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Original poster

So after 14 years together, 12 years married and 3 dcs he lobs this out of left field ...

235 replies

SimoneDeBeaver · 21/03/2013 20:20

He'll be back late because he's going to a Freemason's dinner.

God I don't even know which bloody emoticon to put, as I don't know whether to laugh hysterically, cry or blow up.

This is a man who has always been fun, kind, thoughtful, supportive, dare I say it, a feminist. And he cannot seem to understand why this has left me feeling extremely unnerved. (mainly because I'm not sure what it is and why it is)

I mean, what do they DO? I know they do lots of charidee work, but we already give all we can afford, volunteer a lot, involved in church ... I mean, FTLOG why does he need to join what seems to me a misogynist, secretive, frankly rather silly old-boys club?

Aaaaargh!!

OP posts:
kweggie · 22/03/2013 10:17

Enid Blyton? Will there be lashings (of ginger beer)............................

DrHolmes · 22/03/2013 10:18

I do agree there has to be something dodgy.
Even the women who say their husbands/dads are one and they know nothing goes on... They don't really know. They do stand by each other and they will have secrets fromtheir partners. My brother is one although doesn't go now and he would not tell me one thing about it. He said they are sworn to secrecy and the men all comply.
My grandad was a policeman and he was one, i only found out a couple of months ago.
Apparently lots of police in it.

undercoverSAHM · 22/03/2013 10:24

Any secret male-only club is a bit dodgy tbh. Also, it's creepy when your DH keeps going out for whole evenings and saying he can't tell you where he has been or what he has been doing because he wore white nylon gloves, a blue polyester apron with bells on it, rolled up a trouser leg and swore not to tell. It is deeply misogynistic because it DOES involve them all swearing to help each other secretly and women are excluded. Promotion in some professions, particularly the police and the judiciary is cast under a pall because of this. I wonder if Jimmy Saville was one and that's how come he had sway with the police? Yes, it is very big in the police. I have connections with one of the very top lodges and it is stuffed full of people men in immense positions of power. It's very wrong.

Original poster
SimoneDeBeaver · 22/03/2013 10:29

Yes, one of the 'friends' who invited him is ex-police and stinking rich

scottishmummy I'm not claiming he's a right-on, gosh-how-liberal man. I suppose when I say he's a 'feminist', he has always believed deep down that women are individuals, with equal rights to working, earning, etc etc, and gone out of his way to change his work to support mine, made sure he does equal 'wife-work' and generally we are an equal team with no secrets.

Which is why this latest thing DOES NOT COMPUTE. Anyway he's home but we're both working so I won't be able to give him the third degree ask him about it til later.

OP posts:
Original poster
SimoneDeBeaver · 22/03/2013 10:33

I also know that he is surprisingly naive in unlikely ways so I honestly think he just knows nothing about freemasonry at all and just wants a boozy evening with old mates.

Still, I will make sure he does the due diligence (he will understand that Wink)

OP posts:
VoiceofUnreason · 22/03/2013 10:40

Ooh, don't use the expression "third degree", that's got Masonic connections you know. Seriously.

I can understand some scepticism over it, I can. But I do get annoyed with the trotting out of "sexist" and it's wrong that something is "men only". Are men allowed into the WI? The Mother's Union of your local C of E church? Can boys become Brownies?

I trust, in due course, should I fall ill and need hospital treatment, that if the usual wards are full but there is a space in a maternity ward, they'll put me in there. Otherwise that would be sexist.

Bitdifferent · 22/03/2013 10:43

But I know where my husband goes for the meetings and dinners. I've been there. It's just a suit of rooms in the city, not an underground cave. And all those saying there's all sorts on google about it why not just go to the freemasonry site?

motherinferior · 22/03/2013 10:44

He will come back singing , surely??

EasterHoliday · 22/03/2013 10:45

urgh, it's a bit like discovering he wants to join a golf club and wear cords and a blazer at weekends. How disappointing. The whole gin n' jag hyacinth bucket aspect of it is vile before you even get to the core values. My father in law was one, how he loved going & showing off his 25 yr younger wife at ladies' night... he did however see sense and now goes to Rotary instead which does its good deeds in broad daylight and in practical ways - he's been to Sierra Leone to build infrastructure etc.

kweggie · 22/03/2013 10:47

why not sugget he goes on a boozy evening with old mates then?Or take you out?

I think it works by appealing to (male) vanity..(WUP-DI-DOO, I've been INVITED), then they have to make promises to keep secrets, then they CAN'T back out. Is that what you want? A life partner who keeps secrets from you? I wouldn't. The fact that he tells you at the last minute would unsettle me. For 'S SAKE! Is this the 21st century or an episode of Sherlock Holmes????

Original poster
SimoneDeBeaver · 22/03/2013 10:50

sorry Voice but all-male clubs just wind me up. And it is NOT the same as not letting men into the WI. Men's clubs reinforce the huge advantages that men still have in our society.

motherinferior I think I will just show him that episode of the Simpsons. If he still doesn't get it I will despair.

