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So after 14 years together, 12 years married and 3 dcs he lobs this out of left field ...

235 replies

SimoneDeBeaver · 21/03/2013 20:20

He'll be back late because he's going to a Freemason's dinner.

God I don't even know which bloody emoticon to put, as I don't know whether to laugh hysterically, cry or blow up.

This is a man who has always been fun, kind, thoughtful, supportive, dare I say it, a feminist. And he cannot seem to understand why this has left me feeling extremely unnerved. (mainly because I'm not sure what it is and why it is)

I mean, what do they DO? I know they do lots of charidee work, but we already give all we can afford, volunteer a lot, involved in church ... I mean, FTLOG why does he need to join what seems to me a misogynist, secretive, frankly rather silly old-boys club?

Aaaaargh!!

OP posts:
VitoCorleone · 23/03/2013 16:43

24 years ago my dad was killed in a hit and run. Police later found the driver and dispite the fact he had ran over my dad and left him to die he got away with it scot free.

We later found out the driver was a freemason.

notthesamenametoday · 23/03/2013 17:28

Vito that's terrible. So sorry.

It's disgusting that Freemasonry is so endemic in the police. It feels like corruption.

FeistyLass · 23/03/2013 17:47

I'm late to this thread but laughed out loud at the 'intellectual club'.

An ex was in the freemasons. His membership scroll was framed and displayed on his bedroom wall (yeah, that's right, it's a secret organisation but he was so proud of being a member, he had the scroll framed Hmm ).

I read his little book, and also read an expose from a former member. The latter was much more interesting reading. It said that lower members are only given so much information and take an oath to a higher being. Apparently as they move up the ranks they are given more information about 'who' or 'what' the higher being is.

The other issue I remember (and I never got to the bottom of it) was that they use a different calendar. So said framed scroll had a different year at the bottom. Dear, kind but dim ex didn't know why that was.

Also, as well as 'charitable' works, they arranged nights out to lapdancing clubs - I can't see the Rotary, the Guides or the Brownies doing that Hmm . imo it's a bastion of sexism, secrecy and privilege.

FeistyLass · 23/03/2013 17:48

Vito I'm so sorry, I x-posted and wasn't being flippant about your experience at all.

springyhiphop · 23/03/2013 18:07

Their ceremonies are basically black magic and devil worship, though many of them will have no idea that that is what they are doing

Just highlighting this again. It has very sinister roots and the majority have no idea about that.

You said upthread OP that if it was anti-christian that would be a total non-starter for your DH. It is anti-christian on a major scale.

It's dead uncool to say so though, deemed as scaremongering and daft to make a fuss. But I'd make a huge fuss if any of my loved ones, particularly my husband, got involved. Seriously dark.

springyhiphop · 23/03/2013 18:08

many of them will have no idea that that is what they are doing

Bold fail - labouring the point

VBisme · 23/03/2013 18:12

I know some freemasons, they are as far away from intellectual as you can get, but they would like to be influential.

It seems like a poor quality working mens club round here.

saultanpepper · 23/03/2013 19:40

I only to aim to post once on this as some people are so deep-rooted in their blind hatred of Masonry that sensible discourse on the subject is unlikely.

Religion - Freemasonry is not anti-Catholic (or anti-Christian or anti-Islam or anything else). Freemasonry welcomes anyone (men into some orders, women into others) who believes in a supreme being - any one will do, we're not fussy, it can be God, Jehovah, Yahweh, Buddha, Vishnu, Allah, etc etc - and this is something that the Catholic Church can't stand. Catholics are banned from being Freemasons by Papal edict - several of them in fact - on pain of excommunication. I've sat in Lodge with other Christians, Hindus, Muslims, and Jews, all in the same room, and we were all friends and brothers. A lesson for some of the world's governments if ever i saw one.

Rituals - there are three degrees (I did smile slightly when the OP said she was going to give her DH the third degree :) ) in 'Craft' Masonry, and they broadly relate to birth, life, and death. The first degree, or initiation, teaches us to remember when we came into the world we had nothing, and thus when we encounter other people who have less than us we should exercise charity (one of the three central pillars of Masonry, the other two being truth and brotherly love). The second degree, or passing, is about working hard through life; and the third degree, or raising, tells the story of the death of the first Master Mason, Hiram Abiff, who was assassinated during the building of King Solomon's Temple. During the ceremony the mason being raised plays the part of Hiram Abiff, and is lowered into, and raised out of, a symbolic grave, which is where some of the occultist bullshit stems from, but there's nothing occultist about it I can promise you. Each degree has it's own apron, and yes, in the three degree ceremonies the trouser leg is rolled up, so that there is nothing to separate us from Mother Earth when we kneel to make the obligations. After completing the three degrees of Craft masonry one becomes a Master Mason and then, if he wishes, can go on to join Mark Master, Royal Ark Mariner, Holy Royal Arch, Rose Croix, Knights Templar, Royal & Select, Allied Masonic Degrees, and other orders.

