Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

breathe, handholding from me too. It must also be very stressful to still be under the same roof too. You are doing really well. I can't remember if you have outside professional support? The childhood stuff is difficult, it must be, and it might be coming back now because you want to move on. But I am not an expert, I just know that for me, FW and abusive childhood are(were) very linked.I hope you had a better night sleep.

I woke up feeling that this is a nightmare, really. It should be over but it is not.

.... nightmare, really. It should be over but it is not. That, ditto Butterfly

fi I hope you're ok today, survived the teasing and everything. All hand holding as ever.

breathe I am also constantly waking feeling that I'm in a nightmare except my nightmare is that he is never coming back and it's very real. Hopefully I will learn. I have Florence and the Machine on constantly - loads of that album seems to reflect how I felt and how bad it could be and sounds utterly bonkers to have ever felt like that.

butterfly yy to being conditioned to being compliant and FW and my darling narcissistic mother (nc with her) share a lot of personality traits. Lucky him eh, I was ripe for manipulation. He and I bonded quite a lot over our childhoods and parents divorces but in the end, he used mine against me. 'you're such a victim', 'you need to forgive your mum' etc I hope your sunflowers bloom

bounty sorry about the house, you will find a new one and a new dream. Nice to have had a dream in the first place I guess

pony hope you had a good day too in the end

My day came and went. Another day without FW or any contact. Sigh. Another day of realising that he just is never coming back. And another day today of the same. Still exhausted, still processing and wondering how
Long this will take. I'm plagued by the idea of him and his girlfriend.

I keep trying to picture how bad it could have got. Remembering how he used to threaten to punch me in the face for looking at him a certain way, or if he was busy and I went shopping and he phoned me to see where I was and I said town, him saying 'what the fuck are you doing there?'. It could only have got worse. If we'd have had kids, I'd have been raising them single handedly - which is ok - but with a side order of abuse and person to look after. I wasn't even living with him and it was bad enough. Say we'd ever got that far, I'd only have become more vulnerable. Although that's supposing he ever had any intention of being with me and not just using me for money which I think was the case now...although I also know he regards me his property and wants control over me so maybe it wasn't just financial. And again, even if it had been moderately plain sailing with a family and all that, it would have gone tits up - he'd be the kind of bloke to run off with his daughters mate or something . So my hurt in the short term better than my hypothetical family in the long term. Cos then I'd be up on a murder charge.

Welcome 2013....I've read your story and it sounds shocking, defo some common ground with FW. I still question the abuse, as we all do, and yet are all shocked by others. I'm detoxing at the moment- day 8. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. The whole chemistry of my brain has been messed up by him. I need rebooting.

Bizarrely though, in the 3 weeks since he went AWOL, my random chin hair hasn't sprouted.

Morning all. Hey Fi, how are you? Hope you are doing ok and have survived the weekend.

Colin, you are doing well. You are getting through it. I think you are probably pretty close with your analysis of what could have happened if things got more serious with your ex. It would never have been good (for you), although he would have had a whale of a time at your expense - both metaphorically and actually.
Maybe try and think of some nice things to do to distract yourself?

Sun is shining here, and I plan to get out of the house with DS2 soon and go somewhere to enjoy it for a couple of hours. Second 'fast' day today (after my, ahem, food-fest last night ), got a nice hearty soup planned for lunch and a healthy ready meal for dinner that I'll bulk up with lots of salad and veg. Sounds ok for less than 500 calories all in, and very doable, and then tomorrow I can go back to normal eating. I find the 'conscious' eating really does help, I didn't do that last night, hence it all went a bit pear-shaped large chocolate Thorntons bunny shaped.

Hope it's sunny where you are, have a good day everyone.

Hey all, sun is shining here too.

I'm doing a DV recovery toolkit programme at the moment on Tues ams, and I thought I'd share something with you that I learned today. The programme is designed as a follow up to the Freedom Programme, and is to help you to deprogramme yourself after years of conditioning by your abuser. Today's session was about self-esteem. Many of you will know that I often feel uncomfortable in groups like that as I don't fit the 'stereotype' of an abused woman, but today was wonderful. We talked about strengths and weaknesses and began to identify each others strengths. I said how I felt that I was not strong, that I paint on my front each morning and pretend. As someone very wise said to me recently, 'fake it til you make it' and it appears to be true - many of the others said how I appeared so strong in the group, that I seemed so confident and sorted, how much sense I make and how much I help them. It is a million miles away from how I feel, and was desperately uncomfortable to hear (as a lifelong compliment refuser) but it seems that projection is working for the good in this case.

