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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

A happy update from TIL

388 replies

TisILeclerc · 18/04/2013 14:29

She and the children are where they need to be now and she is very grateful for all the support and encouragement she has received. I hope very much that she will return here but for now she?s intending to lie a little bit low.

Please just be sensitive to the fact that this is a huge, life changing decision for her and I think she would like it toned down a bit wrt pompoms and congratulations. I hope very much that this will change as the days pass and she becomes accustomed to the incredulous joy of freedom. She is already sounding positive about life where she is right now.

This time they really are ?safe? in the way that everybody hoped previously.

NB I have not used any names in this for a reason. Please be aware of security as she is understandably very worried about him locating her

Thanks
OP posts:
UniqueAndAmazing · 27/04/2013 12:07

Discipline is always tough.
You don't want to feel like you're always telling them off.

Adopt a positive approach, so instead of waiting until they do something wrong and then disciplining them, praise them for good behaviour/actions and also give them guidelines of what you expect.

Now would be an ideal time to do so - you're in a new home, so sit them all round the table and say "let's set some house rules" and have everybody give house rules that they like and can do. So, shoes off at the door, bedtime at xx o'clock, homework to be done by xx o'clock (after snack/before dinner etc), washing up to be done by xx and xx on a rota basis (so maybe you do breakfast, lunch pots and the older one (not sure how old your middle one is) does dinner pots on a friday and saturday, maybe. , the last person to eat/use such-and-such has to write it down on the shopping list. So little things like that means that they know where they stand and what's expected of them.
knowing that it's unlikely that they'll be arbitrarily punished for random stuff means they'll be much more likely to be happy to share in the chores/house rules.

QuintessentialOHara · 27/04/2013 12:23

Good to see you GS Smile

When I had problems with ds1s behaviour, (I have had numerous threads in the past), what is described as Lovebombing seemed to work best, it would sort of "reset" us.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 27/04/2013 13:19

Social services will help you with parenting. Joining a triple p group would be good. And please be honest with them- the past has happened and you and the children need support, and as long as you are open they will provide that. If you hide or minimise things they will wonder what your motivation is, are you hoping to reconcile, are you still under his control etc.

buildingmycorestrength · 27/04/2013 13:20

Thanks so much Unique Blush

I also tried love bombing and it helped loads! Hard with three kids on your own.

GS, I feel so much for you. You have so much to process and it will take time.

northlight · 27/04/2013 13:24

unique is spot on. Build a set of rules and routines together. Make sure your DCs get to suggest some reasonable rules for you.

You're the adult and you're in charge but his doesn't mean you can't offer choices. Just make sure that all of the choices are acceptable to you and doable.

Try simple things like each child deciding on the dinner menu one night a week or taking turns, you included, choosing what you are going to do at the weekend.

Praise every action or behaviour that you want to reinforce and try to ignore those you don't.

Have the kind of fun you had when you all dressed up for dinner. Draw lots for little manageable chores that have to be completed before you all go out or sit down for a snack.

Turn yourselves into Team Getting Strong. Choose a fun song to be your family anthem or make one up to the tune of a nursery rhyme or similar.

Good luck with it all.

delilahlilah · 27/04/2013 13:26

Hi GS, v glad to hear you have done so well. The discipline thing you were asking about - I would suggest that you go down the positive reinforcement route, until you have help / advice to sort out everything else. Make sure that good behaviour is always rewarded - a reward can be a hug, a sweet, a star chart to earn things, whatever suits. Just make sure anything good they do is recognised. That way DC1 will recognise that different behaviour does evoke a different response. They are finding their feet too, and they will settle very soon.

UniqueAndAmazing · 27/04/2013 13:28

Yes, I like the idae of a fun song to be a family anthem! Grin

we do something very similar (we have a nappy changing song and a leaving the house song)

getthegirladrink · 27/04/2013 13:34

GS, so lovely to see you back. Well done, and (gentle) hugs Smile

GettingStrong · 27/04/2013 13:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tingalingle · 27/04/2013 13:53

Hye GS,
I do recognise the feeling of not knowing quite how to discipline when it's all your decision.

DS had a rough (very rough!) start to primary school, and at one of my first meetings with his terrifying headteacher she asked me, 'What is your family disciplinary policy?' I rather think I just blurted, 'I didn't realise we had to have a policy!'

I'd say the fewer rules the better, in some ways, and all of them should be aimed at making joint family life or future life better: so
no hitting,
no bullying,
medium levels of bad language (can you tell I have teenagers?),
people and pets to be fed,
fair play over cleaning things up,
decent attempt to be made at homework once they're settled back into school.

