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Original poster

So after 14 years together, 12 years married and 3 dcs he lobs this out of left field ...

235 replies

SimoneDeBeaver · 21/03/2013 20:20

He'll be back late because he's going to a Freemason's dinner.

God I don't even know which bloody emoticon to put, as I don't know whether to laugh hysterically, cry or blow up.

This is a man who has always been fun, kind, thoughtful, supportive, dare I say it, a feminist. And he cannot seem to understand why this has left me feeling extremely unnerved. (mainly because I'm not sure what it is and why it is)

I mean, what do they DO? I know they do lots of charidee work, but we already give all we can afford, volunteer a lot, involved in church ... I mean, FTLOG why does he need to join what seems to me a misogynist, secretive, frankly rather silly old-boys club?

Aaaaargh!!

OP posts:
feetofclay · 22/03/2013 12:22

I'm reading all this with great interest, as I am in the same position as the op. My dp has recently been invited to join, and is quite keen, but I am instinctively uncomfortable about it. I think for me, it's the secrecy that is the biggest issue. It totally goes against the way we work as a couple.

And I don't get why anything good needs to be secret - it just seems all wrong. He says he won't join if I don't want him too, but I don't want to be a controlling nag. I have (somewhat reluctantly) agreed to go to a dinner tomorrow night, where I have been assured I can ask whatever I want and challenge whoever I like.

Hope they're prepared!

LtEveDallas · 22/03/2013 12:24

There is a big difference between judging and forming an opinion Kweggie, so that question is nonsense.

As for the secretive nature Kweggie - umm, I'd hazard a guess at tradition? The same reason I have to wear seriously uncomfortable and impractical Mess Dress to functions, and cannot get up from the table for a pee until midnight! It serves no purpose, but becasue they've done it for 100 years, it continues.

kweggie · 22/03/2013 12:29

That's not a secret though, is it LtEve? Only your bladder is suffering. I think you are trvialising but I don't know why.

badinage · 22/03/2013 12:32

Home secretaries and deputy chief constables tend not to be conspiracy theorists though. These were rational, educated people who were concerned about inexplicable aberrations in the justice system and the links to freemasonry.

Fortunately though, we've now got a climate where it's not so easy to dismiss allegations of conspiracy and wrongdoing. Because as has been proved, often allegations of conspiracy that once seemed fanciful were in fact unerringly accurate. Savile, Hillsborough, Elm House and the identities of the powerful men (including a different Home Secretary) who attended parties there. The links between Savile, the Haut-de-Garenne and a former Prime Minister.

It's already been pointed out that it's illogical to state that every ordinary freemason has a nefarious or criminal agenda. As illogical as it would be to state categorically that none of them have.

kweggie · 22/03/2013 12:32

judge - definition of judge by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/judge
To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration:

badinage · 22/03/2013 12:40

Tradition doesn't explain secrecy. If giving up a relatively meaningless tradition meant that an organisation would be able to defend itself against serious allegations, it would do it straight away. Secrecy brings greater gains though.

LtEveDallas · 22/03/2013 12:43

I really don't get why people get so wound up about things like this. To the point of rudeness and patronising posts?

If it's not for you (or your family) so be it - you cannot be forced to join at gunpoint. But why labour the point and harp on about things that you have read, or heard about or assumed?

Of course I am trivialising - I find the issue trivial. Not for the OP, not now she has cleared up the real reason for her distaste. I agree with the OP that a man (or woman) who is away from home 4/7 shouldn't be trying to get away for yet another night, leaving their partner picking up the pieces. But to be against something simply because of rumour, conspiracy theories and "I know a man that knew a man" strikes me as rather daft.

Masons probably were all knowing and all powerful 100 years ago, but these days? Meh, not so much. The world is different now.

(although I really do wish that the Army tradition of not leaving the dinner table would be phased out - my bladder control went the same way as my figure post DD - It bloody well kills me now [sad})

VoiceofUnreason · 22/03/2013 12:52

^ THIS.

