"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's March 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly use it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

GoodtoBetter

Your last sentence is correct, she does enjoy being miserable and wants to make you feel the same. You've probably been conditioned as well to call her as often as humanely possible, that needs to be worked on by you as well.

Ignore any future calls from her as of now, you are on holiday after all.
And no she is not sorry (narcissists do not know the meaning of the word) nor is she trying her best either.

I would also advise you to no longer send pictures of your children to her; she does not really want that because she's not interested in them as an emotionally healthy and happy grandmother would be (well only to use them as narc supply as well or choose her own favourite with the other child being assigned as the scapegoat). She just wants you to continue your to her assigned role of narcissistic supply. Every time you call its all about her. She will not change.

They are also masters of come closer so I can hurt you again.

The only thing that works to my mind with narcs is distance and ultimately no contact. I have very little contact with my ILs because they are both narcissistic in nature, I have to do this to protect my own mental health and sanity because they can and do drive you nuts. I watch their car crash of a life from afar and its not a pretty picture at all.

It is not your fault she is like this, her own birth family created that particular narcissistic monster.

You're spot on there Atila. Her own relationship with her mother was fucked up. Also about the golden vs scapegoat...she seems to be doing that with my DC (or at the v least DS is favoured).
I did use to phone her ALOT if we were away. Used to drive DH mad. Have made a big effort to not do that this time and have only phoned once and then cut it short when she was moaning about nothing. This morning she phoned me and then texted 3 times after...each one gradually more pathetic. I responded to the first suggesting she put the air con on and try to sleep. Haven't responded to the last one, because what to say really?
I struggle with guilt because I don't like to think of someone being unhappy, but it's not like I can do anything about it and what she's complaining about is nonsense really.

G2B, you know this is her 'thing' Stay calm and power yourself through it.

Remember how you dealt with it before, by not rising, by saying 'That's your decision' etc?

REfresher course! :)

I'm toying with the idea of opening a thread of my own, but tbh, I don't know if I want the exposure, it's humiliating and just crap.

My mother moved 3 weeks ago, but didn't give me any forwarding address. she's not told me whereabouts in the county she's moved to, but it's hours away. I know the county btw.

I've had manipulative texts from my Sis, both ignored. Her only interest in life is to hurt me, and this time I saw as no different. I have had a couple of calls from DM, all from her 'Private Number'. 1st couple of calls, she didn't even leave me her number, just left a message (I don't answer withheld calls), eventually she left her number on my phone. The second call - bearing in mind I didn't even HAVE any details for her - she was prickly and had an irritated and pointed tone to her voice. WTF

Last call was Friday, when she finally gave me her address. I wrote it on a piece of paper. Significant that her birthday is in a couple of weeks time?

She spoke to DS, and oddly asked him to write to her, so that she and he could exchange letters. It felt odd at the time, but i dismissed it. (He's 7 btw, writing is NOT in any way a favourite passtime of his).

Tuesday DS receives a letter, telling him she wants him to come and visit, the sea is near, blah blah, lots of love GMX

then a gap and an after thought, Love to Mummy too.

Instincts told me that it was manipulative, and was wrong. DS said he thought it weird.

I binned the card and the address. AIBU? I'm angered by it, it feels that she's trying to win my son over, pretend to be nice so she can tell others how she writes to her GS. while leaving his mother for dead, AGAIN

I'm in therapy again, because of this, I need the help to work out wtf it all is. Am 100& alone, hurt that she's done this to me, but sadly not surprised.

i don't know what I'm looking for, some understanding perhaps, reassurance that I have a right to feel hurt.

All my normal non-Stately Homer friends tell me to bin her, to take the hint and that it's disgusting what she has done. No-one I know (myself included) could ever imagine moving away from our children.

Sorry to ramble, so confused, bewildered, and dizzy with the feelings I have. I'm in shock somehow and wonder why on earth my family turned out to be so bloody awful, it's a sodding nightmare.

Everyone is telling me that it's not my fault.

I tell me that it's not my fault. I just don't believe it. :(

They are also masters of come closer so I can hurt you again

Yes. Absolutely yes.

Well done good, I bet it's better for your family too when you're not on the phone so much (and if anything like me, simmering for a while after)

hissy you sound so tired of it :(

I am.

I'd give anything to turn back the clock and not realise how monumentally crap they all are.

How on earth was I ever a member of that family?

Wouldn't -t be great if I was like them, i'd not notice then, would i?

