Previously uninterested father of baby 'wants to talk'

[ArcaneAsylum]

I had a very casual relationship for a few months at the end of last year. He was sleeping with other women and I didn't want a relationship with him, so I ended it. Shortly after I found out I was pregnant. My immediate decision was that I wanted to keep the baby.

I told him this and his initial instinct was to say that he didn't want another child (he already has a daughter) and to accuse me of planning the pregnancy (I didn't). This didn't bother me as I didn't really expect full support.

However, he then escalated to barraging me with text messages trying to emotionally blackmail me into having an abortion with all sorts of rubbish. I refused to give into the pressure.

He then threatened to move away and change his name so that I could not force him to pay child maintenance. I gave him a chance to reflect and sent him a single message after the 12 week scan asking if he would accept some financial responsibility or if I should involve the CSA. There was no answer.

I accepted that he would not be a part of the baby's life and instead began to sort out my finances and future childcare so that I was prepared for when the baby comes.

He has now messaged me over a month later to ask for a meeting to discuss the baby. I have agreed but do not trust him. In my mind, he would have no contact with the baby and I was fine with that. I have agreed to meet because 1. He IS the father, regardless of whether I like him or not 2. It will be easier to have him willingly support his child than to involve the CSA.

I have been polite to him and answered some questions, but I am confused with some of what he has said. He asked for a picture of the pregnancy, so I sent him a copy of the scan pic. He then texted back to say no, he meant a picture of me pregnant (?!).

I said that I wasn't sure when I would be available to meet as I planned to move next week. He asked where and why, and I told him that I needed more space now that I was having a baby (I currently live in a one bed flat). He wanted to know who with and I told him it would just be me and baby. Next message asks if I have a boyfriend. I ignore this, so he asks again. I ask why it's relevant and he says that it is to him.

Now he is messaging me as if things were like they were back when we dated, asking me what I'm reading, that he has done this... Etc. I am soooo confused as to what on earth he is playing at considering his earlier behaviour. I am also suspicious as to why he has had a change of heart about the baby.

I know this is selfish, but I really was happy at the thought of being a single mum as I meant I wouldn't have to deal with him and would have the baby all to myself. I don't want him in the baby's life (even though he has a right to be involved) as he is a terrible role model- a serial womaniser who casually uses drugs and who publicly holds some very controversial views, not to mention his earlier behaviour.

I guess my question is (and thank you if you have actually read this far!), what do you think his motivations might be (I cannot work them out) and what should I say when I meet him?

FWIW I think the notion that women have the 'option' to abort equates as 'the upper hand' rather overlooks the reality of abortion, which is at best, quite unpleasant. I'm more inclined to the view that if you just put a condom on, you've done your 'bit', you have the upper hand, and that if you decide to have nothing to do with an unplanned pregnancy, people will not write you off as extreme, unnatural or desparate (think of how we view mothers that walk out on their children), you have the upper hand, and that if your whole culture treats your right to unprotected sex with women as part of what makes you essentially you (rather than a slut/ sperm theif/ devious/ stupid person), you have the upper hand, that if sex in your culture is defined in terms which privelge your desire to orgasm through penetrative sex, you have the upper hand. I am sick of having to thank the world for my 'option' to abort, which has so rapidly become my obligation at the risk of my physical and mental health.

Well said sparkly

I honestly think this thread is just so sad, the OP needed advice and support and its been totally hijacked and she's probably left. FFS if you want a debate get your judgmental arses over to AIBU and start your own thread!

agree with forty and hedley.

Basically the facts you're laying down here is - that when a man has sex he is basically choosing to be a parent and it's then up to the woman wether to continue should she become pregnant.
All very well and good in theory but we all know (come on people) a man is not really making that HUGE LIFE CHANGING DECISION - to be a parent - every time he has sex. You are even stating if he uses a condom he is STILL making the decision to become a parent because of the 1% failure rule. Pie in the sky.

It should be a joint decision. But it's not, like you said biology states its not because no man can force a woman to get rid of a baby.

But just because that's the way it is does not make it fair.

I had my DS with my ex, he wanted to start a family and so did I, no resistance to pregnancy whatsoever. His income capacity has always been extremely poor and i knew this when I had a baby with him. We split up and i never claimed maintenance with him because I took responsibility for the fact that I chose to have a child with someone who couldn't realistically afford to pay maintenance if we ever split up.

But obviously I'm weird.

sparkly no one said you or OP or anyone obligated to abort - she wanted baby, she can keep baby. The question I think is the claiming maintenance.

In the op he tried to pressure her into an abortion.

And yes when msn has sex he does so with the knoeledge he may create a child. We all do, men and women and we are equally responsible for that child.

The op may not need the money at the moment but none of us know how the future will pan out so doing as she has suggested and saving child maintenance for the child is very sensible.

Everyone is talkkmg about whats fair to thr man. Well tough shit its actually about what is fair for the child and that is that they are supported by both their parents. You cannot make amyone be an involved parent if they dont want to be, but you can.make them.step up to their financial responsibilities and that is the right thimg to do for the child.

I understand what you are saying but it doesn't stop me thinking it's unfair. I think a lot of blokes must learn these lessons the hard way. I feel for children in these situations but I am sure OP will do a great job with her baby.

Oh yes these poor men that learn the jard way
ffs its basoc sex education, men arent stupid! Your posts are actually offensive to the majority of men who have a braon and who also have the morals to support their children.

