Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

So have you finished the shelf yourself? You could do so, then say nothing more about it - even be 'cheerful' if you want.

While down south I tried to explain some of FW's FWittery to parents while we were all together (they are separated). Got no reply, they just sat there, while I got louder. Didn't sleep all night, decided to speak about it again the next day. Explained that I was no longer angry with FW but not having seen them while divorce was ongoing, wanted to share the anger I had felt iyswim. And that them saying nothing made me feel that they didn't believe me. DM quite validating, DF said he could not really say anything as had not heard FW's side. I said feel free to ring him! And what I had said (about FW not really working or contributing) would have been enough, I thought! We smoothed it over.

Came back and have got angrier and angrier, tbh there is always something with DF. Now am depressed, hate for FW has returned, however am sure that after a few days I'll recover. I don't think they want to know anything real about my life, not my troubles, not my voluntary work, just mundane stuff. I knew this, I knew it, not the first time I've tried to say things, and then vowed not to speak of anything real ever again. This time I'm keeping my renewed vow.

Silvery my parents would be the same way. It's why I don't talk to them about any of this. I still remember them having a go at my older sister when she split with her abusive ex - they said it was her fault for not being a better wife.

(well, that and the fact that my father is dead - so rather difficult to tell him anything)

Silver that's just absolutely awful. A parent's job is to support their child, not to be some kind of devil's advocate. And the fact that they didn't see you while the divorce was ongoing speaks volumes in itself... But it sounds as if this is an ongoing situation that you recognise. Sorry that you are feeling like this though, it's so flattening when people you thought or at least hoped you could rely on don't.

And Alice - again, what an awful response to have to your child going through such a terrible, destructive experience.

They were quite supportive on the phone, and DF supplied copies of letters I needed to prepare case. Neither could really come and stay while divorce and settlement going on, as FW was here. I didn't want to go to them for a visit as did not want to leave house with FW and DD alone in it.

I understand them, I suspect both have AS - and me too - and DM has her own coping strategy learned long ago to survive with her unpredictable mother, which is just to go 'oh it's all in the past'. I have always needed lots of recovery time after seeing either of them, they aren't stately homers but they seem to find it hard to understand other people.

It is very saddening ... Silivery sorry to hear of their response.

Its that hope springs eternal thing again? I would always hope it would be different, maybe it was your last ditch attempt to convince yourself.

I hope you do move through this fallout soon and come out feeling all the better for another eye-opener from them. You do amazing work lovely lady, and its their loss that they are not aware that they have such a wonderful daughter. Hope you feel more up soon xx

Alice - the shelf scenario sounds very familiar to me too. Well done for standing up for yourself, it takes a lot in that situation. From now on, perhaps pretend there isn?t a shelf, ignore it completely and at a later stage if he?s done nothing, do it yourself/call in handyman/ask neighbour. When he comes in tonight could you be polite and very mildly incredulous and distant, not enough to set him off? As for ?calling the shots? and blackmailing you with meltdown if you leave (I?ve had that threat too) ? . As wise Fool said to me a while ago, these fws never actually come to any harm, it?s all hot air.

Silver re your DF?s comment ? family should be al about support, not saying they must hear the other side as though they think you may be the problem on your behalf. I?m not surprised you feel in an angry turmoil. Remember, WE believe you. And I second Fi beautifully-put lovely comment to you Xxxx

Fi - I too am frightened about the yellow disc in the sky and the holes in the cloud ? what could it mean??? How are you, lovely?

Tis great you?re back in the land of the Vixens

pony sorry to hear you?re still poorly

Tis glad you managed to walk SiL through some facts. That was brave. And also happy for you the other friends were great

Tis you've hit the nail on the head I believe

Tis I don't have the chance to walk my SILs through the facts. They have all taken FW's side, despite this being the second time he has had a wife leave him and take two dc with her. I saw one of them when I went to collect the dc yesterday and was totally blanked.

No criticism of you meant by the way. Don't want you to misunderstand me.

To be honest, from what FW has said I've deduced their dad was abusive and therefore nothing FW does can't be excused in some way. It's all normal to them.