:(

hissy She sounds like an utter loon and a manipulative bitch. You did right to bin the card, it was meant to wound you. Will check back later DC bedtime. xx

It's all done with such niceness. With the tetchy tone under if i'm not immediately jumping.

Would you understand if I said I find it so hard to believe that she's like this?

It just won't sink in. I don't want it to be like this.

hissy you definetly did the right think throwing out the card.
So sorry you are going through all this right now, must be dreadful.

Mil phoned up dh today after a few untoxic days and he's only gone and blabbed his working hours to her
Good thing is no more about contact has been mentioned.

By dh obviously, not sure whether she did...

I totally understand that. When my DM is "behaving herself" I wonder if it's me being a bitch, maybe she wasn't awful and I'm over sensitive or something. I have to remind myself of the awful things she said about me and DH and the suicide threats and all that and yet I still find it hard to believe it. It's one of the hardest things...the self doubt.

Can you go NC , seeing as she moved away anyway?

This thread is such an eye opener for me. I completely understand the self doubt too.

I feel sick at the thought, but I think if I were able to stand back and advise someone else, i'd probably suggest the same.

'you moved without telling me where' is about as grim as it gets isn't it? No matter what happens now, it's too little too late, isn't it? No coming back from this is there?

I'm supposed to suck it up aren't I?

If I react they'll eye-roll and say there she goes again.

I'm aiming for ice cold fact. My friends say better delivered face to face.

I don't have her address or number, she's deleted from my phone. Only an email address if I delve into gmail.

Do I ignore the birthday? I kind of have to really, have no way of contacting her really.

Sheesh, advising others is a lot flaming easier! :)

Do you think you can achieve anything by talking to her? However ice cold the facts? I don't know the back story but it sounds like a horrible situation to be in.

I think you ignore the birthday and if there's any comeback or eyerolling you stick to cold hard facts...she moved away with no forwarding address and has therefore made it clear she doesn't want you to contact her.

Would it achieve anything by talking to her?

Seriously? No. Probably not. We've already had conversations about her bailing out on me when my abusive ex left, and how not talking to me for weeks at a time when I was in real life purgatory, and they knew.

I've cried buckets telling her how i'd wish my sis hadn't deliberately hurt me so badly I had to sever contact.

I've pointed out that her H shrieking at me, repeatedly, having insulted me and not apologising, is not supportive and hurts. I've been clear that I see myself on the outside, put here by them all, but not knowing why.

All my life i've had people being god awfully mean, and she's stood by, allowing it.

I hate that I have to break away, but I do don't i?

I'd do anything not to have to have it like this.

Am I too old to put myself up for adoption? :)

How do I get to the place where I know i'm doing the right thing?

Where I feel I am doing the right thing?

I'm not sure, my love . Maybe go NC for a while - what have you got to lose and perhaps the relief at not fighting will give you more confidence that's it's right. If she weren't your mother you wouldn't put up with it. Don't be bound by blood to someone awful. (big squishy hugs) xx

You're so right! Thank you!

If she were anyone else I know i'd be clearer on this.

Everyone that knows me, know that I believe 'family' should be held to a higher account.

I think the stance I shall take, with myself as much as anyone, is that I need time.

I need time to process this, to consider how I feel, and heal.

Thanks G2B! That's really helped! :D

You're welcome, my love. You can't imagine how much you helped me on those first threads of mine at xmas time. You were so right about so much of what then came to pass and your advice is always spot on.
Ignore the old bat's birthday and have no contact with her for while, block or change numbers if necessary (after all, that's what she did to you) take some time without her needling at you and see how you feel. Bet you won't feel any worse

I have not talked to my mum now for 18 months after I left my ex off 16 years she supports him now and instantly took his side and blocked me out of her life
All I know is she isn't normal and I had a massive sense off relieve when I moved away from her as well as him I felt happier without her not too sure why really yet....

After leaving him I was controlled greatly 7 dc later we come rly lived in isolation

Now I do the same I am trying
I have no family except my Df, I have two mates who don't live near
I have never even worked I have no life
I'm so lost

If you can find a way to get yourself into work, it'll do wonders to deal with your isolation.

You're not alone on MN!

Plenty of us here to listen to you!

When my horrific ex left and my family fucked off to the moon (well, next closest place tbh) and then shunned all my attempts to recover, hampering me wherever possible, the only people who gave a shit were people on here, and my 2 friends (neither one in the same country as me)

We don't need RL people per se, just people with common sense that care enough to ask if you're OK.

Overwhelming sense of inadequacy/failure. Or is it just humiliation.

I could ask why forever and the answer'll never come. I just don't understand.