Have brains...

Yes people seem to forget that sex is actually for the SOLE purpose of procreating. It wasn't invented as a fun past time after a few cocktails in a club or entertainment on a par with the latest blockbuster, it's actually SUPPOSED to create a baby.

Saying that the man should not be made responsible for HIS actions and that he should be allowed to have sex just because it feels nice then not have to face up to the possible pregnancy arising is nonsensical and quite frankly misogynistic. Because the woman doesn't get any choice in facing up to it one way or another does she?

Why the actual fuck does she and most importantly her child have to carry full responsibility for an act that's sole purpose is to create life and every time you do it no matter what contraceptive measures you take there is a chance that a pregnancy could result. Disgusting stance IMO.

Men can choose to wear a condom, have the snip or just not have sex with women they don't want to have children with. Simple

If they don't they are fully aware that it may result in pregnancy and they could end up paying maintenance.

The op has already stated they had unprotected sex. I wouldn't feel to sorry for him when he didn't even try to prevent a pregnancy.

none of you are accepting the reality of attitudes toward sex. 'He SHOULD do this, think that, because IT IS like this or that.'

You must live in a bubble where these perfect men exist. Sex is a seriously powerful urge BECAUSE of procreation. Doesn't mean they're thinking 'I'm doing this to procreate' when theyre doing it. Get real.

'none of you are accepting the reality of attitudes toward sex' well, actually we are- we're just objecting to it, on the basis that current attitudes suppose that women are responsible for pregnancy while men are only responsible for responding to a 'powerful urge' and it's not their fault the woman conceived. WTF?

And let's be clear - he's not even being asked to be half responsible. No one will require contact let alone responsibility for providing half of the childcare, ensuring half the necessary medical care, actually organising half the meals, schooling, providing anything approaching half the labour hours that it takes to provide a habitable home, complete with the guidance and input it takes to provide the emotional, psychological, and physical well-being that children need, which the woman in this position is taking responsibility for. He's not going even to be asked to provide half the costs- just make a contribution based on his income. But he's a grown man who was just as culpable/ capable of taking control of the potential outcomes of the act HE CHOSE to engage in. And somehow this is unfair on HIM? Please fuck off.

Ffs 'this powerful urge' men are not animals!!

I dont live in a bubble no, i live in the rl world were many intelligentvmen and women believe they are equally responsible for a child they create.

gottoget would you let a man use the excuse of a man having a "powerful urge" to have sex be his defence for rape? You say he cant control.his urge enough to be able to think about contraception so why would he be able to control it enough to make sure the woman consrnts?

Fgs read back what you have wrutten,you are reducingen to animals who are solely controlled by their sex drive. Then you think they should be able to abducate responsibility for maintenance because its not fair?!!
Ffs!! Read sparklys posts as well gottoget and wake up!!

Mumsnet at it's worst. OP came here for advice and mentioned way back she suffers with depression. Nothing like kicking someone when they're down. The father HAD a choice to use a condom, he didn't, he is legally required to provide for the child he willingly created. End of.

So if this urge to procreate is so overwhelming and impossible to deny, I'm sure women have it too. Why is it the woman's fault but not the man's?

It takes two to make a baby, and both people have a responsibility here. I'm totally appalled by some of the attitudes here.

gottogetup, choosing to have a baby clearly is a joint decision. It's a well known hazard of heterosexual sex! Whoops, my willy just accidentally ended up in a lady's fanjo? Really?

It just so happens that the man's decisions relating to his body happen at an earlier stage - should I have a vasectomy? Should I sleep with somebody? Should I use contraception?

If a man chooses to recklessly abandon his sperm in capacity, then he has to face up to those consequences of doing so.

We teach children the consequences in the actions they choose, so where does that stop for men.

Dont take action to prevent pregnancy face the consequences. Arcane has accepted responsibility of making a child, i tell you, if she had an abortion, people would be screaming at her, that she was stupid and unfair to blame a child for being conceived.

Why do men not get the same treatment?

Its like the idiocy that women tempt men so much that men just have to commit rape, its bullshit.

Militant views aside

NEITHER planned for this scenario. The choices are always going to be hard. It's damage limitation. I see 3 options...

Option 1... OP has baby she wants and employs tax burdened CSA to chase this reluctant father for 20 years. Father, baby & tax payer lose.

Option 2 ... OP has a termination. Living with the guilt all her life. OP loses.

Option 3 ... OP excepts the father & SHE made a grave error in failing to use contraception. She wants baby (so far he's made one selfish decision. She's now made two selfish decisions). Has baby without the need for his financial input.

Option 3 has the least collateral damage.

Hedonism from father & mother. I want, I get. Screw everyone else.

a joint decision is something I consider to be somehting which is CONSIDERED and DISCUSSED by two people.

How can you call it a joint decision. It's a mistake/accident/error made by both man and woman...then the woman gets to consider/take time to make her decision, the man's point of view is not accepted at that point. There is an imbalance.

Errr no the child doesnt lose out if the mother claims child support. The child then has some extra financial security abd they also grow up seeing that men have to provide some support for their children.

And its not selfish to have the baby ffs. The op is facing up to the responsibilty they have both created. Going through pregnancy and childbirth and then raising a child on her own is not a selfish act.

The father walking away is being selfish. He can already opt oit and not be a father in any real sense and now people think its ok to shirk the financial responsibility. but thats ok hey?!! Fgs