Previously uninterested father of baby 'wants to talk'

[ArcaneAsylum]

I had a very casual relationship for a few months at the end of last year. He was sleeping with other women and I didn't want a relationship with him, so I ended it. Shortly after I found out I was pregnant. My immediate decision was that I wanted to keep the baby.

I told him this and his initial instinct was to say that he didn't want another child (he already has a daughter) and to accuse me of planning the pregnancy (I didn't). This didn't bother me as I didn't really expect full support.

However, he then escalated to barraging me with text messages trying to emotionally blackmail me into having an abortion with all sorts of rubbish. I refused to give into the pressure.

He then threatened to move away and change his name so that I could not force him to pay child maintenance. I gave him a chance to reflect and sent him a single message after the 12 week scan asking if he would accept some financial responsibility or if I should involve the CSA. There was no answer.

I accepted that he would not be a part of the baby's life and instead began to sort out my finances and future childcare so that I was prepared for when the baby comes.

He has now messaged me over a month later to ask for a meeting to discuss the baby. I have agreed but do not trust him. In my mind, he would have no contact with the baby and I was fine with that. I have agreed to meet because 1. He IS the father, regardless of whether I like him or not 2. It will be easier to have him willingly support his child than to involve the CSA.

I have been polite to him and answered some questions, but I am confused with some of what he has said. He asked for a picture of the pregnancy, so I sent him a copy of the scan pic. He then texted back to say no, he meant a picture of me pregnant (?!).

I said that I wasn't sure when I would be available to meet as I planned to move next week. He asked where and why, and I told him that I needed more space now that I was having a baby (I currently live in a one bed flat). He wanted to know who with and I told him it would just be me and baby. Next message asks if I have a boyfriend. I ignore this, so he asks again. I ask why it's relevant and he says that it is to him.

Now he is messaging me as if things were like they were back when we dated, asking me what I'm reading, that he has done this... Etc. I am soooo confused as to what on earth he is playing at considering his earlier behaviour. I am also suspicious as to why he has had a change of heart about the baby.

I know this is selfish, but I really was happy at the thought of being a single mum as I meant I wouldn't have to deal with him and would have the baby all to myself. I don't want him in the baby's life (even though he has a right to be involved) as he is a terrible role model- a serial womaniser who casually uses drugs and who publicly holds some very controversial views, not to mention his earlier behaviour.

I guess my question is (and thank you if you have actually read this far!), what do you think his motivations might be (I cannot work them out) and what should I say when I meet him?

Arcane I don't believe that saying a person should make better choices about who they choose to make a child with is an insult.. it's something quite basic when having unprotected sex with a partner to ensure within reason that the person is capable of what a child needs, your ex-partner is not the best of the bunch I didn't make it up, I gave advice I advised you that all his intentions will be questionable because of his past actions.
I don't think I was rude to point out you were selfish you pointed this out yourself you admit that you want to keep this baby all to yourself without the distraction of the father.
I have not harassed you, verbally abused you or threatened you I disagreed with your behavior so perhaps you should think more carefully before to throw the bullying word out there I believe it's an divisive and emotive word to use.
You have made assumptions about my life and my circumstances based on a few comments on the web same as I have and using even less information...are you bullying me?

You called me selfish and self absorbed. These are insults. I could judge you based on comments you have made on these public forums. A brief look at an overview of your posts on other threads gives me personal information about you. You are, by your own admission, three stone overweight. Should I comment on your diet and exercise regime? Your husband cheated on you and you took him back. You have a difficult relationship with your mother who had you when she was a teenager. At your wedding you asked people to give you money instead of gifts, which you used to pay for your wedding. By your own code of social conduct, I should be able to comment on these posts because you put them on a public forum. I wouldn't because I don't know you personally and I have no right to comment on your life. Can we please let this drop now?

You were driven to that ArcaneAssylum

Luckily life isn't like a forum. People will know you and judge you insofar as they judge a friend (which is hopefully not much) on a more personal humane way, with empathy. People seem to lose all empathy on line I think. 95% of people will be happy for you, the vast majority of people won't think that your child needs pity! They will see you working and raising a child on your own and will know that they struggle to do it with help. Please don't feel the weight of online trial in your pregnancy. I have at times allowed myself to believe that everybody in real life is judging me, based only on the comments from judgemental strangers online. It's an interesting in dichotomy alright the fact that in your real life, I can almost guarantee you that your friends and family will just support you and admire you and be excited about the new life you're bringing to the family, and to your circle of friends. ONLY on line will you feel hung drawn and quartered for going it alone.