Corruption - during the 60's and 70's it was rife, and it's true that a lot of masonic judges and coppers were bent beyond all recognition. To be clear, once and for all, Masons are NOT required to help other Masons at all costs. We promise to help 'a friend, or Brother, in need, that not being detrimental to our selves or our connections'. The language is old-fashioned but the meaning is clear: if you can help, do, but not to the detriment of family, friend, of career. Some people chose (and I daresay some still do) to interpret this differently but there are bad apples in every barrel and Freemasonry is no different.

Charity - the Masonic charities give hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to charity. Every air ambulance in the country is supported by their local Masonic province, and at least two lifeboats have been purchased outright with Masonic funds; the Royal Masonic Benevolent Institution owns and maintains 13 care homes for the elderly and are becoming leaders in dementia care, and London Masons recently raised enough money to buy a CyberKnife for Barts Hospital. Google it.

rgds
Saul

FarBetterNow · 23/03/2013 19:47

Saultanpepper:
Re the care homes - how do the fees for them work?
Do the patients pay or is it a freebie - a perk of being an FM?

FarBetterNow · 23/03/2013 19:52

Saultanpepper:
Freemasonry symols are the same as in Satanism.
The FM & Satan pentagram is one point down, the Wicca pentagram is two points down.
Etc Etc

saultanpepper · 23/03/2013 20:24

FBN
Care homes are like any other where fees are concerned - the individual is responsible for fees, which may be covered by the local authority depending on the circumstances. Beds are primarily for Masons or their families but if there's an empty bed and no Masonic-qualified applicant any one is welcome. We had the chair of Trustees of the RMBI deliver a talk at my Lodge and the work they do on dementia in particular is fascinating.

Symbols are used by different groups in different ways to mean different things - e.g. the Swastika is banned in Germany as a Nazi symbol, but it's also prevalent in Indian religious lore (Hindu, Jain, Buddhist); no-one in their right mind equates any of these religions with mid 20th Century German fascism, do they?

cjel · 23/03/2013 20:32

Saul, You skip over very quickly all the progressions and expect that to expel myths? lowering someone into a symbolic grave isn't weird?Your post sounds as though the charity giving is large it is not. also google it? It is not the parts of freemasons that can be googled that are sinister and secretive, its the parts that you gloss over that aren't open.

saultanpepper · 23/03/2013 20:45

'Google it' referred to the Cyber Knife. The charity giving is huge, several hundred thousands from the central Grand Charity every year plus God know how much from each province and individual lodge/chapter.

In the ceremony the mason is playing a role in a short play, what's weird about that?

What else do you want to know? Ask. If I know, I'll tell you.

LtEveDallas · 23/03/2013 20:45

Lowering someone into a symbolic grave isn't weird?

Eating bread and drinking wine pretending that its human flesh and blood isn't weird?

Telling a story about a man that rose from the grave isn't weird?

Promising martyrs virgins to play with in the afterlife isn't weird?

Cutting off bits of your sons flesh isn't weird?

FryOneFatManic · 23/03/2013 21:01

For those saying Guides don't have boys, this is mainly for the reason that if they admitted boys, then girls from certain cultural backgrounds are likely to be prevented from joining because of those backgrounds, to avoid them mixing with boys.

Nothing at all like freemasonry keeping women out due to a misogynistic viewpoint.

SimoneDeBeaver · 23/03/2013 21:13

Sault thank you for posting. You sound as if you know a bit more than most on this thread, including me.

And LtEve is right, the rituals are no more weird or illogical than religious ones.

But they still strike me as strange and archaic in the 21st century (and as a practising Christian, yes I see the irony).

But more than anything I just do not see why there has to be this huge level of secrecy surrounding it all. Although I guess perhaps that's the appeal, it's USP? Without it, it would just be another (very good and very generous) charity?

OP posts:
NeedlesCuties · 23/03/2013 21:21

It's the secrecy that bothers me most. Like it drives a wedge between a man and his wife. He goes out frequently (in some cases) and can't/won't tell his wife what he's been doing?

Doesn't sound good to me, and I'd go bucko if my DH joined it.

FarBetterNow · 23/03/2013 21:34

LtEveDallas: so you are equating Freemasonry to religion?

Saul In the ceremony the mason is playing a role in a short play, what's weird about that?
Top marks for effort.
So it's local amdram stuff with charity fundraising thrown in?

Pull the other one - it has bells on it.

