Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

It is 2yrs ago today since FW shoved me over and we left for the penultimate time. I feel weird now, like I should have known then it wasn't right and angry that I let the
dc experience another 18mths of it.

regrets we have a few....but just think, we might never have left. Lots don't. At least our DC have peace

Hi everyone...I'm a bit upset here...

FW has taken DS away for a long weekend.

FW texted me yesterday saying that my DM had apparently told his DM that he (FW) had already had some money from me as settlement.

He said it was probably crossed wires between our two families. I replied and agreed about the crossed wires. I mentioned that my mum probably meant a joint loan that I'd just paid off as part of the settlement (so not exactly giving him cash like his DPs had interpreted it!).

I told FW that his DPs apparently told my DM that they didn't know he was getting any settlement at all. Both my DM and his DPs are elderly and get confused (as he wells knows).

I didn't think there was a problem with this.

This morning I get this message from FW about his parents:

"They're not crossed about this. They know full well what's due to me. I don't want to hear about this kind of thing on my break. I'm switching my phone off."

So now he's switched off his phone because he didn't like my response to a conversation that HE started. Does it seem to you that his parents didn't actually know he was getting this settlement money?

I'm not going to be able to speak to DS all weekend now

Bertie perhaps that was his goal? To maneuvre a position where you couldn't ring him? Just a thought.

H has just left for work. I was supposed to drive him to work, but as MIL was here, I asked him if he could just ask his MIL for a lift, since it was only slightly out of the way and she was leaving about the same time anyway to go home. No, of course he can't inconvenience MIL - but it's okay for me to have to disrupt the boys, drag them out to the car, drive him up to work, drop him off, drive home, get both boys back in the house (because at that point they will be expecting to GO somewhere, not just drop off daddy at work). And then settle them again. sigh... Literally 20-30 minutes of hassle for me, when MIL could take 5-10 minutes out of her time to drop him off by his work (and she was willing to do so as well). H said no and got angry with me as soon as MIL left, so he has walked to work. He has COPD so will be rather wheezy when he gets to work, which I'm sure he'll blame on me not taking him there. grrrrrrrrrrr I hate martyr syndrome, I really do.

He pissed off to the bedroom again this morning - he's done it every day he has worked this week - hide up in the bedroom, not helping out with anything, for a couple hours - so not only am I dealing with everything (including children) on my own for most of the day when he's working, but he dumps it on me when he's at home as well - so I have NO time to myself, no time to shower or prepare meals or anything - just have to do it around the children (DS2 is disabled and requires constant supervision). I could just scream. I flat out told him today "If I'd done that to you, even once, you'd have gone NUCLEAR! Why is it okay for you to do this??" No response. If I push it, he gets nasty and defensive. "You don't get it - I'm just starting back to work after some months off" - like I didn't have to do that with maternity leave when I was working fulltime? - I was off a lot longer with a lot more technical and stressful job, and I didn't hide away when I was home. I get so tired of "you don't get it, do you?"

He went on about how tired he was today, but I was the one that was up part of the night with 3yo while he slept. But HE had to go back to bed.

Oh, god. Sorry. I'm in a horrible rant today. Mainly because amid all this nonsense, MIL was here, and so I had to be polite and cheerful when all I wanted to do was scream.

Alice I think you're right...I shouldn't have replied to his text should I? Should have just said 'ok'

I'm thinking about changing his name on my phone to 'DO NOT RESPOND!'

And the 'martyr' syndrome? That an entry qualification at the university of fuckwittery isn't it? Sorry you're having a bad day Alice..

I think he's trying to be cruel again Bertie but it doesn't mean that you will not be able to speak to your DS at all as that is down to your DS, and you, and not FW! You must be able to contact your DC, its a minimum requirement of DC being absent with FW.

yy to realising the games/controlling/monsters out there.

good ranting Alice go for it... sounds like you badly neeeded the vent!

No need to apologise [buwink]

[busmile] to all xx

Yes, weirdly enough, I feel better having had the rant. At least it will be a relatively quiet evening as he's working.

Hope everyone is doing okay.

I will text him tomorrow to ask if I can speak to DS. If I don't hear anything I will try and call.

But Fi if his phone is still switched off there's nothing I can do is there? They're 300 miles away...and not due back until Tuesday or Wednesday...

Match, I agree with fool, it is so very hard to leave and you did. My final effort at going was not my first either.

bertie, agree it sounds like that conversation was engineered. But regardless, whatever goes on between you and FW, it is nothing to do with DC. He should not be deprived of being able to talk to his mum when he is away from home .

Alice you sound like you need a break. Why can he not get a taxi or public transport? What you describe sounds like xh1, it is no fun and I only had one dc to worry about.