Sounds like you handled that situation very well, Leclerc. And now you have had a chance to have your voice heard a bit, as well as getting some nice time with the other relatives that don't have an axe to grind, refreshing!!!
Will you SIL mention the conversation to FW, do you think?

Sorry, ladies, can I just rant for a bit so I can clear my head? We've had 2 days of conversations (on and off) about our relationship. I was trying not to argue and saying I just think we're different people and that's ok. Somehow he turned that into I said he'd pretended to be someone he wasn't.

Then he went on to say that he's really, really upset that he thinks of us as a team and I don't.

Plus if I can only persevere for another couple of years, his career will be where he wants it to be, we'll be very financially secure and then he can focus on other stuff ie me and ds, and making us feel loved and secure. He was very poor when he was younger and he comes back to the fact that I just can't understand how important that has made financial security to him.

My childhood wasn't a wealthy one at all (council house, parents on benefits because of illness,etc) but that didn't bother me as much. It was the emotional insecurity that bothered me growing up which is why emotional security is important to me now.

He's now gone out for the day to see his friends, look at shiny stuff, etc, whatever makes him happy and I'm sitting here feeling like shit and crying because I make him feel so bad but also because anytime I feel like we're making headway in a conversation 'yes, we're different but let's not make this an awful split for sake of ds' . It then becomes all about him and how I could make it work and no concrete plan for moving forward with splitting up.

I'm hormonal and tired (balancing working from home and Easter holiday activities) so sorry if this all seems like nonsense to get upset over.

oops, forgot to add, ponygirl I just realised where your name is from (duh!). I love that book and film

tethering of course it is not nonsense it us only being with a FW for so long that might make you think.it was iyswim.

A bit like but not the Same as match sils it is all normal to them

been thinking that a bit about ex. his m was going on again the other day about what a horrendous child he was. reminded me of was it pony saying she still wants to defend her FW. when she says that i always feel like snapping well what do you expect? When you weren't out leaving him alone in the house you were watching his brother and sister beating the crap out of him or telling him you never wanted him or making it absolutely clear that number 1 son and darling daughter were much more important. and also enabling his drunk father in the pa of his siblings. epic fail as a mother. or dragging him about to his sisters classes and events. her only interest.in him behaving was so that she could forget he existed. i remember her telling about his he once went into the middle if a busy roundabout to get her some daffodils. she smacked him because he could been run over. when she told me this i could not understand what he was doing there in 1st place. turns out she had taken him to dd dance class and then told him to.play outside because get was bored. 5 yrs old outside alone on a busy stretched in the city centre ffs. And i did not get thus from him but from her. to this day the makes it clear he does not count.

it makes me and and i want to hug him and fix him. he does not know what normal is. but i need to stop trying and focus on my kids not growing up thinking this kind of fucked up 'you are my favourite' or you are in my way behaviour or shouting abuse is normal.

Sorry for rant. seen ex a few times this week and have lots of seriously confused messed up feelings.

but tethering to get back to your post. is that team as in racing car team with him.in the driving seat and you in the pits doing everything to make sure he succeeds. or team as in family. cos if it is the latter there is no in a few years i will have time for the kids. They grow up fast. life is short.

Life is too short to be taken for a mug.

And as for financial.security. yup i have had a few exes who grew up in poverty. They all thought financial security was vital. but two of them had love from at least one parent and turned out lovely. the other was FW ex.

When iworked in childcare i noticed that often the poorest parents came in sat down with their kids and said how was your day? Focussed on them. the well off patents with the pressure jobs always had somewhere to be. And those were what people used to call 'a good family'. Money cannot buy you happy well adjusted kids. it is happy loving parent(s) that do that. so if he is not filling that role he is not playing for the team.

Money does not = good family any more than poverty = bad.

Sorry very long rant.

Busy street not stretched in city centre.

To this day she makes it clear --not the-+

Hey Tethering! at name-penny-drop - I had wanted to go for ponyboy, but was worried people would actually think I was a boy!