Fragglewump · 22/03/2013 12:56

My husband answers any question I ask about freemasonry I actually find some if it quite interesting and some of it dull as ditchwater less so. I actually feel a bit sick and sad that some hysterical people are suggesting that child abuse etc is rife. I think there are historic links to the rosslyn chapel and the da Vinci code with all the Masonic symbolism but I haven't researched the detail. As far as being unable to leave goes its total hogwash my dh has left and rejoined a few times over the years as his work and home commitments have changed. I wouldn't dream of telling him what to do with his time as I'm not a nagging fishwife and have a life of my own. I'm proud of dh and the millions that freemasonry raises for charity including teddies for every child admitted to the local hospital. If you're scared then stay away but don't slag off all men who join as most are lovely.

badinage · 22/03/2013 12:59

I think the reason people get so 'wound up' about this is because we want a fair and just society where people are treated equally and because we know that isn't currently the case, for all sorts of reasons and not just freemasonry. Because there is a world beyond our own relationships and what affects us personally.

Ashoething · 22/03/2013 13:05

Anti-catholic bigoted twats.Thats all.

kweggie · 22/03/2013 13:05

Who could argue that raising money for charity is anything but good? but that's the visible part. Why not make it all transparent?

VoiceofUnreason · 22/03/2013 13:13

Ashoe - you are now making them sound a bit more interesting to me. I like lots of people who are Catholics but I have far more issues with the Catholic Church than the Freemasons!!

FarBetterNow · 22/03/2013 13:14

'Fragglewomp': No one has suggested that child abuse is rife and no one has slagged off all men who join the Freemasons.
I have particuraly been careful to imply and state the contrary.

VoiceofUnreason · 22/03/2013 13:25

There have been some female secret societies, of course.

There are probably far more than male ones, you women are so much better at keeping secrets Smile

kweggie · 22/03/2013 13:33

.:,-_'#,.,,. oh sorry Vof U, thought we were wandering off topic there , yawn....lol

LtEveDallas · 22/03/2013 13:33

Yes Fraggle, I have found a lot of the posts on here to be very rude, especially when there are a number of Freemasons and Lady Freemasons that are MNers, or the partners of MNers.

I really think there is no need for it.

VoiceofUnreason · 22/03/2013 13:40

So, these bloody Catholics..... Smile

zzzzz · 22/03/2013 13:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JustinBsMum · 22/03/2013 14:02

Sorry -haven't read all, but I thought freemasonry was largely a support group for themselves.
This lead to eg the police being made up largely of Freemasons, a natural occurrence if you are all 'helping' each other up the ladder, during the 60s and 70s, I believe.
So not a force for good imo.

Perhaps it contributes to the lack of women in boardrooms today? we'll never know because they are 'secret' (as women can't join).

Fragglewump · 22/03/2013 14:05

I'm not sure this hysteria is right - I think any man who believes in a universal force or however they word it can join. I think that the Catholic Church discourages members from joining as they think its anti catholic. I'm pretty sure that dh lodge has c of e, Muslims, Buddhists, pagans and Catholics amongst others. Also unsure of the disability thing - sounds weird to me and I'm sure some masons I've met are in wheelchairs. But 100% that women can't join. I wouldn't want to as all the ritual and stuff would bore me. Plus my dressing up outfits are much better.

zzzzz · 22/03/2013 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gingerandcocoa · 22/03/2013 14:31

Again, sorry I haven't read all of the posts.

Perhaps you could encourage him to speak to your vicar about it? He might be able to provide some insight into why joining the freemasons might not be a great idea...

FarBetterNow · 22/03/2013 14:43

It's not entirely true that the Church is against Freemasonry.
FMs have a chaplain and these can be vicars and rectors.

LineRunner · 22/03/2013 16:11

What bothers me a tad is councillors being masons. It is entirely possible to have, say, a licensing sub-committee made up entirely of three masons, with the applicant being a mason, and the advising council officer being a mason.

It is not the same as saying, 'Well they could all all theoretically be women in the WI'. That's a specious argument.