LtEveDallas · 23/03/2013 21:50

Nope, was just pointing out the rituals used in religion are just as bizarre as the rituals used in Freemasonry. Didn't I make that clear?

saultanpepper · 23/03/2013 21:55

SDB
You're welcome. I agree with you that the rituals are a bit archaic - and yes, Chaucer would be proud of the irony :) but for me personally, the appeal is not the secrecy (as I'm trying to demonstrate it's not as secret as people make out) but sense of belonging and doing something worthwhile. By way of explanation, every degree has what's known as 'the working tools' which are stonemason's tools, but we apply the workings to morals or our daily lives, rather that stone. The first degree's tools are the 24-inch gauge, the gavel, and the chisel. The master of the lodge tells the new initiate about the tools in the ceremony, and the 24-inch gauge is my favourite - the 24 inches relate to the 24 hours in a day, 'part to be spent in prayer, part to be spent in labour and refreshment, and part to be spent in the service of a friend or brother in need' - hence charity is at the heart of who we are and what we do. Yes, we can do that without Masonry, but Masonry teaches us to be better people within a wider concept, which is the USP for me.

I should just also mention about what we call God and the holy book. In order that we don't have to change the ritual wording for different religious denominations, we refer to God (Jehovah, Allah, etc) as The Great Architect of the Universe (in the second degree it's the Grand Geometrician O.T.U.) and teh Bible (or Torah, or Koran etc) as the Volume of the Sacred Law. TGAOTU and the VSL ARE NOT a masonic God and holy book, they're just terms we use to avoid confusion.

NC - there is NO REASON why a Mason cannot tell his partner what he's doing. In fact, as someone mentioned on the thread earlier, the support of the candidate's partner is key as if she's not supportive, it would not be right for him to join. On other threads I've seen comments about masons not letting their families see what's in their masonic briefcases - this is bullshit, there's nothing in there you can't see in a shop window or the internet. I don't dispute that there are masons out there that do this, but They. Do. Not. Get. It.

rgds
Saul

saultanpepper · 23/03/2013 22:06

FBN
Would you mind expanding your comments? I stand my mine - the candidate is playing a role in a story.

To be clear - Freemasonry IS NOT a religion.

DrHolmes · 23/03/2013 22:21

Finding saul's input interesting.

Can you tell me what the significance of the Sun is? And the alignement or something and once it's all worked out what is the anser at the end? Do you know what I mean? I looked up freemasonary a while ago and came across a website with lots of stuff about the Sun as if a question will be answered when the masons work it out.

This is a bit of a garbled message but I can't think of another way to put it, sorry!

FarBetterNow · 23/03/2013 22:28

I repeat: Their ceremonies are basically black magic and devil worship, though many of them will have no idea that that is what they are doing

I am a 'Lightworker', which means I work and pray for the greatest good.
In doing so I use symbols at times. They are often the reverse of the symbols that FMs use.

FMs work for the good of themselves, as you yourself have stated: and part to be spent in the service of a friend or brother in need.

The FM charity work is mainly for themselves - again the Care Homes for FMs, being an example.

I am not saying they are all bad people, they aren't.
But the highest level FMs (that you deny exist) are devil worshippers.

saultanpepper · 23/03/2013 22:36

DrH
The Sun is mentioned in the opening and closing of the Lodge. In the opening, the Lodge Master asks his two Wardens (there is a senior and a junior) where their place is in the Lodge. The Junior Warden answers, 'in the south' and the Master asks why; the reply is 'to mark the sun at the meridian, and to call the brethren from refreshment to labour, and labour to refreshment, that profit and pleasure may be the result'. The Senior Warden answers, 'in the West, to mark the setting Sun, and to close the Lodge, having seen every Brother has had his due [wages]'. the Master also asks the guy who was master last year (the Immediate Past Master) where the Master's place is, and he replies in the East, for as the Sun opens and enlivens the day, the Master is placed in the East to open the Lodge and employ and instruct the Brethren in Freemasonry'.

The closing is very similar but in reverse, and uses a lot of the same words. Every Lodge room is set out with the Master in the east, the JW in the south, and the SW in the West, to make the ritual make sense.

saultanpepper · 23/03/2013 22:41

FBN
I don't deny high level Masons exist, I've met plenty. But they are not deveil worshippers, any more than you are.

As for charity - some Masonic charities do exist for Masons; they're akin to a union in that sense; but as I've posted before, there's a hell of a lot gets paid out to non-Masons, including the RNLI, St John's Ambulance, the Red Cross (for national and international disasters), the Cyber Knife, air ambulances etc - none of which could remotely be reserved for Masonic benefit.

Anyway off to bed now as I have a chest infection and want to be up tomorrow to watch the F1, so night night everyone :)