It got me thinking a bit about all the other negatives we'd been discussing and I started to wonder this afternoon which other ones I might be presenting a vastly different impression from the one which I felt was true. It turns out there are quite a few. And then I was wondering whether the impression I present is closer to the truth than my own perception of myself. I have a long way to go before I will believe that constructed front and yet..... and yet it seems a little more acceptable then before. Maybe one day!

It has also got me thinking that maybe this is an area I would like to work in. I know that one day I will have to pull my finger out and start earning a sensible wage (rather than teaching in the evenings) but I had always assumed I would go into school teaching - which is what I had started my degree with the intention of doing. I don't know, maybe it is just the recently converted evangelism in me speaking, but I really feel like I would like to be on the other side of the table. Not soon - I know that I need to sort myself out before I can even think of helping anyone else, but maybe one day it is something I would like to do. We'll see. It's another thing to add to the pot boiling away in the back of my head!

To all in need, big (((hugs))) and sunshine

Hi. Trying desperately to get out of my marriage before I am crushed to nothing. Can I just ask? When your partner is being a ba""@*ard and doing the whole emotional abuse thing has anybody else lost it and screamed like a lunatic? I'm just interested in the anger issue in both people. You see when pushed so far I will strike back - won't take it lying down. Does that make me an abuser too? Because that is the other thing he throws at me....the times that I have lost it and he has even gone so far as to call it domestic abuse!!! I think that this is all part of the EA thing because today I do not know my head from my arse. He came at me with his fist and then stopped at my face and laughed. Feel in a daze with it all. I think he will be going soon and the more he realises that I have called it over the angrier he is becoming. I hate this. Feel sick :(

Montessori do you know i think that is the most common question that people post when they first arrive on this thread. yes it is normal to get angry when someone is abusing you. and trying to up the frustrating conflict techniques until you lose it is all par for the course as is accusing you abuse.

i think i can speak for myself and several others here who have been in exactly the same position.

very sorry you find yourself here. but welcome and keep posting.

sorry for such a fleeting post but

woman's hour today
www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/whnews
financial abuse

very glad your suns are shining - metaphorically and actually both Pony and Tis (great to see you too ).

Disney Dad teasing has caused some understandable crossness on DDs part, but at me swiftly followed by blaming me for not seeing her abusive father... again Threw me completely, and went to bed utterly dejected by the whole farsical bollox and croc of shite.

Had more reasonable words today, and again she doesn't wanna talk cos it ends in 'bad' , but it didn't end in bad today, but I did have to tell her that even the police couldn't get an agreement to see her out of him (the a hole). Why does this stuff just go on and on!

Colin your reboot seems to be going a lot better at the mo! . what a stooopid arse question 'What are you doing there?' what?! I guess it kinda sets the scene very well for us as to how that convo was gonna go. You are good at detailing the reasons you are better out of it, keep going with that, there'll be loads more .

Going back toyour point on specialising in supporting others Tis what better specialist and expert, than us that have been through it... that course your've started sounds really good. It sounds a lot like another I've heard of thats highly rated, repatterning, maybe its the same thing different name, but glad its helping so much anyhow. I live by the supposition of fake it til make it! and have helped loads of others through that too. Tis very powerful tool indeed.

xxx

Good work leclerc, it's good that you want to give something back. Thanks for sharing. Self esteem is defo the root of my issues. FW used to put everything down to my self esteem but say 'it's not my fault you have low self esteem, I'm not dealing with it'. OF COURSE IT'S YOUR FAULT, PRICK. Aaargh.

Lovely sunny day here pony, I'm spending time with my family but still struggling to distract myself. As you can gather!!

Hi montessorisam yes I've lost it on a number of occasions. Screamed loudly, shouted, threw a drink, thrown a plate and punched him before. As a result, he says I'm the abusive one and I don't know what to think. He has very concrete examples. I feel awful about them. A friend asked me about what led to one of them.

The plate incidient. He'd been picking at me all day, I was just feeling useless. I cooked us dinner. He said it was rubbish. I put cheese on top. He asked if i was sure I wanted more because I would get fat (I'm tiny). Told I was eating too noisily. Then when i was finished, he said 'you can fucking clear the mess up'. I had the plates in my hand and dropped them on the floor. So of course the story he tells is that last sentence. Not the lead up. But two wrongs don't make a right and I was out of order.

If I am passive and quiet and don't react, I got called passive/aggressive. It was no win.

yay Tis. - in the film she/the character says
Watch your thoughts for they become words.
Watch your words for they become actions.
Watch your actions for they become... habits.
Watch your habits, for they become your character.
And watch your character, for it becomes your destiny!
What we think we become.

