Am I being a mug - supporting him when he won't support me?

[Amykins35]

Hi, it's my first time here. Haven't got anyone to discuss this with and would appreciate some perspectives. It's complicated, but will try not to make it too long though you're welcome to ask anything you feel I've missed.
DP and I have been together for 4 years. I had a 2.5 year old when we met, we now have a 14 month old together. We were planning to move in together when I was pregnant as that's when our contracts on respective properties ran out. However, some extra debts from his marriage came to light and we couldn't afford to do so. When his contract ran out he moved into a room in a friends house which he doesn't pay for. He comes to visit for tea on work nights then sleeps at his friends, on nights off (generally 3 per week) he eats and sleeps here. He doesn't pay anything towards rent, food or bills here though he does pay maintenance towards our baby - though that's partly to reduce the CSA payment for his children from his marriage I suspect. All his money (around 40k salary) is going into paying off his debts.
He says that if he's being honest it'll be at least another 1.5/2 years before he can afford to move in with us. He would then like us to have another baby. I said that I wouldn't like a baby if I couldn't stay home with them for at least the first three years (personal preference) and he said that in that case we wouldn't be able to have another one as 'his wages wouldn't be enough to support us.' At the moment I do and pay for everything and think I'm being a mug for effectively supporting him to clear his debts when he isn't willing to support me in the future. Having another child isn't essential for me but it irritates me that I have far less money than 40k p/a yet it's ok for me to support him but he wouldn't do it for me.
Also, it's gone from having a baby together in a loving committed relationship where we were moving in together to him not living with us until our child is potentially almost 3.5 years old. Not to mention the fact this isn't good for either child, it means I do absolutely everything for them. I work from home and am also studying for a degree. Next year is my final year when I'll be doing my dissertation which is obviously a huge piece of work. Another student that's doing it this year said she's been in the library 4 days per week from 10am-11pm since September and still not finished. Youngest DD is difficult at night - she will only sleep if latched on so doing my university work is proving impossible. When I told DP how much work is involved next year he said he'd 'tell his mum to get DVD player fired up to entertain DD.' I just felt like screaming at him that it isn't his mums responsibility to have our DD (never mind the fact she never has, never offered and lives 1.5 hours away) that if he lived with us then he could do what normal partners do and help with the kids at night so I can work then. He's just done some work based exams which he got to study for every night interruption free as I have the kids yet I feel I could well fail the degree which I've invested my savings in and that is essential for my future career and for me to be able to provide for the kids. Not only that but if we reach the day where he moves in then things won't get easier for me as he won't know what to do with the kids/they'll want me.
I'm aware I'm ranting now so I'll stop there! Am I wrong to be feeling utterly pissed off at the situation?

Yes I agree he should've been to court to arrange contact a long time ago. I'm not defending him, I'm just pointing out his/my-up until now- reasoning. I do not want him to just move in while he hasn't sorted his children out, hasn't sorted out a better way of paying his debts and until he is in a position to contribute in every way.

No one thinks he should just 'move in'.

It's like talking to a brick wall

HE'S NEVER GOING TO CHANGE. HE'LL CONTINUE TO SAP YOU DRY UNTIL YOU HAVE NO SELF ESTEEM LEFT. YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS. THIS IS NOT A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP.

ahem

He is in a position to contribute - it would just mean that paying off his debts would take longer. In the meantime you are struggling doing night wakings etc alone. Don't see why you are so willing to take on extra hardship yourself to allow him to pay off debts that are nothing to do with you. He should be contributing both financially and in the sense of being there to support you, his partner, and your daughter. If you're letting him get away with not doing that, why? What are you actually worried will happen? I would bet on it being that if he is required to do these (perfectly normal and reasonable) things, the relationship will fall apart. You are giving him a much better deal than you are giving yourself or your kids. Why is his comfort and happiness so much more important than yours or that of your daughters?

I think the posts are coming from a place of frustration.

It seems like this guy has everyone exactly where he wants them.

There's something really chilling and horrible about a parent who can walk out of his children's lives with barely a shrug of indifference.

I think I'm going to speak to his mum and see if he's been lying about his input/if she will support me in giving him a kick up the backside to sort everything out.

You said his parents think the sun shines out of his backside so I don't think you'll have any joy, to be honest. See if you can find out more about his contributions, by all means, but why don't you want to ask him to step up and get his life sorted yourself? You said he depends on you for everything - so why would't he listen to you if you said this was really important?

Because he's useless and buries his head in the sand. His parents do think he's great which makes me think they don't know the truth. His mum asked last time if he'd heard anything from court about the kids, he told her access would be sorted in the next part of their divorce. Yes, he's not divorced either so you can all tell me I'm an idiot a bit more.

Amy, if all you have taken from all these posts trying to help you see that you are in a rotten situation (because you did ask, remember...) then it really has been a waste of everyone's time, including your own.

You are seeing a married man, had a child by him. He offers you no support, doesn't see his other kids, makes your life harder than it should, leeches off you and tells you lies. Staying with him is going to wreck your career prospects.