I've found that withdrawing privileges was a bit of a disaster chez Tingles. I could never remember who was due a computer ban or a pocket money fine. Possibly mine are all little horrors (suspect this sometimes of the middle one, though he does remember to thank me for lifts to places) but I like them all.

Tingalingle · 27/04/2013 13:57

You know, your DC1 sounds very robust and mentally healthy to me. The fact that s/he recognises that things weren't fair is great. Most young children would have accepted that they were just somehow bafflingly 'wrong' rather than that the punishments were what was wrong.

I'm waffling.

Have you tried the obvious? Actually tell DC1 that they are great and you like them, even if they have the odd strop? (Beware of just telling a child they are fab, because of that little honest voice inside a bright child that will come back with 'She only thinks that because she doesn't know what I've done...')

blackcurrants · 27/04/2013 13:58

GS I'm not very wiser in these matters as my oldest is nearly three, so haven't don't as much parenting as many here, but what you said about DC1's belief that they are somehow 'not good' is both sad and a brilliant reminder, if you ever needed one, that its great you got your children away from him.

Tingalingle · 27/04/2013 13:59

DH was of the opinion that DD should be taught not to answer back because she's the most biddable of the three and the only one he had any chance of shutting up till I asked him if he really wanted a teenage girl who never said 'no' to a man in her life. Then he got the point.

Tingalingle · 27/04/2013 14:02

GS (sorry, I'm flooding the thread!) a child's opinion of themselves can change and heal.

In our case it was a change of school that caused a change of self-image: DS used to see himself as a loner, a nuisance and a hothead with no friends. Now he sees himself as a friendly type who just sometimes needs to apologise to his mates for grumpiness (which is much more accurate and realistic). It's very early days yet. Don't worry.

blackcurrants · 27/04/2013 14:15

I Have heard that what your term you're children about themselves they become. So when we had a blip recently, DS 1 becoming jealous and stroppy when DS 2 was born, we praised every inkling of empathy or kindness DS 1 showed, and linked it to him being a kind or living person. "thank you for bringing me the nappy, what a helpful thing to do. Being helpful is so kind. You are going to be such a kind big brother, I can tell'. Or 'thank you for coming to tell me the baby is crying, shall we see what he needs? You are such a kind and loving boy, baby is lucky to have such a good big brother' etc.

We didn't overdo it, and we didn't fake it, bit we linked his positive actions to positive things about DS 1, basically telling him that he lived his baby brother until he decided he agreed with us!
So maybe find something really specific to praise DC1 for, and frame it as 'I noticed you doing X, what a helpful,( kind, funny, sweet, clever, loving, thoughtful, xxx) thing to do. You are such a lovely DC. Thank you/Well done. '

MooncupGoddess · 27/04/2013 14:20

So nice to see you back and doing well, GS.

I don't have children so can't really comment, but just wanted to say that throughout these threads I've always liked the sound of your DC1, he/she clearly thinks for him/herself and has a strong sense of justice.

Hopefully things will get easier when he/she realises that you have proper reasons for your family rules and decisions, which you're happy to explain and discuss, rather than the previous cruel and erratic dictatorship.

UniqueAndAmazing · 27/04/2013 14:26

It is a possibility that DC1 might need counselling, yes, but it is only a small possibility.

If you start to give them an impression (reality!) that life is better now, then they will start to respond to that.
especially if you give them a chance to be part of the family and make decisions with you.

GettingStrong · 27/04/2013 14:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lueji · 27/04/2013 14:58

I agree with everyone about positive parenting.
It's about children having pleasure about doing the right thing.
Not even to get your approval, but because they feel that they are good and worthy.
Say, DS offered to help carry some shopping the other day. I told him he was being a very helpful and generous boy, and gave him a kiss on his head.
If I have a rule that needs enforcement, I should say what the rule is and why it exists. And what the punishment will be. Usually something immediate. When punishing, I remind of the rule and why it exists. At the end I do the same while giving a cuddle, usually.
And I give lots of cuddles and kisses just because.

Remember also that sometimes rules should be flexible and can occasionally be thrown out. :)
And we can apologise to the children too. :)

springyhappychick · 27/04/2013 16:13

There's always one, isn't there? ie one who flags up the dysfunction and can't/won't go along with it. Looks like that one is DC1.

having been the flag in my family, it's a jolly painful place to be. I wish I'd had someone seriously considering how to positively parent me when I was at primary age. You have all the chance in the world to undo what has gone before and to specifically address it.

