support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 20

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

My dcat has developed this very endearing routine - I sit between the dcs' rooms on a little chair on the landing to tell a story each night - Dcat now comes up at bed time and settles down to listen! Tonight he grabbed my chair in fact before I could sit down and when the kids exclaimed over him, he looked up and winked! So now there are two chairs on the (very small) landing (Cue me falling down the stairs as a result!)

Night night mink xx

More court papers arrived today for both of us - what I find hard is that fw is genuinely gutted. He's a manipulative bully, no doubt about it, but because it's so obvious that he can't see that, me being a normal person who's lived with him for so many years, I feel compassion and although it doesn't weaken my resolve, I hate hurting someone, even though it needs to be done IYSWIM?

mink mine was mostly loud and shouty too, my stomach clenches up whenever I hear him raise his voice

:o pony I so wish I could see him through your eyes! I have of course been posting only details I'm worried about... but I do wonder a little if you're right.

Charlotte - it's so easy when it's someone else's FW, and not your own! I know your situation isn't cut and dried. I just want you to have a chance to see if he's up to scratch. I hope upon hope he is, but am reserving judgement!

Breathe - that's it, isn't it - you are a normal person, with a normal response to seeing someone else upset. What was his response to you being upset by things he's done to you, again? Hmmm, exactly. I think he can see it, he just refuses to acknowledge it. He's genuinely gutted because he's losing you - losing control over you, not losing you as the wonderful person you are. His massive loss, frankly. (And, again, it's easy to say all this to someone else about their life and their FW, but I know it's hard when it's your life and real emotions and real people are involved.)

Right, that's me for Wednesday night, knackered as usual and praying for a peaceful night as usual. If anyone can magically divine why my 17-month-old is suddenly waking 4/5/6/1million times per night, that would be gratefully appreciate, ta.

Spot on pony as always!

Good luck for tonight with your little poppet

Mine (plus dcat) are snoozing away, but part of me misses the baby wakeful years - madness I know coz at the time I longed for a night free of wakefulness

yy to loud and shouty. stomach clenching, but never sure of potential for violence as a lot of signs, smashing things, hitting walls, etc.

good/bad on the court papers Fly wonderful making spot for dcat! Same thing here happens with one dcat, she just knows when settle down time is and comes and curls up on my lap. The other comes up when I settle into bed, like now, and curls up in front of k'board (so I can't type!). to falling down stairs!... I thought I was reading a FW story to begin with (although that wouldn't have been funny atall).

for FP leader news.

his putting on you his 'rose coloured spectacles' which colours everything Charlotte

I did big x-post before! and just came back refreshed screen and saw ton of other post arrived.

Welcome to new comers. Do keep lurking, posting when comfortable.

owning up to leonardo and russell crowe FFs... FWs? I think i;ve heard pretty bad things bout RC?

ooo.. yum

yy to shouting and stomach clenching too. nsdh raise his voice all the time and I have an automatic physical reaction. It also reminds me of being a child and listening to my df shouting. I used to have a physical response to that too.

bounty thank you. I am at the i know i need to go but that final step just seems so impossible.

I am in counselling at the moment snd finding it helpful. Particularly the way she is trying to get me to look at incidents subjectively. I describe an incident, she asks me to talk through the incident as if it was happening to my mum and dad. Soimagining my dad doing the things fw does to me is really hard and several times i stop and say my dad just wouldnt do that :(.

Counsellor is also trying to pick apart why my tolerance level is set so high with regards to his behaviour. I only seem to know its wrong if someone else is there and see their reaction. My tolerance is much lower when it comes to the kids.

I guess i want to know if i am in an abusive relationship. I honestly dont know. It would take me all year to list the things he has done. And some of them sound stupid and petty but they have still made me feel like shit :(.

Morning Frog & Winnie

weird how our tolerances are different for ourselves/children. Strength for the final step, when you are ready.

sad bout your reaction Winne.... sounds like you are moving on, (used to).

breathe the way FW reacted to me ending it did make it obvious to me that it was about losing control. But equally, as you are a nice, reasonable person, you don't want to hurt someone, you want to work it out. But you have tried everything you can think of, I am sure. I had.

frog it is the cumulative effect of the little things and how the little thing make you feel. For me, it was far more obvious when he started on dc but it was happening to me as well, I just thought it was skmething I was doing, something I could sort or we could sort, whereas it was clear dd was doing nothing wrong. The other point is it doesn't have to be abusive to make you miserable. But this is a good place to work it out one way or the other.

Interesting point about your dad. I could see my mum and FW using similar strategies.

Sorry should add that my family was highly dysfunctional whereas your parents sound normal.