So you were trying to talk to him about splitting up, and he completely waylaid you with talk of you making more effort to make it work for the next couple of years, after which time he will magically be non-abusive because of financial security? Maybe I have got that wrong, but that's what I took from it.

mink, I said something like that, and Breathe too I think. That sounds awful for him. By the sounds of it (if I can believe all he's told me, which I am now not sure about), my FW also witnessed and experienced some awful stuff. At the time, it did make me want to fix him/comfort him/explain away all the bad stuff with 'he couldn't help it'. It's hard to let go of, because that's the kind of people we are.
My FW also has a 'favourite' and it's obvious to me, and, I think, to her (and her sister). That's an abuse in itself, I think.

I really like what you said about the racing car analogy mink, and I think you have something there - these FW's do think of the family 'team' in those kind of terms (Alice's only yesterday revealed how he thought he was in the driving seat).

And again, I like what you said about money not equalling good family upbringing. I come from a 'good family', although my mum didn't work during the week when I was at primary so she was always around. Her and my DF were interested in me, in my schoolwork, in encouraging me in certain pursuits and supporting me. But, I cannot remember her ever hugging me, or stroking my hair, or playing with me, or telling me she loved me (first time I remember her saying it, I was 18). I spent ages this morning with DS2, him lying on the floor with his legs in the air (not quite sure why...) and me just running my hands through his lovely, lovely hair and actually wanting to sniff him!!!! I am not a perfect parent by any means, I often get ratty and short with DS1 and sometimes I am too tired to play with either of them (and let's not mention at all the fact that I found DS2 playing with two batteries this morning...), but I want my kinds to know love and to feel loved. I hope I am doing that. I am trying.

Sorry, now it's me that's ranting! Who's next?

Yes mink it's a racing team. He does work very hard and long hours but I do everything. I work nusery hours and then some evenings, weekends and mornings too (as I'm self-employed). I do all the washing, cleaning, tidying, everything with ds (from dressing to playing to reading), all shopping, cooking, etc. He does his own ironing and occasionally takes ds out. This week (because I made the mistake of saying I was on holiday to look after dcs on school holiday, dh has stayed home a few mornings simply so HE can have a lie-in whereas my 'holiday' has been running about organising activities for ds, spending a day in the office and at least 1-2hours every day working.

at your fw and his dm although yes, mine does have similarly awful stories of being unwanted, locked in on his own, etc. (and he wonders why I limit the time our dcs spends with that side of the family!)

I thought I'd got better at not blaming myself and trying to 'fix' myself to make this work but this morning/afternoon I'm right back to well, maybe if I did this . . . and I'm so disappointed in myself.

However I have now cleaned the kitchen, emptied the bins, played with ds, put a washing in and ranted on here so I'm now passing the ranting baton to someone else. I'm off out with dc to try to salvage a lovely day .

ponygirl yes, to sniffing dcs . Other mums comment on how cuddly my ds is and I think that's because I have a really strong memory of my df telling me I was too old to give him a goodnight kiss (I was still at primary school!). ds is showered in kisses and cuddles to compensate.

Hope everyone has a better day and thank you, thank you, thank you for listening and sharing your wisdom for you all.

YY Tethering - it's all about their effort, as self-elected head of the so-called 'team' dictatorship . What everyone else does is irrelevant. Don't worry about today, it's just him trying to get you spaghetti-headed again, but you've stopped him by coming on here. Upwards and onwards, enjoy your afternoon out. I plan to get out too, if DS2 ever wakes up, blardy sun has gone now, typical!

Funnily, my FW also said his mum used to lock him in places on his own when he was little, and many other sad little stories. But just because what his parents did was wrong and damaging, doesn't give him the right to pass the misery on and behave in damaging ways to his own family. Many of us have all taken bad stuff from our own childhoods (like what you said about your DF not giving you a kiss, mine about not being shown love), and have vowed to do things differently. They have chosen not to.

Sorry, I am hogging the rant baton again! DS2 is awake productively coughing and I'm determined to leave this blinking flat today!

The sad thing about that incident was it was not FW that told me it was his mum...as an example of how hard he made her life.