things as I am really scared they will get worse. And I am not coping that well now, so worse would probably do me in for good!!!

The immediate impact of splitting up would probably be to move somewhere that isn't as nice (maybe even back with my parents) to make poor dd change schools and move her relationship with her dad to a much lower level one, to upset dd, my friends and my family...and there would be no guarentee of any big positive aspects that I can see so far - although that sounds ridiculous so I am working on that one! Not having to live with dp would be nice, but living on my own doesn't sound a barrel of laughs exactly!

Mercy thanks for your kind words - maybe I should see a GP but I don't want to admit how hard I am finding things, don't want to take ADs and have a feeling that any counselling would probably be 6 months away.

Crumbs, reading that back I may be up for an award for most negative post ever

Mousie, you don't necessarily have to leave the family home and uproot dd.

Didn't you say the house is in your name?

I'm sure there are plenty of mums on here who could advise you on the financial aspects of splitting up.

I really think you should consider going to Relate, even if you go by yourself. I believe they can give all kinds of advice, including how to deal with dd if you do split up.

Good luck whatever you decide.

xx

soopermum: You are right, all women have the right to be ignorant/blind about the injustice that exists in their relationships.

Most of us prefer equality.

MP, your idea of 'equality' is that everyone should live by what you think is the right way to live and that they are 'ignorant' or blind' if they do not.

sounds like a dictatorship to me

sorry for hijacking your thread, mousie

er no my obviously ker-azee "idea of equality" is that the man shouldn't get more money than the woman

obviously v. radical

MP

at the risk of repeating myself, i have never said it is right that men should get more than women, but it is up to the individual to choose what makes them happy, not what you think should make them happy. maybe my philosophy is 'ker-azee' too in your world

@ mp.

mousie: it strikes me that you need to change something in your life soon, and that the easiest thing to change is actually your job. have you looked for another one? If I were in your shoes, I think I would apply for anything that would give me some money and school working hours (and I'm thinking cleaning, care asst type jobs here). now is not the time to be worrying about stepping off the career ladder, and you never know, you might find another career (believe it or not I eventually ended up being a programmer because I worked as a part time care assistant for a couple of years. it's a long story). Just a thought. good luck

no i agree

if women feel that they have enough money and want to give part of their share to their husbands, then that's lovely

MP I am as amazed as you to find in 2006, not that there are women who are happy to leave the financial side of things up to their husband/partner, but that there are women who accept being told that it isn't our money, it's mine, even though as Tribpot says, when you have kids, it's the person who stays at home who enables the other person to earn that money in the first place!

Soopermum, I'm not saying that it's wrong to be ignorant about where the money comes from and - more often - where it goes (my DH is like this!), but putting up with being told you are effectively less deserving of reward for the work you do both inside and outside of the family unit is just depressing in this day and age.

er, isn't that what partnerships are about? and isn't that what this thread is about, that mousie's DP shouldn't be keeping a large chunk of wages to himself when it's making her unhappy?

wordsmith, i have never once said mousie should put up with her situation or that any woman should put up with what they, personally, see as inequality. but what some women see as inequality is different to how other women (or men) see it and we shouldn't force our views on others but try to encourage each other to find happiness the best way that individual can.

absolutely soopermum because disposable income should be split 50/50 and anything less is grossly unfair

....in your opinion

"I am as amazed as you to find in 2006, not that there are women who are happy to leave the financial side of things up to their husband/partner, but that there are women who accept being told that it isn't our money, it's mine,"

I agree but how does a woman in this situation force her partner to give her a fair and reasonable amount of money if all the wages go into his account. What do you suggest?

Many women are in this situation, as I'm sure you know.

I would go to relationship counselling pronto.

If we can't get equality in our marriages, what kind of message is that to the children we are raising?