OP posts:
kweggie · 22/03/2013 10:52

And BTW VoU, I didn't realise the WI, Brownies and the Mothers' Union meetings were held in secret, were by invitation only and swore to keep secrets fro non-members............................duh

LtEveDallas · 22/03/2013 10:56

Meh, I couldn't get upset if my husband wanted to do something on his own in his own time - whether that is joining a Squash Club, dressing up in a pink tutu, going to the pub or becoming a Freemason.

DH is a free man and able to do what he wants with his free time. It's nothing to do with me. I wouldn't dream of giving him any grief for it, or 'rethinking our relationship' , or denegrating him to the point of ordering him to 'do his due diligence' - Christ, is he not grown up enough to make his own mind up?

In fact, if I decided to join the Freemasons (or actually, more likely the Buffs in my case) and DH even commented I'd be seriously pissed off

Original poster
SimoneDeBeaver · 22/03/2013 10:57

kweggie I had that conversation when he told me. I said, 'If you want to go out for a boozy night, that's great but if you want to give more to charity, we just can't afford it.' and (he'd said it was about self-improvement) - 'What does it do for self-improvement that the church doesn't?'

And yes, the secrets is what really upsets me, however stupid they possibly are..

OP posts:
Original poster
SimoneDeBeaver · 22/03/2013 11:03

But LtEve it's not really the same as going to a squash club, is it? I would be delighted if he went to learn how to build a wall, joinery, Spanish, etc etc.

And it's not 'in his own time'. Of course he is a free man, but he has commitments to us. He chose this job over a local one so travels a lot. I am delighted because it is a great job and makes him very happy.

But we have very little time together as a family, and it has already eaten into it this week as I had to look after house and dcs for a further 12 hours after 4 days so he could go to this sodding dinner.

OP posts:
cjel · 22/03/2013 11:05

I don't beleive for one minute that its harmless and wouldn't want a partner who is involved. I have had discussions with people who went and joined. They are almost in tears when they remember it. They were not looked after when they needed it and considering the so called wealth of the groups they hardly give any to charidee. Dishonest and deceitful, would you consider anything else that was so secretive he would put them above you? What is it they need to keep secret? I would be very concerned!!

kweggie · 22/03/2013 11:07

LtEve Dallas, so glad your husband is a 'free man'. Obviously every one has free will, and this is fine as long as they are making good choices and that you yourself have your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears if you don't really want to know.
Personally I think Simone is brave, right and shows TRUE INDEPENDENCE OF THOUGHT to bring it into the open. Worthwhile things always bear close scrutiny and open discussion. IMO

EasterHoliday · 22/03/2013 11:07

it's a bloody good cover for anyone wanting to go shagging. Then again, so is golf.

Original poster
SimoneDeBeaver · 22/03/2013 11:11

LtEve would your DH really not care if you joined the Freemasons??

OK, maybe you have a different kind of relationship, but I do mind if my partner suddenly appears to have lost his mind been led astray.

He used to read the Guardian Grin

We used to listen to the Cure.

You see? Does Not Compute.

OP posts:
scottishmerlottish · 22/03/2013 11:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
SimoneDeBeaver · 22/03/2013 11:13

EasterHol funnily enough that is the one thing I really am not worried about.

OP posts:
VoiceofUnreason · 22/03/2013 11:14

kweggie - how do you know none of those groups ever have secret meetings? Our local WI looks very dodgy to me and how often I hear the cry of "why wasn't I at that committee meeting when X was discussed". I was being facetious. But the point is valid - take the secrecy out and what ACTUALLY is the problem with a group of guys getting together? It is no different to a group of women getting together. There are female only organisations as well.

I find it hard to take it seriously, to be honest. I know some really lovely people who are Freemasons. Fabulous people. Do I think less of them as a result? No. Would I want to join if asked? No. Not my thing.

But I have to agree with LtEve. I would have a problem if my partner basically told me I couldn't do something (unless it involved sex, murder or hurting animals).

I also have to laugh at how many people say it's the secrecy they have an issue with because I don't believe for one moment that EVERYONE on this thread tells their OH absolutely EVERYTHING. You only have to see the numbers of threads about emotional affairs - and physical ones - where large swathes of MNers say that the female offender shouldn't tell their OH what happened.

Original poster
SimoneDeBeaver · 22/03/2013 11:21

I'm certainly not going to say 'You cannot do this'. We just don't work that way.

But I want to make sure that he understands a bit more about what he's involved in. And more importantly the impact it might have on family time, finances and so on.

Honestly? I think the Freemasons bit is a bit of a red herring. I think it's more that we've been very careful to scale back spending on lots of things in the last 3 years, cancelled subscriptions, made sure voluntary work doesn't impinge on the weekends - and now he's announced he's coming back home 12 hrs late and £70 poorer. (that was the cost of the dinner).

OP posts:
kweggie · 22/03/2013 11:25

Voiceof Unreason, you have answered it yourself.

Quote 'TAKE THE SECRECY OUT'

Now that wasn't that difficult, dear , was it?

VoiceofUnreason · 22/03/2013 11:28

kweggie - apologies, it was Simone who directly below one of your posts who said she had a problem with all male organisations.