What did you think the responses were going to be like ?

if that is all you have taken

Surely alarm bells are ringing here. If he won't take care of his other children, what makes you think he will take care of yours?

And he's a grown man, if running and telling on him to his mummy is what is required, I think you need to ask how old you both really are?

I would rehearse having the following conversation with him:

'X, I've been thinking and it would be best for us as a family if you moved in here asap rather than waiting. I'm going to find it harder and harder to do all the work with the DDs and my university work too. I would like us to share that'.

If at that point he says 'but what about my debts / I thought you wanted me to pay my debts off first?' then:

'Yes, I have thought that up till now but now I can see that that doesn't really allow us to live as a couple and a family. I want you to be a dad who is there everyday for his daughter. I know that mean it will take longer to pay off your debts but I really think it's worthwhile and will be a better life for us and the DDs for the next few years'.

If he says 'yes, but you know I won't be able to pay anything towards the household', do an edited version of the above:

''I know that's how we've thought about it up till now but I think we need to change our priorities so that we can live as a couple and a family. I want you to be a dad who is there everyday for his daughter and contributes to the cost of running the house. I know that mean it will take longer to pay off your debts but I really think it's worthwhile and will be a better life for us and the DDs for the next few years'.

Seriously, try having this conversation and see how he responds. If he is keen to think about paying in and doing his bit (and now, not at some hypothetical future time) then that's better than we might have expected. If he panics and puts you off, then you can see where this is going.

You say he doesn't drive so when he used to see his children, before you became pregnant, how did he manage to see his children then.

There is clearly no financial reason for him not to move in. He could live rent free but still contribute to the household by taking care of his daughter (and your older daughter), helping with the housework, etc. It makes absolutely no logical sense for him to claim that he is saving money by living separately.

However, I would never let him move in under the circumstances. He sounds utterly useless as a father. He already has three (?) children, two (?) of whom he never sees, one of whom he doesn't have a meaningful relationship with. And he isn't even 30 yet. What a prize.

In your shoes, I hope I would end the relationship right now.

I presume Op used to take him to his marital home to see his other children ?

Like you do

Kitchen I completely get your reservations on that score, but I think it would be illuminating for Amy to see how he would respond to the suggestion.

Well I've read most of this thread now, and I must say there is an obvious consensus about this guy - that he's a total waste of space, a cocklodger, a disengaged parent, a selfish manchild, etc.

I'd like to offer another perspective.

Only kidding. This guy is all those things and more.

This comment of OP's, a few pages back, really struck me...

Holidays- I said DD wants to go away for her birthday, can you get time off and would you like to come? He said yes, I booked it there and then as was in travel agents and he hasn't offered a penny nor will he.

There is so much wrong with this... why does he not know, or think about, what DD would like to do for her birthday anyway? Why do you not know if he might be able to get time off? Why do you say would you like to come? You are planning, unilaterally, a holiday for you and your family and you ask your 'partner' almost as an afterthought, because he is so far on the periphery.

It's crazy. This is not a partnership. There is a family here, but he's not part of it. You are a single mum and you need to get on with your life as a single mum, stop having any hopes or expectations of this deadwood.

And the fact that you had noro and he asked if you were 'horny'. Ugh.

Bet you London to a brick she falls pregnant to this waster again, an accident, of course.

He's making excuses. i wouldn't have him anywhere near me until I knew the full extent of his debts, who to, what repayments are, where all his other money is going. You're never going to be a family if he won't tell you that, anyway.

And atm, he's going to cost you your First. Unforgivable.

Get him to call each of the organisations he owes money to and negotiate repayments.

He's a cocklodger
He's married
He's got, how many kids is it now that he can't be arsed with?
He's a freeloader
He's in tons of debt
Your child doesn't like him

But what to do? Yeah, try to keep him! As long as there are enablers, there will be cocklodgers.

Who does he owe his debts too, and how did he get them?

It seems odd that he is so young and has such a large amount of debt that needs to be repaid at such a fast rate.

I suspect everything isn't rosy here.

I wouldn't be suprised if he's got other children that the OP dosn't know about.

OP have you been to his friends house where he says he's staying? Can't help thinking there could be another version of you out there and he's cocklodging between the two of you!

Also have you seen his repayment plan, exactly how much he owes and what he pays to whom and when the date of the final payment will be?

He's so obviously stringing you along, you just can't or don't want to see it.

I'm going to back away from this thread now. The OP clearly doesn't actually want any advice, considering the response is unanimous and she's ignoring it all.

Good luck OP. You're going to need it

His wife decided he could no longer see the kids, but he hasn't fought her on it.

Do you even wonder why?!
a) why she doesn't allow it
b) why he hasn't fought it

Get rid already.
I can't possibly understand what's holding you.

Trying and completely failing to understand what on earth you see in this guy and why on earth you'd want to stay with him.

He sounds like a total cunt.

Are you mad OP?