MP, again, i repeat, this is what you would do and what would work for you (and would you be able to force a man to relationship councelling if you couldn't force him to hand over more of his money?)it doesn;t work for everyone. now you're just forcing your opinion onto us and calling every woman who doesn't comply to your view 'blind' and 'ignorant'. i'm afraid we'll probably suffer this difference of opinion over a lot of issues.

from misreading my posts you seem to be of the belief that i think mousie's situation is right, it is not as she is not happy with it but has she specifically said she wants a 50/50 split in the way you described? it seems to be the only option you think should work for every woman, but i don't think it is. allow people to think for themselves and come up with solutions that work for them

The rights and wrongs of a 50/50 split aren't the issue for me on this one - it's really about whether it is reasonable for me to ask dp to give up some proportion of his current £450 spending money each month to enable me to take on a job that made me happier than my current one does - and whether £450 was really a tiny sum in the first instance as dp thinks (it really shocked me that that is what he thinks).

I would also expect to have less money to spend myself, and to try to reduce general household expenditure too (eg the supermarket bill). Dp thinks it is wholly unreasonable for him to have less than he already has each month to spend on himself, and it has just come out that he already fundamentally resents that I should work less hours than him at all. He also thinks that if he is working full time he should not be expected to contribute to any of the family or household work or responsibilities. If he chooses to, this is because he is going above and beyond what could reasonably be expected of him and I should be very appreciative of that.

Senora - I would like to do what you suggest but dp is utterly against it - we can't manage financially on less if we don't pull together, even then we may have to move if I end up earning a lot less. I can't afford to live in my house without dp's financial contribution, even if he paid me maintenance instead. So just changing my job isn't really a stand alone option.

A friend at work yesterday suggested another job as an idea, that looked worth investigating so I feel a bit more positive about finding something else. In the meantime I have been asked to "go for coffee" with our director tomorrow which I am terrified about as I don't want to cry and he is difficult to talk to with quite challenged interpersonal skills! God knows how badly that could go wrong!

Oh dear. Your dp hasn't really got the partnership/family thing, has he? It's not even about having a 50/50 split, it's about both of you feeling that the available resources and demands (money, childcare, housework, paid work) are split in a way that you both feel is fair. In the end, once you marry or set up home, and certainly once you have children, you're not two individuals any more, you're a single unit, and however you divvy up the finances and the paid/unpaid work, it has to be a setup that both of you are reasonably happy with.

You're not alone, mousie -- there have been other posters in the past with similar arrangments, but it's not okay if one of you is left feeling that you've got the raw end of the deal, particularly if the other person is not prepared to take those feelings seriously and discuss them. If your work situation is making you really unhappy, then that is something that affects all of you as a family, and it's reasonable to expect him to sit down with you and try to come up with a more workable solution. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to live on economy baked beans and lentils (though there are circs in which that might be the least worst option), but it does mean that you should all sit down and try to work out which permutations of paid/unpaid work and more/less money are likely to fulfil the greatest good of the greatest number.

Can you try to find out which aspects of the possible changes he finds threatening? Even the most amiable men can get arsey if they feel that an aspect of life that they see as central to their identity is under threat, but they need to be gently persuaded to see that it's not a case of all or nothing, but rather that by making a few adjustments (eg. buying one or two CDs a month rather than 10 or 20) they can bring about an increase in overall family happiness without suffering too much deprivation themselves. My dh can generally be brought round by pointing out that happier wife = more and better sex.

I hope you can work something out, mousie.

Sadly, we BOTH feel we have the raw end of the deal it seems. So neither is happy, but dp is happy enough. I was, but now my job has become so dire I am no longer "happy enough".

Perhaps there is a workable solution which we could arrive at once we both have stopped being so shocked at how differently we see the current situation. I simply can't see amything straight anymore.

I asked my dh what he thought about £450 a month since he's a computer techie. He thought it was a huge amount, and if anyone spends lots on computer gadgets, it's my dh! £450 would pay for a nice holiday for all of you.

Personally I find your dh's attitude very difficult to accept. I'd feel very angry and feel I'd got a raw deal.

If I were in your shoes, I'd start clawing back some 'treats' for myself. Look around and see what's out there on the job front - you don't have to accept it, just look for the opportunities. If you have an offer, your dh might just back down and let you take it. Right now it's still an idea so it's easier for him to dismiss it. If it were conrete, he'd have to take it seriously. I'd also start doing things for myself - going out once a week or fortnight with friends and leave him to babysit. As a sweetener I'd praise him for the tiny amount he does around the house - maybe he'll be inspired to do a little more? He has said he expects appreciation - if you give it to him you might turn it to your advantage. My Japanese sister-in-law says one must be like water - on the surface appear to acquiesce, but slowly mould things to go your way. Really works for her! I'm far too blunt.