I know faiiry it is. Things that i dont even notice now, usually comments that in some way imply im not good enough, my friends and family still pick up on. Its not until i see their uncomfortable reaction do i think oh thats not right.

butterfly that describes me to a T. I see it with the kids, just not me. I am so used to it. I want a way out that causes the least upset for all round inclufing him. I just havent worked out how yet. I would love to say you are a misersble bastard i cant live with it i want a divorce. But those words just wont come out :(. i keep my shawshank thought in my head. Ive got a long tunnel of shit to crawl through before im free.

it seems very common that its the DC that galvanise us into action, whereas we dont notice it for ourselves. thank goodness they do, but its sad for us that we normalise it for ourselves.

frog yy about family noticing.
He will make up stories about my untidiness, etc, and tell his family (who have no reason to disbelieve him) but sometimes he will forget and say the same to my family. Since they've visited all the places I've lived over the years, they then challenge him.
It's interesting to watch but I do feel a bit like an observer when it happens. It's almost a shock to see that other people can validate my view of the world. Although obviously I shouldn't need their validation.

I think the reason you notice it more with the dcs is- if it happens to you you can say to yourself i am ignoring that or i am going to defend myself against that by replying or leaving the room whatever. you are not totally powerless. but when it happens to the kids you cannot choose how they deal with it. so you cannot ignore it as easily IYSWIm

it is almost as if what is going on in your own head when they are nasty to you drowns out the Signal but the presence of someone else and their reaction amplifies the signal and makes it get through your minimiser defences.

My ex was master of cornering though do it was almost impossible not to react. If he did not get a reaction he would just keep going until he did. e.g. if i stayed calm and said keep your voice down let's discuss this he would loudly deny raising his voice. Then start raking the past. when i am trying to stay calm but losing patience i shut my eyes when i am speaking. they way you might when you have already told a child the same thing five times. he would immediately say your eyes are shut. that means you are lying. on and on and on. Talking over you, interrupting, repeating the same question fifty times like a rationally challenged Jeremy paxman. and the second i raised my voice above a whisper i would be accused of shouting and using him as a verbal punchbag and all of this from.him was peppered liberally with verbal abuse.

Sorry just reminding myself why i decided to call it a day and of what i answer going back to.

Morning all and welcome to Frog and winnie.

Feel like I'm at a bit of a crucial point. He's making noises about 'you can have me again next week if you play your cards right' . Those cards being my credit cards as pay day is on the horizon, obviously. He has texted a list of demands of material items which will secure his affections. I have declined. (Hope this is making you ponygirl)

Apparently that was my last chance . Ok then.

I hope I can stay strong. What he is offering is obviously proposterous but I am admitting my FW addiction. But he is being particularly demanding and horrible, so hopefully I will manage.

Good grief, Colin seriously? Buy a boyfriend? Ignore.

Re the cornering, mink, I was thinking about how it worked earlier and this was one strategy, physically blocking me into a corner or room, when he wanted something. Then when I tried to move away, accusing me of never standing still and listening/being affectionate if the cornering was for physical intimacy or whatever.

Colin stay strong. look at it this way if he did come back, can you imagine him staying for good and you being happy or do you picture ending up back where you are right now?
It's like ripping off a plaster. get it over with. decide now what you are going to spend your pay on if you were not paying a cocklodger. you could get something nice/useful. something for you!
And you are doing well. first step to getting over your addiction is admitting it.

He is comic though. i would be tempted to reply - thank you for your most generous offer to spend my wages in return for your limited, shallow and temporary affections. Whilst this does seem like an offer to good to refuse i am afraid i must pass. i wish you every success in your future career as a cocklodger and i would be delighted to give you a reference outlining your many skills (manipulation and abuse) and qualities (fwittery total lack of self awareness or a sense of shame and extreme entitlement) that make you ideal for this role.

R4 right now- financial abuse. they are appealing for people who want to tell them their experiences. woman's hour.

butterfly mine was more asking you a question to which there is no correct answer. over and over.

eventually i started using the same tactics-talking over and repeating myself- back to him just to see if he would realise how maddening it is. two wrongs do not make a right

now i don't know if i have permanently altered the way i deal with conflict. to an automatically hostile response.

mink that made me chuckle.

No I can't imagine him staying for good - this is a big source of conflict as he gets cross at my lack of belief, yet he often breaks up with me as part of the push you/pull you merry go round he has me on. So of course I'm not 'secure'. Then again, he never really does bugger off. I'm scared of him staying, I'm scared of him going.

I can't imagine him staying and being happy. The relationship is too dysfunctional.

I don't tend to look ahead at the moment. I've been depressed (wonder why....) so long term is unimaginable. I just kind of live in this suspended present time frame waiting for him to leave.

I'm planning my salary spends at the moment. I'm going to start chipping away at my debt although buy a couple of small treats. Then I'm going to make sure to draw out a small sum of money out each day and cards and my card reader will get left at home so that I can't be manipulated like I have been. Sad I'm even thinking of these tactics.

I don't think it is sad exactly, Colin - although why you need to do it in the first place may be. It is you taking control - of yourself :) and this is what will enable you to resist Mr CL

Pre CL do you know what CL meant to me? Christian Louboutin. To think of the number of shoes I could have had without this chancer!!! Funnily enough I always managed to resist designer shoes which do not fit my boat feet

Yes control over myself feels better way to think of it.