Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I just got 'I am not tidying your house. I've got my own house to tidy'
he was a guest when it came to cleaning/paying bills and a resident when it came to having an opinion/entitlement.

anyway as predicted he has been in touch pretending nothing ever happened asking when the dcs are free sooner than I expected.

so i am trying to turn my sarcasm down from kill to merely maim before replaying. (plus leaving him to stew)

any advice for replyingnot replying. (despite the fact that he told me 'never to contact him again. ever.' not replying would probably be seen as a hostile act by his family- the downside of telling them what he did is he gets to do the same back. so a flat out is not a long term solution)

i was thinking

I will ask the dcs if they are happy to see you again after last time

what guarantee do they have that you are not going to do the same thing to them again?

the very least they should be able to expect is an apology so that they know you are sorry for treating them like they did not matter

realistically the next time he can see them is either tomorrow or Wednesday however won't mention that initially as he will just say see you then and ignore everything else.

min is there anything regular already set up?

I have little or no exp of contact stuff, so will say Keeping Thinking and hopefully some more informed advice will be along...

there is nothing formal. as we were not married there is no contact order (nor can such a thing be arranged AFAIK unless either FW took me to court or we agreed to mediation)

there is a general understanding that he will see them once a week for about 4 hours, if they aren't busy and he isn't working. (and as long as I behave and am grateful for the free childcare he is giving me for my children ).

usually he picks them up from mine and drops them off again.

after last time any contact in future he will be left on the doorstep with the door closed until they are ready.

so I have the option of saying nothing other than a time. and making sure that he has no opportunity to speak to me and that way he has no way of falling out with me.
the parent in me feels that there shoudl be consequences for the way he behaved last time though. even if it is just saying that he won't do it again.

Well, he will reap the consequences himself in the relationship he has with them.

So I would suggest, perhaps, that you merely give him the start time (and finish time, 4 hours later) which is most convenient for you and DC.

i think if i say nothing at all about it i am letting him sweep it under the carpet and pretend it was not wrong which gives him carte Blanche to do it again.

at least if he has to acknowledge it was wrong he might be less likely to do it again

i think if i say nothing at all about it i am letting him sweep it under the carpet and pretend it was not wrong which gives him carte Blanche to do it again.

at least if he has to acknowledge it was wrong he might be less likely to do it again

mink, have you spoken to a solicitor? I am not sure that you need to be married to draw up a Minute of Agreement. Though I am fairly sure the only way to enforce it would be to resort to the courts, and even then, you can't force someone to behave. But I would take legal advice, even a carefully worded sol letter might help?

When is their normal contact? If it is Saturday, say Saturday, not Wed or Thurs. DCs need consistency and if he f*cked around last Saturday he needs to wait till next Sat, otherwise you are teaching them that you jump when he says jump, regardless of how he has behaved.

As to what you say, you need to tackle it head on and say walking off while dcs were crying was unacceptable. Do not get drawn into a discussion, say it was unacceptable and you do not wish a repeat performance for dc sake. Then stick to arrangements only, as per previous email.

When dcs were expecting to see him and leaving them crying, I mean.

I think the first two lines of what you've suggested are fine, mink. Maybe say directly that they were understandably upset after last time, if he didn't see or hasn't been told about their reaction. I'd leave the third line and see what he says first - I just feel it's harder to apologise if you've just been told to, iyswim. But you know him better than I do.

I personally wouldn't go with the I will ask dcs line, as it gives him wiggle room to think, oh, it was not so bad, look, they want to see me again. By all means ask them, but reply to him after you know what they say, iyswim.

that is the thing. they will forgive him whatever. it is what little kids do. so they will reap the consequences in damaged self esteem long before he does.

good point though charlotte.

i do want to make it clear to him tho they get to choose not to see him not the other way round.

the day moves about a bit because of his shifts.

your children deserve a dad they can rely on who loves them and who does not treat them like they don't matter.

if you have an issue with me don't take it out on your children.

I have asked them and they would like to see you again so I will respect their wishes

I will arrange a time once i get a firm guarantee from you that you aren't going to mess them around like that ever again.

they get to choose to see him rather.

he does know they were upset. he could hear them calling him and i told him. but he has not acknowledged it.

I know you are their DM, but that does not mean you have to try to enforce consequences like apologising to DC - how could you? There are already consequences in place like door-step only collection.

Really it's up to him whether he apologises isn't it?

Just my thoughts, and as I said upthread, have no experience with contact issues.

Have had a chat instigated by 5yr old DD tonight. She says sometimes when she wants to think of nice things, all the bad stuff comes into her head and she can't get it out . Like the fact that daddy shouts at her and DS. She feels sad for DS because he's a 'baby' ( actually 3 in 2wks) and upset for herself. She describes it as him going 'mighty mad' and says I only ever get 'medium mad' ( I guess she means for the typical misdemeanours you'd get cross for).
I don't know if I am dealing with it right. I told her that daddy can't always control his temper, but that it was wrong for him to shout at them and that was why we don't all live together anymore. Have also told her that when she is grown up that she shouldn't think that shouting and calling names is something that is normal. She says that sometimes she has lots of fun there with him, but sometimes it's as described above.

match that is tough i have no idea how to deal with that kind of thing either.

definitely reinforce that shouting is wrong though.

'medium mad' how cute is that.

I am really trying to find the right line between telling her enough for her to grow up knowing what 'normal' relationships should be like and treating her as if she is much older.

Fuck I have left DS's name in!!!!

match have you a court order? If not, do dcs need to stay over? Did you ask her how she felt about going? She sounds very conflicted.
Essentially, you are saying daddy cannot control his temper which is why we don't live together anymore, but you still need to go face it.
Did you ask her what she would feel happiest doing about it?

I've reported Match. Nice name though.

Thanks leclerc. I am in a bit of a quandry with her to be honest as I think she would always stay with me, but then I wonder if I am going to get to a stage where she doesn't want to go at all. He is very local and does the school runs when his shifts allow, which she is always fine with.
The selfish side of me thinks that he gets all this time to himself and all I want is just 1 evening and day where I can just be alone if I want. All the time we were together I never had that. But then obviously I hate to think she is being shouted at when I'm not there.

Oh Matchsticks, what a little sweetheart. (And I agree, nice DS name! Was on my list.)

My first thought is that she's reaching out to you, telling you this, taking you into her confidence about something she feels guilty about expressing. I would wonder if she's actually asking for help, but doesn't know how to. She probably doesn't feel able to cope with his shouting, either for herself or for DS (what a lovely caring girl). She's come to you, as her mother, to put everything right. (And oh how I wish it were as simple as just 'putting it right'.)
If that's the case, perhaps she needs to see you doing something concrete to help her, like talking to your health visitor for advice, or helping her with strategies for if Daddy is shouting and it's getting too much for her.

I think I will have to say she doesn't have to go and deal with FW's strop. And ban her from ruining my lie in!