• i think it works both ways- if you spend enough time pretending to be strong, being strong becomes a habit and soon you are strong.

and fwiw Tis I think you are wonderful and I think you would be brilliant if you decided to sit at the other side of the table formally.

welcome Sam second Mink's words about angry, I did slap his face a few times, and tried so many different ways of coping, making it stop, reacting, screaming, crying - at the end of the day, it changes nothing and thats abuse.

yy to being in a daze with it all, and head spinning, sick... I do hope its over for you soon.

Thank you for the encouragement fi, I don't feel like I'm doing so well, but maybe I'm selling myself short. I'm still missing him but still keeping on with reflecting which I need to do to an extent. I was sad, but then remembering a lack of freedom to go to Marks and Spencers to buy us dinner warrants justification reigns me right back in.

Nice to see you mink

I remember now, that after I had slapped his face, the next time he yelled in my face he suddenly seemed to remember and stepped back a little, as least now I couldn't feel the spray of his spittal in my gaping mouth! So things did improve, marginally

yy to trying so many different things to make it stop/better/go away. constant outrage and confusion.

woman's hour bit was short but good. at least they were drawing attention to it.

Lots of woman all feeling the same way as me - that is both sad and a relief for me too! Yes, it is like the school bully thing isn't it? Being pushed until you snap. I am dreading his return from work IF he returns and at some point I know that if I do react in any way that is other than calm I may get a real punch.
MINKEMBRA I love that about thinking yourself strong - yes that is what I need to do. And it is bloody hard. 3 kids, a job. But I won't let him crush me!

COLINCATERPILLAR - the picking at me all day thing rings a bell. I remember just after xmas a couple of years ago. Picking at me telling me how crap xmas had been and I had worked really hard - done all the shopping, decorating, present buying and wrapping - and he said how I had ruined xmas. Anyway, long story short, after a few hours of this I got in his car with him screamed "SHUT UP" and kicked off his indicator stick next to the steering wheel. Kids in the back of the car - I look like the nutter who can't control herself. Bad example to kids. Who apologises? Me of course! Yes, guess that is EA :(

Montessorisam I recognize what you're saying about pushing and pushing, it seems to be a common tactic... last weekend I really 'disgraced' myself, I'd spent the whole weekend bending over backwards to accommodate him (we were away) and as we were on our way back I did something wrong it was really inconsequential but resulted in him having programmed the sat nav to home instead of a friend's house and he went so so overboard on the 'you're useless' front that I totally lost it, screamed that I couldn't take it any more... well guess who came off looking like the unstable one?? grrrr.

I just spent an hour on the phone with Women's Aid in tears because, basically, after calling me a useless b*&ch for years because I'm not working, I now have some work to do and he's being so obstructive that I can't get it done (I wasn't allowed to work on the weekend, I'm not allowed to have my laptop out when he's home, and the final straw this morning was when he asked to see my 'TIMESHEETS' because he says I've been working on it for too long... which isn't true... he is NOT MY BOSS and this really upset me, FFS I'm only going to charge for the hours which are actually chargeable as it's been ages since I did any work like this I have to factor in some time to remind myself how to do it... I only have an informal agreement, the guy seems delighted with the images I've sent him (doing a 3D model and some drafting)... and most importantly to me I'm loving doing some work again)

But anyway, the WA woman, bless her, reminded me that WHATEVER I do it isn't going to please him, that he is making it his mission to be obstructive and try to drive me to a reaction as that is the only thing that gives him that feeling that he is totally in control of me. It's important to remember that you are being goaded into a reaction-- I am going to try diversion tactics and calm detachment but OMFG if he asks again to see my TIMESHEETS I am going to seriously die inside...

Thanks all! I keep needing to post other incidents just to filter it all through my mind because I have to work it through.
colin I am also 8 days nc. Have blocked emails, changed mob numbers. Think about him all day long. He dumped me- unceremoniously- after a Hoover manoeuvre just to prove he could snap his fingers I think- do all the good work I did before was undone and worse. Another day without him... It's like giving up smoking I think, I just have to work hour by hour on it and forget about the rest of my life or I'd have to break down in despair.
I have some reading to do to get up to speed with other stories but pony I do remember some of yours- it sounds as if you are out? Phew!!
The compliance from childhood thing- yes, I think it left me just afraid of anger- mine, anyone else's, and just willing to keep peace at any price because I value peace more than anything. But whatever I did with exdp provoked anger one way or another (his) and I got sick of hiring mine, but still could never express it