Ultimately I think it's about power - your dh likes being in the driving seat. By taking control of your life - starting to look for a new, better job - you show him that you're not a doormat and you're worthy of his respect (you are already of course!).

Really feel for you - all the best.

Sorry I have changes my name for this, for pretty obvious reasons

I am the sole earner in our family. I am very well paid,I earned > £200,000 last year but my dh currently earns less that the childcare for our two youngest. So he stays at home. Neither of us have £450 a MONTH to fritter on crap for ourselves. (that prob sounds mad until you see the size or our mortgage :() That probably sounds really rubbish but I weant you to see that even in 'wealthy' households we dont have nearly that musch to spend on 'ourselves'.

I earn money for my FAMILY. For the children, for our family holiday, for shoes, clothes,food, mortgage, treats, insurance (school fees - sorry) etc etc etc. All of it and I mean ALL is shared, its for us all. dh does one job in our family and I do another, when we are at both at home we share the chores and the childcare.

I am competely NOT special.but i am appauled at the crappy attitude of some men and really really sorry that their dp's have to put up with it.

Mousie, I wish you everything good and the strength to make the most of your life and to show your dd that being a woman does not have to mean being 'second class' and accepting this kind of crap. you sound like such are caring mother and person, I really hope it works out for you.

BLOODYNORA: but i am appauled at the crappy attitude of some men and really really sorry that their dp's have to put up with it.

Firstly, I completely agree with this.

SOOPRMUM: "would you be able to force a man to relationship councelling if you couldn't force him to hand over more of his money?"

1. It would not be his money and the very fact that you use that language is profoundly depressing.

1. If I was in a relationship where my husband was effectively abusing me by withholding finances that were rightfully mine, and he was not prepared to go to relationship counselling, then I would think that things were Very Bad Indeed.

However, I've spent lots of time in marriage counselling and I can thoroughly recommend it for resolving issues of communication.

"it doesn;t work for everyone"

That's the whole point of equality - it does work for everyone. But if you are saying that not all women can get their husbands to treat them fairly, then no, they cannot, and how very sad that is.

"now you're ... calling every woman who doesn't comply to your view 'blind' and 'ignorant'."

No, I said that women have the right to chose to remain ignorant/blind about finances - as you said, there are women here who are utterly "clueless" about their family's finances. If they are happy with that, that's fine. I assume that they are quite happy that their partners are managing their family's finances wisely and distributing them fairly.

MP I am quietly applauding you here.

Over the years on MN I have seen/read many a thread where the finances are simly a way of the MAN controlling the WOMAN in a relationship. Yes there are instances where the woman doesn't want to know finances and is perfectly happy stickking their heads in the sand (so to speak) but usually this is where there is plenty of money coming in, in the first place, and where the husband is fair (eg equal shares), or the woman feels she has enough/the same as her partner to spend.

Liek you it makes my so sad where a woman doesn't want to know and isn't bothered, as I feel IMHO it is an immature way to deal with life and finance.

On the flip side I am the main breadwinner and therefore I do ALL the finances, within reason. DH and I are very lucky that I earn enough to pay all the bills and anything lef is MINE, however he earns enough that the leftover of my salary is similar to his salary IYKWIM, so we both have the same disposable income. When dh is earning more I simply make sure he puts it in the savings account, or that I ask him for extra money for specific items. For instance last month he paid the car tax and insurance as he is earning good money at teh mo, last year we paid it on DD monthly as I couldn't find £500 extra in one month. It is swings and roundabouts, although I think he is far richer than me at teh mo, but come mid July he isn't working for a month, then he has one week in August and that is it, until he finds more work. His money is needed for all those times he isn't working IYKWIM.

Anyway back to teh OP, Mousie you do need to talk and if it is relate then great. You need to find a way to get through to him what you want, or to get out.