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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 21/03/2013 20:56

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
bountyicecream · 09/04/2013 20:49

Sad and Angry match . That is such a typical FW response. Clearly he was in the wrong for leaving them unattended. Anything could have happened - presumably there is bleach and all sorts in the kitchen. But rather than admit that he was not supervising them he has blamed the poor DC instead Hmm . I feel for you and your DC too. Perhaps leclerc can advise you better if she's around later because I seem to remember she had an issue with her FW smacking one of her DC.

better everytime I hear a story like that I worry that it might be one of us. H has never ever been violent to me, but I am still a teeny bit nervous of his response when I tell him that I actually want out.

MatchsticksForMyEyes · 09/04/2013 20:55

What I also hate is the mixed messages. He has terrified them both today, but then when he realises he is on a sticky wicket with them is back to hugging them and all sweetness and light. What the hell must they think? DS idolises him. All I can think is that they only have 1 full day a week with him, my influence is far greater. I must make sure more than anything that they have really high self esteem. I don't want to demonise him to the DC, but I made sure I told DD today that daddy shouldn't have done what he did. I'm terrified that the old adage that girls marry a version of their father is true and I am already anxious about the future for her.

betterthanever · 09/04/2013 21:02

match even though my DS has never even met my FW and he does know what he has done is wrong, he every now and again makes a comment sort of seeing him in a good light almost as if he is thinking `but he is my Dad how could he not be nice' and I guess when most are nice it is hard for them to understand that their's is not and they don't want to believe it. It's not nice to have to face really is it :-( and I guess for quite a while I felt the same.
The fact that they have been terrified by him may make them seek his affection more as they want the terror to stop and in the same way partners do they think that it will. It is so not fair.

ponygirlcurtis · 09/04/2013 21:05

Match that's awful. Bad enough that he left them unattended in an area that is not secured - I think we've all probably done that a couple of times, then come back to devastation and mentally cursed ourselves for being daft. But to blame them, and then to smack them for it (and worse - it sounds like he was throwing them about and really scaring them Sad ). That's why you are on here. I would record it somewhere with someone, for advice - your Health Visitor, maybe?

better - you don't have to feel a fraud just because he's not on the scene, if you still need support then we are here.

I have to say though, that I immediately thought feared it could be Maggie. Glad it's not. Hope you are doing ok, lovely.

TisILeclerc · 09/04/2013 21:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bountyicecream · 09/04/2013 21:06

I worry about that with my DD too match . I'm hoping that by no longer being married to my H (one day soon!) and that by giving her sensitive and age-appropriate explanations as to why our marriage has broken down it may actually make her more aware. I certainly think that their future is better than if we were still married (cos I will leave when my plans are in place!) to them and normalising the behaviour.

Some people with older DC have certainly described statements from their DC suggesting to how switched on they are too their father's faults. So I'm really hoping that with honesty but obviously sensitivity too (as after all the FW are still their DF) that we will bring up aware and mature DDs. And safe too.

Also I've read before that children in EA appear to idolise the abusive parent as they have learnt that that approach generally keeps them sweet and therefore treated better. Even at a really young age Sad . So it's possible that your DS doesn't quite idolise your FW as much as you think.

foolonthehill · 09/04/2013 21:12

My children don't currently see their Dad physically....we use Skype

a sample from this weekend's charming quotes:

FW to DC3 "well no offence but I don't want to hear about Uncle or what you have been doing together. I don't like him". She is 8.

FW to DC1 " don't worry darling, Mummy is not very well, soon she will be ok again and she will see that I need to come home and all be together again" She is 11

FW to DC2 " I don't want you to worry because i am not giving up, I will never give up. Mummy is keeping me out now but i will do everything right and i will be back at home soon. I won't let us be apart. I will be in my house with my wife and my children...(turns aside to sob uncontrollably)...I (sob) love you all so very very (sob) much...tell Mummy I love her so, so much" He is 9.

this is the man who i left 18 months ago because he was emotionally and verbally abusing the children

match you are not alone....how I wish a great big black hole would open up and swallow the lot of them.

Angry Angry Angry

bountyicecream · 09/04/2013 21:16

Shock Angry and Sad for your DC fool What a truly pathetic excuse of a man, giving them false hope and blaming you.

NoraLuca · 09/04/2013 21:17

helloo ladies... should that be Staggering Vixens Wink I haven't been back on MN for ages, what with having no internet at home... but but but my lovely old uni friend is sending me her old laptop (which isn't actually that old, will do me fine!) such a lovely thing to do! And unexpected!

I hope everyone is OK.. have speed-read the thread, hope Maggie is away and safe.

It's been two months since I left H, can't believe how fast it's gone. And how nice H is being now. I miss him sometimes. I can't imagine moving back in with him though. The DDs seem to have got used to the situation.

Power to you all!
(is that a naff thing to say? I live in a country where the Ghostbusters themetune gets airtime on mainstream radio. I have given up trying to judge what is cool or naff Wink )

MatchsticksForMyEyes · 09/04/2013 21:18

To be honest, I'm not quite sure how to play it. 99% of the time they have a great time. I think he will shoot himself in the foot with dd as she will stop wanting to go.
Not sure about ds-he seems to want whichever of us he isn't with. I thought it hadn't really impacted on him much, but clearly it has.

NoraLuca · 09/04/2013 21:22

Match DD2 was like that, wanting whoever she wasn't with. How old is your DS?

betterthanever · 09/04/2013 21:25

Thanks Pony. It seems like I was drawn back tonight and the subject is how the DC feel about things which is my main priority really.