Like you say, text him, he won't have his phone off all the time he's talking b*x It is completely unfair to deny your DS a chat to you, or for you to have a way of contacting, emergencies happen and he cannot be out of contact whilst he has your DS.

bertie that is exactly the kind of reply I get if and only if ex knows he is in the wrong and is annoyed about it.

his phone won't actually be off. he is at it.
ignore.

I bet your bottom dollar if you sent back a text saying no worries re.phone being off I am too busy to talk to you as I am in a jacuzzi with the welsh rugby team (borrowed from tis) George Clooney AND Tom Ellis (he'd be in my jacuzzi ) so my hands are a bit full right now IYSWIM you would not be able to get him off the phone.
he is being a twunt.

Alice the problem is you do get it. you get that he is being lazy, self centered and a drama llama. the problem is that he doesn't get it. Wonder what he would do if you said I am having a shower/break/doing the cooking so I am putting the dcs in your room with you to keep an eye on them. ciao.

and yy to not having left the first time but it is ok to do it when you are ready. I should have left ex the first time he threw me out of his house in the middle of the night when I was heavily pregnant. and I should not have let him come back on any of the at least 50 occasions when he flounced off in a huff. once for over a month and yet still somehow he talked me into taking him back and made me look like a total twat because by the point I had told my friends he had gone and half of them had the bunting up and the pom poms out (and they didn't even know what he was like)

AIBU to think that his mum should make arrangements through him to see his kids? I always tell her when he is due to have them and say so you can speak to him about it and maybe make a plan. and she always goes oh but maybe I could come trek all the way over to yours to see them on another day. she lives on the same side of town as him. the opposite side from me. and she is his mum. I am being a bit of a cow but I cannot always be bothered but she would not know a hint if it jumped out on her wearing a sign saying I AM A HINT. I get the impression part of it is she finds trying to talk to me about it easier than dealing with him but he is in her house every single day.

That midlife crisis post was depressing [busad] I have actually said 'It's not all about you' so often to dh that it's become a catchphrase for us.
We're obviously at the final part of it where he spends months saying he wants a divorce but won't do anything about it so I'll have to take steps and then he can be the victim. Arse [buangry] . . .have just realised it's impossible to be angry and a bunny. It's made me laugh.

Does anyone else spend time thinking about how a normal person would react in contrast to how dh does?! It's helping me emotionally detach. We had a big stompy tantrum last night because we didn't have something he wanted to eat. I actually offered to go to the shop and get it if he watched ds but he chose instead to huff and puff and stomp off. I just found myself thinking, wouldn't a normal person have said 'it's ok' or 'that's nice of you to offer to go to get it?' Pah! Sometimes I think I don't know what normal is.

Alice I can guarantee if I say I'm tired after being up with dcs then dh will go back to bed. Every single time so I sympathise with you.

Bertie do you know where they've gone? Can you get a number for where they're staying and phone there? (Sorry you've probably already thought of that [bublush]

tethering a normal person might even have said, it's ok I'll go and get it it was probably my turn to do the shopping anyway. what would you like me to get and I'll cook.

It is like the final straw with ex when he came in shouting and ranting saying "I am not going to eat that fucking shit. don't you dare feed me that ever again" and I told him quite calmly I had had enough and did not want a relationship with him anymore. he phones up a couple of days later to try and sort it out and said, seriously did you not know I was going to be annoyed about you giving me that. and I said 'no. no I did not. but a normal person would have said "it's ok thanks but I don't really fancy that so I will make myself something instead."' and I could tell he knew I was right.

bertie I probably would not text him first as he may then turn his phone off. I would ring him first. that way you will know if his phone is on and if he then turns it off when you ring you will know he did it on purpose but he will also know you know IYSWIM.

If DC wants to speak to you then he may ask. if he likley to refuse him if he does ask?

also if you put in 141 before you dial his number then he will not be able to tell it is you calling as it withholds the number.

mink, totally agree that his mum should see children through him, unless you got on particularly well . Your time with DCs is your time with DCs,, they see your family. Just like I have no need whatsoeverto speak to ex-MIL on the phone when FW is talking to DC, supposed to be [buangry]. But yes, depends on your relationship, but it is a question of boundaries.

Re normal people, ah, how do they react? One of the things with xh1, though it all went wrong, was that it did not feel like sharing a house, it felt like it was my space because it was our joint space, with FW, I was always conscious of his presence and he never let me alone, unless I was busy doing something he did not want to do. I could not even season a sauce without him hovering. Not explaining that very well. I think I forgot what normal was!

