Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships....can it be 18?

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Nora - I was once told that it was ok for me to have opinions on 'floofy things like tea-towels' but not on important things anything that I disagreed with him about . I also recently came across an entry in my diary where we were arguing and he told me I made all the big decisions in the house. When I challenged him to name one, he answered 'You decided what clothes pegs to buy'.

I wish I was making that up!!!!

My counsellor today asked me what things I had been in control of. I said the dc, food shopping and organising paying the bills. Not really the money as he used to periodically make me account for what came out of the bills account. Not the food as I'd stopped cooking stuff he moaned about. I wasn't even in control of the heating.

Nora - yes, but if you do that bending over backwards thing, it becomes your problem, and your H doesn't have to make any of the effort and has something with which to jerk you around with. By all means help facilitate things by being flexible and amenable. If he hasn't got it in him to do what needs to be done to build a relationship with the girls, then that is his problem, not yours. By bending over backwards, you give him something else that he can use to control you.

Sorry, I know that maybe sounds a bit harsh. I do know how hard it is, especially in the early days which you are still in. After I first left, I went out of my way for FW to see his son every single day of the summer holidays. (I mean every day.) I never got any real appreciation for it, and the minute I was doing something else or couldn't make it I got the guilt trips - you are taking my son away from me, if you can't be bothered, just don't bother, etc.

pony that is one for the ridiculous things your narc partner or parent has said thread.

I did not have to have the same opinion but i did get to get told what my opinion was. as in 'well you obviously think x' when i didn't. He would actually preface an argument on telling me i had a contrary opinion which he kindly supplied for me so there was no need for me to take part at all

Matchsticks - being child or parent depending on situation - same here!

On the control thing my ex would say that i made all the decisions etc. Which i did in my house but because he abdicated from any decision making so he could complain.

He said he would not look after the kids because i made all the decisions there and consequently they are badly behaved. Rather than the reality. i made the decisions because i did the child care. and i didn't agree with his idea of discipline = control brought about by physical violence.

(That Said i am just after a full on rant at them for doing the same thing- unwinding an entire toilet roll- for the 3rd time this week. i hate having to get ranty with them but merely telling them no does not seem to work! ( but at no point during the rant did I call them names, swear at them or frighten the wits out of them))

Pony at the clothes pegs... though it's not funny.I wish there was a way to know what they're really thinking - do they really believe what they're saying or is it just to wind us up? H used to make big decisions all the time and didn't even tell me about them. He bought half a flat in his home country without telling me FFS. On the other hand I did make fairly big decisions on my own (bought my own car without his input) and he said nothing. Yet wear makeup to work and he'd be 'wtf do you look like?' It got me quite paranoid about my appearance!

Matchsticks I wasn't in charge of food either, because I was such a crap cook that he couldn't eat my food. Actually, he didn't like me shopping either because I bought all the wrong things. It feels really nice now, walking around Lidl and buying whatever I fancy just because I want it and not worry about him saying it's a waste!

Food and bills was because he was happy to leave it to me. The dc was because that was the one area I genuinely thought I knew more about than him, although when I had dd and knew nothing about babies he did a good job of making me feel shit in the very early days.

Sorry, another me post.

I'm feeling weak after hours of talking today. Almost all day, talking about the past and the future. The future is scaring me. He wants lots of contact with the dcs. He wants them to stay overnight frequently. He'd ideally like to have them live with him, but at least recognises that's not going to happen.

I'm boiling inside at all this, because how much has he actually done for the dcs when he could safely leave it in my hands? A token amount. He had the gall to say that they all managed fine without me when I was pg with dd3 ("No doubt it was difficult for you, but..."). [backstory: I was away from them for 7 mo with only limited phone contact apart from 2 visits] Didn't have the strength (having already spent hours explaining what he's done to me over the years) to point out that ds was like a feral child when I returned, dd2 had had serious emotional difficulties at school and they were quite sleep-deprived as he couldn't get them to bed on time (an hour or two late).

So now he's all interested in 50/50 contact. And has been fucking brilliant around the house and with the dcs today. If it's so easy, why did he never do it before??!?!? And if he takes a crappy job to be near the dcs, he'll be guilt-tripping me forever about how I get to say where we live these days and don't consider his career which needs him to be elsewhere.

I already feel like I'm being the unreasonable one. I just want to curl up and have it all go away. Want to go back in time and just put up and shut up, and look forward to the times he's away. I thought I'd be free, but I'm never going to be, am I?

Pony Leclerc I agree re. facilitating contact. I know that I shouldn't be staying every other night in our old flat but now it's started I'm not sure how to change it. I've realised that it isn't up to me to leave the DDs crying with H, but up to H to talk to them and help them understand that he loves them and that's why they should stay with him sometimes. He doesn't try to reassure them, just goes off on one about how he's their father and of course they need to stay with him. Then when that doesn't work (suprise, suprise!) he says that it's all my fault because I'm so soft on them that they can't accept rules anymore.