I agree with SGB's post.

As for the MAP, it is a big deal. How dare women condone men's sloppiness with condoms on the grounds that a woman ought to pop an MAP ?

Well that's creepy never realize how much personal stuff you say about yourself..

I said you sound selfish and self absorbed.. I only took my opinion based on the information you provided.

You said yourself you were selfish ??? and in the same way you just concluded I was unhappy that's why I come on to threads and insult people...

None of what you have said about me are lies comment away if you wish I'm sure other people did...but would it be appropriate to comment on them now?..is it appropriate to search a poster in the way you have? maybe I drove you to it ...

You just spent time checking all the threads I have commented on about personal things so you can use them as what?? proof that I'm fat, I have a mother who gets on my nerves a husband who cheated and I used my monetary gifts from my wedding to pay for the food? you don't think that's strange?

As I said it's a public forum..and you just showed how public it can be...people can and will comment you can revisit all those old threads and give me a good bashing if that will make you feel better
I do however take on board the comment made by what that perhaps my comment was twisting the knife...

No, frankly, it doesn't make me feel better. I have worked so hard to get out of the habit of thinking the terrible thoughts I'm inclined towards when I feel low. Did your comments bring all that back to me? Yes. I tried not to let it get to me when people on here criticised me for all manner of things. You weren't the only one, but you are the last straw. You're probably quite happy to get on with your day and think no more of me but your words have had an effect on me since I read them. Do I think I'm a worthless human being that is better off dead? Yes. Thank you for reminding me of that. I've truly had enough. It's obvious that mumsnet isn't for me, so feel free to post whatever you like about me. I won't be back.

oh mumcentreplus ! maybe sorry is the word you're searching for??

ArcaneAssylum made the point that you too have left yourself wide open for criticism and judgement. You have provided the ammunition and she did not use it. You can joke about redressing the balance, snidely suggest the op might 'feel better' if she let rip on your ass. But fact is, she rose above that! She isn't the one who posted critical judgements on the thread of a poster looking for support and advice.

Arcane, are you OK?

Life doesn't always pan out as we expect it to does it. You might make babies with the most perfect person, then it all goes wrong.

(((((((((((soft hugs))))))))))) Arcane.
You will make a great Mum

Well ignoring whats been said in the last few pages!

I had ds1 whilst in a loving relationship of sorts (we were very young) after we split he stayed in ds1s life consistently until he was around 10. Since then he's been in and out, which at times has been quite painful for ds. He has managed to pay 2 years maintenance out of 13.

Tbh if you can afford not to take maintenance I wouldn't. He might decide that if he's paying he wants access, if you leave it he may not bother contacting you again.

Good look with the rest of your pg, I'm sure you will do just fine as a single parent! Children grow up fine without a father when they have other loving supportive family members. They can also grow up well adjusted and fine even with an arse of a father who comes on and out of their life, ds1 has! He's 18 now and even though he doesn't think much of his dad he does have a very good relationship with his gps and aunts/uncles etc

Xpost

Don't leave mn due to a few posters, you will find lots of fantastic support on here x

I'm truly sorry I didn't want to make you feel that way ..I was thought less and didn't think about the impact my words would have on you, I got caught up in the exchange please accept my apology and heart-felt regret for making you feel the way you do.
MN is a good place please don't leave, there are lovely ladies here who will give you support and good sound advice.
I wont come back on your thread again once again I'm sorry x

Well OP, I have just spent ages reading your thread. I was totally on your side, felt you were reasonable and mature and ready for motherhood. Contraception is irrelevant here and it is totally your decision whether to continue with the pregnancy and totally your decision to expect the father to contribute.
However, I think you have been very unreasonable with your response to MCP. She was merely echoing what you had stated yourself re being selfish (which you have a right to be here). You have received excellent advice and support here. Don't spoil it by being petulant and trying to dictate what posters are allowed to point out. And please don't trawl other threads and produce a 'collage' of what another poster has divulged about themselves on other, unrelated threads. That is really bad form.