I feel in limbo as I don't know what FW will do next (I feeling I guess you all know well). He hasn't complied with the court order for indirect contact, so he may be dropping the case, or he may go back to court (we have another date in a couple of weeks for a review' that was set when indirect was ordered) and just push for straight direct contact (which I hope to god they will not give)... it's unsettling and as I don't know what will happen I have NO idea what to say to DS who is aware of his recent reappearance after so along. He will be loving the fact he has control' again and I am sat wondering.

Fool the quotes are so shocking - I take it you keep this kind of thing for court? your poor DC and poor you having to deal with the aftermath/questions etc. how did his hunger strike go? he was threatening that last time I was on. I take it, it didn't go well?

MatchsticksForMyEyes · 09/04/2013 21:28

Nora he will be 3 next month. DD is 5.

snowshapes · 09/04/2013 22:04

Oh my goodness, I had not even thought about how DC might adapt their behaviour to be the chidren FW wants rather than who they are. The problems wih DD, not his DD, started not to do that. I kind of assumed he behaved like that to her as she was his SD.

match what a shame for your poor dcs. And fool, these quote are shocking. Your poor dcs and poor you. I would probably explain in an age appropriate manner that he should not be saying these things. I did say to DD after yesterday morning's carry on that I ws sorry she witnessed that.

mink will pm you re the anxiety tip. Thanks to everyone who replied to my long rant. I will try to fit a bit of me itn but because I work fulltime that tends to me mostly doing stuff with the kids, which gives me a lift. Will try to resolutely ignore FWittery during school hols as have been looking forward to this time. Mr Nasty has returned though today as I am not doing what is expected. Deep breaths.

TisILeclerc · 09/04/2013 22:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FairyFi · 09/04/2013 22:18

I'm so sorry he's terrorising your babies Match, its not simply smacking treating them this way. The contrast between you is much starker now that you are not together though. As they now know the feeling of completely different environment when with you alone, and can completely relax, but when with him... well.. they just won't want to go because he's terrifying them. They will decide.

Awful emotional /guilt/blackmail from your FW Fool. FW here does the same as often and as sobbingly as possible does make me wonder whether they care about the DC atall?! or just themselves really.

power vibes to Maggie hoping you are safe lovely.

me, diagnosed PTSD, I really can't take much more of him. I just keep hoping he won't be the FW he reliably is Sad. The news on the diagnosis is abnormal cells (like you get with cell changes on the cervix, but it doesn't get better and can stay like this for long long time), but I'm presuming not in any way advanced as letter calling me in to see GP to discuss results says not to worry. Taking that as at a very manageable stage.

snowshapes · 09/04/2013 22:18

Phone errors, the problems with dd, not his dd, were because she would not adapt her behaviour. One thing I realised, which prompted me to leave, was that I was in danger of wanting her to, so that we could keep the peace Sad.

tis I am already the wicked witch but still, I feel for you. There is no way I would currently want to sit at a table with FW much less for such an occasion. I hope you still enjoy dd2's birthday, though, despite this.
I have to say your post about colour charts cheered me this morning. I was doing well on my sorting here till I got ill followed by the return of Fwittery. I shall try and focus on the things which are important to me and for dcs, which is using our living space better.DD has told me it needs more colour when I repaint!

ponygirlcurtis · 09/04/2013 22:19

fool Sad - do the DCs actually want to speak to him, if he's being like that? Can you intervene, and tell him that if he continues to say things like that, Skyping will stop? He's scarily deluded, even after all this time... Maybe his hunger strike is affecting his brain?

hey Nora!!! Nice to see you back. Two months, can't believe it. How do you feel, other than sometimes missing him? (I missed mine for ages) Has he accepted any responsibility for what led you to leave?

better that sounds horrible, just sitting waiting. Surely if he hadn't complied with one court order, they wouldn't then give him even more contact on the back of that? Do you have a lawyer on the case? Very unsettling for you.

snowshapes · 09/04/2013 22:27

Oh fi I think if docs were worried, they would have set an appointment to see you sharpish so that sounds goodish news! Re the PTSD, I am really sorry to hear that. You have so much to deal with. I am not surprised you can't take much more of him. Strength to you.

ponygirlcurtis · 09/04/2013 22:28

Sending you hugs and Thanks Fi. Like the letter says, try not to worry, but it's so hard not to.

Leclerc - don't goooooooooo! Or would DD2 really, really not understand? I just can't imagine it being in any way appropriate (or possible) for you to be sat at the same table as him and be all pretending to be civil, etc. Unless DD2 will completely melt down, I think I'd not go. What if he sits beside you?

snow I understand what you mean about wanting DD to amend her behaviour. I found myself going that way with DS1 (not FW's DS), for his own protection and for mine. So glad we are out.

TisILeclerc · 09/04/2013 22:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foolonthehill · 09/04/2013 22:32

sadly he shows no sign of wasting away........suspect this is due to his being unable to stck at anything for the amount of time it takes to say "Yah boo sucks"!

feel like I must have been asleep for all those years i was with him working so hard to make it him work.

Why why why???????

foolonthehill · 09/04/2013 22:34

Sad le clerc...that you have to go.
Hope he picks up the bill and you are left well and truly alone to enjoy your meal.

Sad Sad fi hope that the diagnosis gets you some proper help and light at the end of the tunnel

TisILeclerc · 09/04/2013 22:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis · 09/04/2013 22:45

I agree, daily survival is all-consuming. It's like when you bring a new baby home - that first three months all you do is get to the end of each day and fall into bed, there's no room for rational thought, planning, anything else other than 'the situation' of having a new baby. To do that for years on end must be totally draining. But despite being so drained you did get out fool. You are an inspiration.

leclerc, that truly sucks that you gotta. But like you say, wax and pluck and preen, and don fire-resistant yet lacey undergarments, and get through it. Probably best not to drink anyway, keep your wits about you around him. then come home and get plastered