Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I should add that this sounds like I recognised how bad my marriage was before I left. I am not sure that I did. I thought things were wrong and I left out of self-preservation, but quite how much of myself I lost, I am only just discovering.

Sorry i turned your post, which was about others, into an all about me post! I have one situation where I suspect the person is deeply unhappy, but can't pinpoint the cause. I have tried to nudge her in the right direction, but got nowhere. Deep and total refusal to consider the relationship might be the issue. I have butted out because i don't want to project

snow glad you turned it around though.
Maybe I just never thought about these things enough before.
Have read about narc before but I don't think I have met one knowingly. Ex is more sociopathic personality disorder if anything. He is entitled not very socially aware and has a tendency to think rules are for other people.

If you don't mind me being curious, does your mum have many friends? Obviously if a member of your family is narc you cannot chose them to not be your mum, if only, and having to decide to stay away from your mum must be hard even when they are narc. but can they be friends with people given that friends do have a choice?

Am wondering because either i have met narc people and never noticed or haven't because they tend not to get into social circles IYSWIM.

The FWs i have met are all of the insecure messed up yet entitled variety with or without substance issues.

Hi snow and mink - I find myself seeing monsters everywhere too now I'm "enlightened", mink. Well not so much monsters but seeing a degree of fwittery in many people. But also noticing how good and kind lots of friends' DHs are, as far as I can see. You know, respectful, caring, doing something for anniversary, all without having to be dumped first IYSWIM.

My issue of this morning is solved. But now another problem. I have realised that my situation has become the latest on the grapevine although I thought I was keeping things very low key and pretty much stick to my close group of good friends, not get involved with the wider waves of nattering gossip. But obviously word has got out and I find my reaction is to feel guilty, defensive of FW and wanting to put on a happy act to prove everyone wrong. Obviously my conscious mind knows the abusive facts and the years of torment and why I'm finishing. But the instinct is hard to suppress. Drill some sense into me please someone! Another friend has split with her H and she is now feeling devastated. But no-one leaving an EA situation ends up feeling like they made the wrong decision, do they? Also, fw is laying on the guilt heavily.

Not sure I have turned it around, though I am working on it!

My relationship with my mother has a long, long history of dysfunctionality and I would go on all night if I started to describe it. Funnily enough, one reason I did not break up withFW earlier was because she treated him badly and I did not trust my own judgement. But it was a bit more clear after her not being in my life for over three years. After the lightbulb moment that she was a narc, I felt better, like i wasn't crazy after all, but very soon, i felt like I was again, so I had to ask myself why and I realised it was not my mum.

Though she has issues for sure. Yes, she has friends. A handful, and a social life. If you are onside, she can be very giving, very loyal, it is if you depart from what she wants you to do. I do not know her well enough to really comment on her friendships, though.

The really funny thing is, however, having been readin this board, that I do wonder about the role of my dad in this. Certainly he enabled her behaviour, he stood by, I would get into details but I would get upset, but he also drank, he must have also been hard to live with. I remember putting him to bed when he was drunk, things like that. Funny, a colleague mentioned being drunk in charge of children being an offence (it was a professional discussion) and i had to stop myself saying, oh yes, I grew up with that. No-one prosecuted anyone.

So, anyway, who knows? I try not to think about it. I am more concerned about avoiding such behaviour in the future, we put up with so much sometimes in the name of love.

I understand Breathe. People I've told call FW all the names under the sun and it really stings to hear it. I too feel defensive of him, even after the stuff he's done. I don't know if it feels like my judgement is being called into question if they think he's so awful. It's like as a child, my sister and I could insult each other all day long, but woe betide anyone else who did.

Also, meant to say, snow, I am very sorry to hear about the wider family issues. I agree that our acceptance of the crap we're put through can often come from childhood.

breathe i literally had a friend turn up in my office on another pretext and it was so obvious she wanted gossip. I didn't give her it.

But yes, I feel guilty for breaking up my marriage,though I am not going to undo that. I don't feel like it was wrong though, I think I will just adopt the it was not working out stance with people i do not know well.

I am signing off now, I have spilled enough metaphorical ink. I will be back to be more supportive and less me later!

Yes, exactly, Match. I wish people (my family in particular) would realise that me telling them about the problems does not mean they should open the floodgates entirely about their feelings about fw - after all, I was with him for many years and had kids with him, so yy to my judgment being called into question (although my judgment is clearly fucked in choosing him, I don't really need salt rubbed in that wound!) - having struggled out from the bottom of the heap in my family, I feel defensive and upset when my choices are so heavily slated as soon as they feel they have licence to do so, even though I wanted their support - very complex feelings involved!