Thatsntmynamereally - the never doing anything right thing is similar to my story - I work and the wages are never enough and the childcare is also an issue (In his opinion) and when I don't work I should never complain because I have a relaxed easy life (in his opinion....though we do have 3 kids to look after so not sure whether easy and relaxed is right!). Well, I work now at a job I love which is the same job that I quit two years ago when we split up. I am terrified that I will have to give up this time too for fear of not managing it all when he does finally leave but I am determined to try my best at keeping it. Having a job means that you are independent from him, are out of the situation for a few hours and can speak to people that can sympathise and it also means that you can get the hell out of the relationship when you have to!
If he asks to see your timesheets again tell him to f*off! love and peace to you allx

that'snot the time sheet thing really rings bells with me. My FW just loves listening to me on the phone doing work related things. I then get a full on 'constructive criticism' as he tells me everything I did wrong and how to do it better despite the fact that he has zero experience or knowledge in what I do! I feel like screaming your not my boss and infact my boss is more than happy with what I do. But I don't bother because I know it won't make a difference

mont I agree that working makes such a difference in terms of feeling some independance and also having adult relationships at work that he can do nothing about it much as he tries

colin and 2013 you both sound really strong and committed to escaping. I think the stopping smoking analogy is perfect

leclerc lovely to see you again. And I second what others say about you being in a perfect position to support other people. And you give fab advice here. I know what you mean about giving back. Something on my mind is that I think I will run the London marathon to raise money for WA one day when I'm sorted. They do such fantastic stuff and are such a help I also feel like I need to give something back.

Anyone watching The Apprentice. I think this may just be FW school. The men and women are actually giving me the shivers with all their 'noone dare cross me', 'I'm not afraid to cheat or dominate' and 'I'll manipulate people to get what I want' bravado.

ooh apologies thatsnotmyname for basically shortening you to 'bogey ' It didnt read like that in my mind :)

bounty faking it til I make it I think that's called. I'm willing the 'love you, miss you, have been such a shit' hoovering routine to start

2013 as you can tell I'm spending all the live long day thinking about him. I am starting to think I had two choices - be with him and be miserable about his treatment of me or be without him and be miserable about that. Talk about Sophie's Choice. It's awful that it wasn't a choice as well as I have the whole discarded thing to deal With. It's just telling myself the bad dulls that. Hopefully one day I will see the error of my ways and cringe at this! Good luck.

I think we're all faking it a bit. Re-read leclercs post ^^ eventually if we fake it enough then we'll believe it and become it. (hopefully)

BTW it's not Sophie's choice because there's a third choice: come to terms with what he's done to you, allow yourself time to heal and then be happy in yourself.

Holy shit. He really is going. He's just told me that he's got a place to go to. Now I'm scared shitless and panicking. 3 kids, job, on my own. Calm me down folks. It's what I want - not to be unhappy anymore but it's scaring me the idea of doing it alone. Will it be better? worse? HELP!

Evening all.

Colin - that's no Sophie's choice. One option is unrelentingly miserable with no hope of redemption. The other option does have redemption hope. If you are with him, it'll be miserable and that will never, ever be any different. Without him you are currently miserable, but you will start to see some daylight soon, I promise.

that'snotmyname - yep, had the work interrogation too. I work from home, FW would tell me how I was being taken for a ride by my clients, how I should be doing this, that, the other, how I should be charging way more than I was (I was about right for the industry). Then he demanded to see my invoices and how long I was spending on each job, and to have my business account as part of the joint account we were about to open (newly married). I refused, so he refused to open a joint account at all. Cue me paying about 70% of the household bills from my meagre self-employed salary, as 'punishment' (never expressed that way, but surely justified like this in his head).

Montessorisam - I agree, the anger that you shut away down inside yourself while you are being EA can become toxic and bubbles up. I acted like a mad woman sometimes, it was sheer frustration and anger. I was always apologetic afterwards and tried to make sure it didn't happen again. He never did.

2013go - yes, I am out. In fact, next Friday it will be one year exactly. Not sure how I feel about that at all.

And Leclerc, I got a lovely little jump inside when I saw your name. So nice to hear from you, and such a good post. I hope you are starting to believe a little, you are an amazing woman. I struggle with the 'strong' label too, but I have changed it in my head to 'resilient, resourceful and determined'. I can accept those labels a little easier. I also think you would shine being on the other side of the table. It's a positive thought to give yourself, something to aim for. Sending you and your DCs much love.

Montessori - stay calm. Beat him at his own game. He is banking on you getting panicked and maybe even begging him to come back/change his mind. Don't. If nothing else, you need some space and time away from him to think things over properly.