I keep reading that 50/50 contact isn't always best for the children - I hope that isn't so in our case.

Another 'child' here. Once when I pulled him up on it he actually said "well if you didn't behave like a child then I wouldn't need to treat you like one". I was so that I couldn't think of a reply

Charlotte no answers but sympathy as I am in a similar situation, except that H did do school pickups etc. before we split up. Hopefully, gradually, everyone will get into a routine that suits them WRT contact and then you will be free because he won't get any say in your day to day life.

Yes, that will be good. I'm panicking and assuming the worst. Have re-read my post and my problems look rather petty; I feel I should be able to deal with them. I hate negotiations, though, and there's lots of that ahead. I don't feel grown-up enough for all this.

Charlotte...I am willing to bet large money that when it comes to it he won;t be up for quite so much...the trouble is it's the next best way to assert control. try not to worry about whether you look or feel unreasonable...try to focus on what is RIGHT for your DC as far as you can.

charlotte I know the curl up and wait for it to be over feeling. I think you are just ahead of me (i'm having the talk next weekend) and I know it's going to get worse rather than better.

I think you need to take the long view. Yes he is being helpful and caring at the moment because it suits him right no. But if you did weaken (and I know you won't) then you know it will gradually slide and you'll be back at square one.

Living for the times when your husband is away isn't any long term life. Remember you are not going to be responsible for your husbands happiness (easy to say - something I'm feeling guilty about already, that I'm going to leave him as a sad and lonely old man). So really it is his decision where he lives and where he works but he cannot continue to expect the family that he has treated so badly to follow him wherever he chooses.

I think all of us need to learn to be a bit more selfish and do what suits us and our DC and not worry so much about how it will affect our FWs.

My first solicitor appointment is tomorrow. I feel so underhand. I feel guilty and upset. He left tonight to work away for a couple of nights and actually cried as he was leaving because he's going to miss us. Why can't he always be like this. It felt like a normal family for a moment. And how will I be able to look at home when I tell him it's over. I know I've just told Charlotte that she's not reponsible for her husbands happiness but this is just not in my nature. I know he's going to hurt and still want to stop that despite all he's done to me.

And I thought I'd be fine on my own and tonight I just feel so lonely.

look at him* when I tell him

Charlotte it's not petty - this must be a worrying time for you, all the changes and upheaval. It's normal to be stressed and scared but it's like childbirth in a way, it hurts but it's good pain because when it's over life will be better.

Thanks, bounty - I feel much better having read your post. I think it's because you took time to talk to me and you understand where I'm coming from - of course, in all my conversations with FW today, that's not happened once...

Thanks too, fool - I realised reading your post that I assume someone else knows what's best for the dcs. I always try to defer to the experts. I need to learn to have more confidence in my judgment. And to take one step at a time. (So get Fi's desire to have it all over, like NOW!)

Nora :o I think that's a fantastic analogy!

bounty I felt the sad too because I thought H would be unhappy if I left. I felt bad even writing on this thread because I was using his computer to say bad things about him, conveniently blanking out the fact that I was using his computer because he'd smashed mine.

What if you turn it around - does he worry about making you unhappy?

Nora: I've realised that it isn't up to me to leave the DDs crying with H, but up to H to talk to them and help them understand that he loves them and that's why they should stay with him sometimes.
I was more meaning that if they are not happy to stay overnight without you, and are distressed about it, then they shouldn't be staying overnight, no matter what your H wants. The contact is supposed to benefit the child, not the father. Have you spoken to a solicitor yet? They could maybe talk you through different options.

And Charlotte similarly, just because he ^wants 50/50, doesn't mean that's what's going to happen. Get thee to a solicitor and talk to them about all that's happened, what your concerns are, etc. You don't have to negotiate with him. That's what the solicitor is for.

bounty I went to the solicitor without FW knowing too, I felt terrible, like such a heel. But it was needed, as it is for you. He's making an effort right now, that is why he being like you wish he always was. but he can't sustain this, it's an effort for him. Yes, he'll hurt if when you leave - but think about your hurt. You need to get hold of your anger about what he's done to you.

You're all right (as usual )

No I don't think he really cares about my happiness. Or at least not when it conflicts with his happiness or desires. But I do think at times that he really truly loved me. One was on our wedding day when there were real tears of emotion in his eyes. The other was as I was being prepped for a c-section and again I could see that he really truly cared for me. I can't shake those memories from my mind. And today as he left for work I could see the same what looked like love again. But then he is cheating on me too (doesn't know i know yet) so perhaps it was guilt tonight as I suspect he will be meeting up with his OW poor woman who will probably end up in my situation whilst he's away.

Is it wrong to really hope it works out for him with her. I'm going to be sad and lonely but I'll feel better if he's settled and happy. How messed up is that. I should be wanting to slash his tyres, cut up his suits and take him for every penny that he's got.

Glad it's not just me with The Guilt