Although I do understand they feel furious on my behalf and are very angry with fw for the fear and abuse he's inflicted. It's just, I wish they could realise human feelings aren't black and white and give me a bit of space, whilst providing support, otherwise my own feeling of anger and outrage with fw, which are my door to escape, are squashed and the instinctive defensiveness steps in.

Sorry, I did not answer the question properly. Do i feel defensive of FW? I have given maybe 4 people I trust something approaching most of the story of what went on. Beyond that I have not told anyone, apart from the bare bones, if that. It has yet to get out in a major way. Of those i have told, do i feel defensive of FW,i think i did, but i also needed them to tell me their views so i knew it was not just me, iyswim. I have to say, professional colleagues, mum friends, relatives, I cannot see me divulging details.

Re my family, I still do not think I get that it was not normal somehow!

Yes, your feelings sound very familiar to me, too, snow!

BTW you're not talking too much about you at all, please never think that, you're being very supportive to others and it's great to discuss with you - and anyway, we are all fully entitled to vent, particularly here; that's what the Staggering Vixens is for xxx

Sorry snow did not mean to pry.

in Scotland i don't think being drunk in charge of kids is an offence. Same as in this country leaving your kids home alone is not technically criminal neglect unless something happened to them and then it becomes an offence. (the fact it is not an offence does mother make it a good idea though but OTOH my mum used to leave us in the house for a few hours at age 12 and that was ok- we knew where she was and what to do but Exes mum used to leave them when they were much younger for much longer)

Not sure i would always pass a breathsliser test on occasions when kids have been in bed but i would never be in sole charge so drunk i could not look after them and/or call a taxi/ambulance if we needed to.

Mink, ditto from me too, to your last para

Maybe that is wrong that there are times i would not drive a car but can look after kids. but then i do not drive if i have anything at all to drink.

And in Scotland they are about to drop the limit again.

I suspect if they were locking up.passed patents half if MN would be in the slammer for drunk in charge of a minor given half the posts on mn of a wknd. [BUSHOCK]

[bushock]

Notice there are no bunny though.

And now we know how threads fill up it is me a) rambling b)pissed in charge of phone on occasion-not tonight c) fixing typos!!

Speaking of that should say pissed parents not passed patents

Dam gaslighting thread munching phone [bublush][buhmm]

And is anyone else childish enough to find writing [buhmm] buhmm funny or is it just me?

And yy to the whole feeling defensive/guilty/judged. i would never call him abusive in front if his family.

My mum is definitely judging me for it.

But my friends have been great. they understand.
I judge myself too.
and sometimes still think i am making a mountain from a molehill.

mink [bugrin] at gas lighting, thread munching phone and also finding buhmm funny!

Haha, yes, I did wonder about half of MN being drunk online as I posted. But probably not so drunk they are passed out on the floor relying on their kids to get them into bed.

But never mind, God knows where all that came from anyway. I had a lovely day with DCs. Feel so blessed. And the house is a bit of a mess but I don't care because I am looking forward to a lovely day tomorrow.

I did have an Apocalyptic dream last night though, dreamt it was never going to be sunny again and that everyone was dying. At the end of my dream, there was some hazy sunshine and it transpired that it was somehow going to be fine. Most odd. I need a holiday somewhere sunny, obviously.

If my parents ever ask about FW, I shall just tell them I do not feel inclined to comment. See, this thread has given me a heads up! breathe, thankyou for your kind words. I think I am just getting it out my system!

I do need to NC to a spring name though, waaaaay too much info up here now.

snow your apocalyptic dream sounds quite scary! But also made me [bugrin] a bit (BTW mink bugrin quite funny to write too, snort) because it made me think of those end of the world films, thank God you saw hazy sunshine at the end [bushock]

Yes, it was horrid. One of those dreams where you are glad to wake up!

Night night anyway - no sleeping bunnies, so will settle for [busmile]

G'night, snow, sleeping bunnies would be sweet!

Soppiness warning.

I have my sleeping bunnies back [bugrin]
i have been missing tucking them in at night.

[bugrin] at bugrin.Miranda would laugh.

snow dream sounds grim. maybe a positive take would be that your subconscious is telling you that life with and just after fw feels like the sun will never shine but it did end with hazy sunshine. so maybe that is the first sign of a bright future.

Dreams do cling though.

I have recurring dream about getting back with x1 and it being lovely. and it is so vivid. i get a real shock when i wake up and it is not real it used to happen when x3 was being mean and then i would wake up next to him and feel disloyal and guilty.
It was just my subconscious trying to tell me that our relationship was not right.
don't know why it is still happening now though.

In the dream x1 is practically the age he was when we met. as in half my current age. I'd near enough get arrested mind you i don't think i dream myself my current age iyswim. probably half the shock is waking to find i am nearly twenty years older!!