You've had some great links/tips here and you also have plenty of agency support. I have done endless parenting courses and I do recommend you generally try any and every one that floats your way - some are good and some not so good, but they certainly get you thinking.

lol at 'discipline policy' Grin

northlight · 27/04/2013 18:02

DC1 is very young to be speaking truth to power. Good for him/her.

I can only agree with others who have pointed out that calling unfairness by its name is a healthy sign. Please don't let them think that they are the problem. Make sure you let him/her know that they are right in their assesssment but, together, you are going to make changes.

mathanxiety · 27/04/2013 18:16

GS, good to see you sounding positive here.

WRT discipline -- don't beat yourself up and don't assume that you have somehow failed. Your home wasn't normal and you are in a different position from those mum acquaintances of yours who seemed to have it all down. You and your children were living with a tyrant and that makes a big difference to you and to the children.

[I am going to refer to DC1 as he/his/him just for the sake of not cluttering my post]
Luckily for you, you have an articulate and intelligent DC1 who is able to talk to you, and who trusts you enough to reveal his feelings to you. That is something you can build on.

I suspect since DC1 has been exposed to an adult with zero empathy towards his mum and siblings, and has been treated with no hint of empathy himself by H he will need to have his own natural empathy encouraged. He should be praised for acts of kindness and loving things he does with and for the others and for and with you.

(I do think this child needs counselling as others have suggested. But watch out for the child who doesn't talk as much and who tries to be 'good' and is quiet. The squeaky wheel isn't always the only one who needs oil. The child who absorbed the conditioning best often has issues just as complicated if not moreso than the one who rebelled. Rebellion can be a very positive thing in fact. The habit of submission is often a more difficult problem to overcome as you yourself have seen).

To establish team spirit, each child can have a consistent simple and age appropriate chore that they are responsible for be it keeping one area neat or emptying the waste paper bin or polishing something on a regular basis. When children live with a tyrant their self esteem takes a battering because the family is fragmented and often members are played against one another, and also because never knowing how well they are doing means children's self esteem takes a battering. (You have seen how your own self esteem was beaten down by H's unpredictability and how other values took second place to the need to pander to H this has been the children's experience too).

In order to start building a new dynamic in your family it would be a good idea to establish the concept of a family team with you and your children -- everyone contributing to the good of the team could be a goal, and you will probably be able to talk about this concept in a way DC1 understands. Being 'Team Family' helps the family that now exists with you as captain to draw together even though one member is conspicuously absent.

Team spirit provides a boost to the children's morale and will help them feel secure even though the former boss is now out of the picture. It's especially important for the new team to have team rituals that emphasise togetherness. Mealtimes are the obvious occasions when the team can really pull together and then enjoy the fruits of co-operation and everyone's participation can be celebrated for instance, 'Thank you DC1 for a neat table setting and for helping DC3 put the napkins out so patiently' can accomplish a lot if DC1 hears it regularly. 'Thank you DC2 for your help in drying the plates and for reminding me that the bin is full' etc... All children can help a little with meal preparation and with meal suggestions too. You can all sit down and plan meals for the upcoming week. You can decide with them what meal plans are reasonable. They will appreciate having a say it will give them confidence that their voices are heard in the new Team Family.

As the children become competent at tasks, you can praise them, smile, and thus in a quiet way remind them that they are accountable to you. Catching them being good is an excellent way to keep them reminded that they answer to you -- giving positive as well as negative feedback really helps them establish how they are doing in a healthy way.

As they develop competence their self esteem can rise up from the toilet. At the same time, you are the captain and you can give them a pep talk about teamwork when they predictably fall short of what you would like, get lazy about things, don't feel like helping out. Maybe each team member could have one opt out day and when that is cashed in they need to keep up their good work for the rest of the week...

Another team ritual that can be nice and positive is a family board game or movie night when you all gather together (with laundry all done together and lunches made for school by everyone). Family fun is important and the children will cherish fun times together. It will help bind you all into a unit and give them something to look forward to when they have been co-operative and kind to each other.

Above all, try to be consistent. If you are having a bad day and snap at them or get irritated, apologise and tell them you will try harder. They need to see a good example of an adult with boundaries who realises when she has transgressed and tries to make amends, is willing to talk about her own feelings.

Banish your guilt. The DCs will not benefit from that. If there are issues they have with you relating to former family life, listen and accept what they say and apologise, promise to do better. Tell them you are grateful they have told you about their feelings. Don't cry about it in front of them or put your pain on their backs. You need to find another adult (counsellor, etc) to help you with that.

I also recommend "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk''.

mathanxiety · 27/04/2013 18:20

Sorry, that was very long..