Still having to hassle FW for the remaining £40 he owes me. He is now talking about ringing the CSA to get them to reduce payments to his first wife as now he is paying to me as he 'doesn't see why he should fund someone else's lifestyle'. Pointed out he hasn't actually paid me what he said he would. What a worm. As if paying for school dinners, clothes and shoes is some kind of extravagant lifestyle he would be 'paying for'

match I get much the same. imagine somehow implying he is funding the lifestyle of his dcs mothers when in fact he is paying fo the kids he doesn't look after.

snow I get on OK with his mum. we are fairly friendly with each other but it is just another added complication working around his visits and hers. and if she comes to mine then I feel obliged to sit while she visits the kids and then she talks to me not to them. I just don't like sitting in anyway. and I don't like to take them to hers as it is miles away and he might be there. she was v good when they were younger and had them one afternoon in soft play while I had some exercise time. but now they are in school there is less time and it is more tricky to orgnaise something. I'll have to get my thinking cap on as I guess I do kind of owe her.

anyway, he just turned up just now out of the blue. I was startled. I mean who comes to the door at this time of night? so I was a bit off and said what are you doing at my house? he said easter eggs. so I said something like oh. well could you let me know next time. and I asked him to speak to his mum about his next contact as she would like to see the kids.

then I texted, in future just drop me a quick text before you come round as I wasn't expecting anyone. and thanks for the eggs although the dcs would probably prefer to spend more time with you.

said as much to my mum and she thinks I am being mean and says it is the thought that counts and I said no. no it really is not the thought that counts, when you are kid what actually counts is getting to spend time with you parents not presents. typical of him though. puts far too much emphasis on cards at the right time and presents at christmas and none of actual basic day to day. plus he knows fine well choclate sends them stratospheric and I only let them have one easter egg which take them weeks to eat. so I will give them his and put mine aside. every year we end up with a cupboard full of eggs until about september.

I suppose he did not want me/them thinking he had forgotten but really it would be better if he made an effort to see them this week instead.

harrumph!

No, mink I don't think you do owe her for looking after her own grandkids, that is what normal people do. I meant more if you liked her and didn't want to lose her friendship because you and Fw had finished. I totally get if DCs are at school; you have work, after school activities, playdates to fit in. I would only do it if you want to, and will want to be doing it more than once, because once is a precedent. But no, you don't owe her, you are bringing up her GDCs whilst her son does 3 hours a week!

Re the eggs, I hate unannounced visits like that. I think it is fair enough to ask for a warning and time to spend with DCs. My mum is master (mistress?) of the ambush gift drop.

Hi all,

mink that is typical stealth fwittery re eggs, isn't it.

bertie and that was typical overt fwittery from yours, engineering an argument then surning phone off in sgtrop. Does he phone regularly when you have ds? Could you "accidentally" leave phone off and see how he likes it?!

Oooh I have had strong gusts of fwittery all afternoon. He has argued and said things that shouldn't be said in front of dcs until dd felt ill. Also I am apparently a fucking wimp who wants to live dysfunctionally and who engineered our split because I enjoy making him be violent and behave badly. The true fw colours in their purest forms have re-emerged. Thank you fw .

I tried saying I am not going to engage with you while you're shouting and insulting me, but that resulted in more dysfunction in front of dcs so I had to take him aside to listen to his crap to redirect it away from dcs hearing IYSWIM. Finally got them upstairs to be but am sitting here on tenterhooks wondering if he's going to burst up here and rant again. Oh apparently I'm selfish, see myself as a god and put myself before everyone else. Oh and I'm evil.

YY to having to have it out rather than it be in front of the DC. FW was banging on so much in front of DD yesterday that she asked me "Does daddy hate you mummy?" Fucking FW!

Thank God for this thread because I would be half believing the crap in the old days and also I know I have this resource to turn to and I think about if as a kind of buffer when things are bad like today. In fact I nearly laughed and said "fw bingo" to him as he uttered some classic phrases, oops!

snow thank you. bit os persepctive helps.

I did [bugrin] though at master (mistress?) of the ambush gift drop.
It sounds like the weirdest evil super power you ever heard of. contradiction in terms.

I am sure there are plenty of people who would think wtf? he gave the kids eggs what is her problem? (the whole of F4J for a start) but I know here people get the context. anyway they can phone him tomorrow that way he can speak to them.

match fucking FWs indeed [busad]

Tethering yes I know where they're staying and there's no land line so I'm relying on his mobile.
I know exactly what you mean about the victim status though! I ended up starting the divorce proceedings and now I'm the one who breaking up the family...and he's the poor destitute one...despite the fact that he was the one who was "caught with his pants down" (so to speak)! I knew that it would turn out this way and it did!

Mink thanks for the tip about phoning first...yes I'll try the that. I'm just hoping that FW sees sense and doesn't do anything stupid. DS and I are supposed to be going abroad on holiday with me family in Thursday...a few people have asked me what I'll do if he doesn't bring DS back in time. ??

In the meantime I spoke I my DM tonight. She might be 87 but she is convinced that his DPs don't have a clue what's going on...he's probably fed them a story of 'his version' of events.

So I think the real reason he's pissed off and punishing me is because my DM has been completely honest with his DPs and told them whats what (although she's maybe not been entirely accurate about the precise figures bless her). She thinks they have a right to know the truth though.