Don't leave MN. If you are about to become a mother you will find it hugely supportive. But please don't strop at someone posting a relatively inoffensive post even if it isn't what you want to hear and don't refer to their other posts. It really, really isn't nice. Good luck with the rest if your pregnancy and with motherhood in general. I'm sure you'll be fine!

1. Look at the threads on Relationships mum - hundreds of people on here planned/married/spent years with men who essentially have run away when the woman falls pg. You cannot say 'thinking more carefully' would have helped all of them too, surely?
2. Everyone who says don't take CA in case he turns up - my point is that he can turn up REGARDLESS. You may as well get a nest egg from him.

Hope you are still reading. Many more posters on here are offering you support than being judgy and rude :) x

firstly, I hate it when people get hurt on an online forum. relationships is almost as bad as AIBU. I mean that to both OP and Mumscentre!

I agree with whoever said that if you ask for CSA, you have to be open to allowing contract. so think very hard if you think he would be good dad , or not? Look, if in doubt, do nowt I say? you dont have to decide today, or tomorrow

what about his family, sisters etc? Think about that too

and PLEASE dont feel bad, I personally admire you for going it alone. Its very brave. wishing you every luck and a bouncing baby!

Contact from the father is in no way linked to CSA.
He is allowed contact by law regardless of whether he is paying or has ever paid for his child.

OP - re above - if he does seem to want contact, which as I say I doubt (men tend to prefer to run away and hide as I said before) and you think it is an issue then Contact Centres can be used until you can get him to Court to prove his drugs etc make him unfit to see them unattended. As said previously. I doubt he will hang on for that long though.
Hope you are still reading. I had terrible hormones in pg, hope you are OK & we won't shout/bite or anything if you come back on, promise! x

I didn't mean to suggest that avoiding going for maintenance was a way of keeping the chap away.

All I meant was that pursuing financial support is likely, with some men, to make them want their 'money's worth' (sorry - horrible) or they will use it to continue their abuse or control attempts - while if you don't ask them for money they may be more motivated to stay away, or less motivated to try and be involved with your child, and by default, with you.

Obviously this is just applicable in some cases and only a suggestion.

Arcane I hope you're okay.

I know I promised that I wouldn't be back but I felt I needed to to put my mind to rest, not to mention not wanting other posters to worry about me.

Mumcentreplus, thank you for your apology. I am sorry if I caused you any offence. Like I said, you weren't the only person who made me feel bad and it wasn't fair of me to unleash on you.

Since I posted on this website five days ago to ask for advice, I have been criticised for the following things:

1. Not using any contraception
2. Not using the morning after pill
3. Not having an abortion
4. Having sex with someone who wasn't fit to be a father
5. Wanting to keep my child away from a situation where I couldn't guarantee their safety
6. Being honest about my feelings when I was upset.

The whole point I'm making is that these things could not be changed. They are my choices and I have a right to make them. In hindsight, of course we would change things we have done in the past. If only we could turn back time, we wouldn't make any mistakes would we?

The father of my baby appeared to be a loving father to his daughter (he is), an intelligent man (he can be) and a friend (he was as far as it suited him). I truthfully didn't expect him to be overjoyed that I was pregnant, but I certainly did not expect the barrage of vile messages I received from him. Do I regret having unprotected sex with him? Of course I do, it's not something I'm proud of and isn't something I would advise anyone to do. Do I regret deciding to keep my baby? Not one bit. My baby is very much wanted, very much loved and will know that every day of his or her life.

I have received some great advice on here, it's true, but for me it is tarnished with the ill-conceived and thoughtless responses of others. The Mumsnet rule appears to be that as you are giving away personal information, you have every right to expect to be criticised and to have your life and choices commented on.

For me, it is the equivalent of a child's first day at school. That child dares to say that they are worried about something. They are among a group of strangers but look to them for advice. Some are great and offer their support, wanting to help their peer by sharing their own experiences and wisdom. Others, even if only a minority, start to heckle the child, questioning their past actions, blaming them for their problem, insulting them as they see fit. What would you as a parent do in this situation? You go immediately to a figure of authority in the school and demand that these children be punished, that they are made to realise the error of their ways and that any further attempt to repeat their behaviour will be shut down. The word bullying is used because the child didn't provoke these other children, he just asked them for help. The difference between me and that child? I'm an adult. It doesn't mean that I don't have feelings.

I don't know any good parent that would be happy with an unprovoked verbal attack on their child. Likewise, I cannot imagine that if mumsnet was a social group where people met in real life that they would be as harsh or judgemental as they are on the Internet. Some people on this site use the cloak of anonymity to their advantage to say things they wouldn't dare to in real life. It doesn't mean that people don't think these things- I'm guilty of judging others on their behaviour when in reality I don't know much about them- but a code of social conduct stops us from saying these things out loud because we know it would be hurtful. The internet seems to remove this social barrier.

I think it is a shame that I can't see myself using mumsnet again because I think it's a terrific idea to connect people who may not be able to meet in real life otherwise. However, I have tried to ignore it when people have written hurtful things. It continued until I could feel myself getting truly upset by it. I tried to explain myself, thinking that if they understood more about my situation they might be more considerate. That didn't work so I used humour to deflect. Still it didn't stop, so I tried asking outright for a poster to think carefully about the consequences of their words. No effect, it just spurred them on. I tried demonstrating that it is very easy to obtain information about a person based on their posts and that it could be just as easy to turn the tables on them and hurt them thoughtlessly. This received further criticism. My last attempt to stop any more nastiness was to say that I was hurting from what they said. They immediately apologised. It shouldn't have got this far to show that words do have consequences.

I agree, it is bad form to look through a person's posts to find their weaknesses. Is it any different to reading a person's thread though? The result is the same: the reader gains information about that person. They form an opinion about that person's behaviour or life based on the sparse information they are given. They then have a choice whether to share that opinion, even if it will only serve to hurt the recipient and make them feel bad about things they cannot necessarily change.

Yes, I am sensitive. I do take offence if I think I am being criticised in a way that is not constructive. I have a right to be. It is my nature and I cannot change it, I can only try to change my reactions. So after all that, Mumsnet really isn't the place for me: I can't guarantee that I'll be able to read criticism and not be hurt by it. As much as I am pleased by all the sound, mature advice I have received, the risk of getting hurt is not one I wish to take.

sorry you feel like this OP but a really good post. I have encountered some of the harsher side of MN, from really judgemental people, who dont like it if you think differently to them, or do something that they wouldnt do. People seem to forget that there are real feelings involved and that everybody is made up differently and deals with things differently.
Just remember that everybody has their own problems.

Please stay, but maybe shift to pregnancy or lone parents where you wont be judged so much.

I know this is probably no comfort, but I've rarely read a thread on Relationships that has made me angrier, in terms of unprovoked nastiness aimed at the original poster. I'm so sorry you had to deal with the narrow minded, judgemental, bloody RUDE postings of some people here. Again, all I can say is that I don't often see this sort of behaviour in the Relationships thread. It's upsetting, because people here want support. And I don't think you've done anything deserving of nastiness at all. I've seen people having affairs get more understanding than you did - I think SGB is right; women having unconventional arrangements and daring to be okay with that threaten some women (perhaps unhappy in their own very conventional set-ups? Who knows) and they attack on that basis.

For the record, my own marriage is very conventional and very happy, and our son was born within it. So I'm not defensive or trying to justify my own choices when I say that all kinds of family set-ups work as long as the child is loved, secure, well-cared for, and not exposed to acrimony and anger.

Arcane you will be fine and so will your baby - I know you know that, but it's bloody obvious to me, too. And I hope you haven't been too hurt by what I can only agree was an episode of bullying here. I've noticed before that bullying always seems to happen when people post nasty, judgemental statements about a poster's life choices, then fall back on, "but it's only advice! That's what you came for." Bullshit. Nobody comes online, asking for help and support, because they want to be insulted and sniped at. It's horrible.

Oh, and according to the Family Planning Association, half of all pregnancies are unplanned. So the sniffy judgementalists are perhaps also in many cases big fat fucking hypocrites.

Have you name changed OP?

I think a lot of people use mumsnet as a place to get support by proxy. There are so many different threads and some of them are bound to be similar to what you are going through, and the advice offered relevant. So you can stay, recieve support (albeit not tailored perfectly to your situation) and not risk attack. You will never be able to guarentee who is answering you and judgy people feel emboldened by anonymity.

If you have been so hurt by the comments on this thread then I agree it would probably be best not to start your own threads. People on here can not know what your reaction will be and are not responsible for your feeling suicidal.