"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's March 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

<br />
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.<br />
<br />
This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)<br />
<br />
So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.<br />
<br />
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;<br />
<br />
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'<br />
<br />
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. <br />
<br />
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.<br />
<br />
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. <br />
<br />
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a><br />
<br />
I started with this book and found it really useful.<br />
<br />
Here are some excerpts:<br />
<br />
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.<br />
<br />
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.<br />
<br />
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:<br />
<br />
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly use it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".<br />
<br />
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".<br />
<br />
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."<br />
<br />
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"<br />
<br />
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."<br />
<br />
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."<br />
<br />
Helpful Websites<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a><br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a><br />
<br />
More helpful links:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a><br />
<br />
Some books:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Homecoming</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a><br />
<br />
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."<br />
<br />
Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

[pumpkinsweetie]

Glad it was better than expected good

Oh just when i thought things were silent on the il front, i get a private message on facebook asking "is there any chance the dc can come to mine as Aunty before she goes back home" We are Non contact, what part doesn't she get and whats more never ever are my dc setting foot in mil home where that man (fil) lives. Grrrr why can't aunt flipping *** make her own arrangements to see my dc fgs. The same aunt that git involved at xmas sticking her foot in about me going nc.

What should i do?

[GoodtoBetter]

If you are NC, I would ignore, like you say, Auntie can make her own arrangements if she's that keen.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Thankyou good, that was my thoughts straight away, so far i have ignored it and hoping to continue ignoring it unless dh hears about it. Then of course i will tell him the same, aunty wants to see dc she can provide her own message/phonecall on the matter.

Fwiw this aunt wanted to see dc at christmas but went through mil again then too, i told her she was welcome at ours if she wanted to see dc. She chose to harrass dh by text and also said if mil can't see them then neither can she. Survace to say she missed out and after bombarding dh with such nonsense i have began to realise she's just like the rest

Never liked that woman anyway, comes down a few times a year, stays at mils and helps mil with her "woh is me". It's like banging my head against a brick wall...

[Hissy]

Well done G2B AND pumpkin!

Both of you have seen through the crap, and come out of it the other side!

I emailed my mother calmly expressing my bewilderment at her decision to move and exclude me from all details.

She replied with a torrent of emotional blackmail.

'I'm in tears as your mother'

Erm, what? That doesn't make sense on ANY level.

She told an out of out lie, saying i'd not mentioned her move the last time I saw her. I called that out there and then and restated the bald facts.

I also said clearly not to try to emotionally blackmail me.

These people have no idea how far i've come, do they? They just expect downtrodden naïve, trusting little ol' me to just keep taking it don't they?

I suppose the thing is, they're used to dishing out this stuff, and they are used to me taking it.

They probably don't even know they are doing this, and certainly no clue as to why.

The only one that's changed here is me, and they don't know how to change themselves.

There's no hope for this relationship, is there?

[spanky2]

It so hard to realise that you don't want to put up with it anymore and they won't change . I still am trying to come to terms with not seeing them anymore . I am going to clean the house to make myself feel better !

[NameChangeToGo]

Hi good I'm mostly enjoying the peace still, thanks for asking! I'm impressed at how well you're handling your mum. Does it feel any lighter now that she no longer lives with you?

hissy I don't mean to put words into your mouth but do you find that the wish for a normal family relationship can set you back sometimes? You sound like you're taking no shit from them but that it's not yet making you happy.

Hope everyone's feeling ok.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Must be so hard hissy, it's bad enough being the dil of narcs but to be a daughter must be awful as it must be hard when you love someone no matter how toxic they are.

I wouldn't say i have quite come out the otherside, once dh gets to the stage some on here have that will be when i have completely come through. Birthdays & christmas are the main events that draw up problems between me & dh, mils is the end of this month and i assume the "woh is me" will start up 0 by then normally leading dh to become moody and sullen as he knows i will say no to any demands.

Well aunty still hasn't contacted us over visiting the dc so i assume it was more of the "woh is me" grusome twosome than aunt actually wanting to see the dc. I still haven't replied to mil fb message & i have no intentions of doing so. Dh did have a text of mil to which i said to him if aunt * really wants to see dc she will ask herself can't she. Dh seems to have handled it well so far.....

Still undecided on what to do at christmas tbh, will a one off visit before christmas stave of ils for christmas day/boxing day or will it make a situation out of nothing? Or do i keep completely non contact over christmas knowing dh will have ramped up harassment over xmas? Or will the harassment happen either way. I know it's early to be think and maybe over anylyzing things but i will be not long due my baby by then so need the arrangment in place which will cause me less stress at the time.

[pumpkinsweetie]

haven't come out

[Hissy]

NameChangeToGo exactly right.

I'm right, I know I am. Everyone agrees I am, all we read and see in the big wide world tells me i'm right, but being right doesn't feel right.

And being right doesn't make THEM any different. No matter how hard I wish it.

It's just bloody awful, excruciating tbh.

[NameChangeToGo]

Our situations are pretty different but I can see myself in what you write.
Family is so important to me, I'm surrounded by friends who have supportive and loving families, and a mum who says she loves me (its not as simple as that, but the words are there, and often).

So I find it very hard to let go of the longing for the mother figure I see my friends experience, particularly as I think my mum thinks she is one, iyswim. So there's a niggling feeling that I'm just creating the drama in my own head and that next time will be better.

I don't know if that makes any sense.

[GoodtoBetter]

I know what you mean Name when my mum's on her best behaviour I sort of forget the side of herself she's shown. It's hard as we used to be close, I just thought she was a bit clingy, but the last few years and especially since xmas have shown me she's not on my side. Can't get it down right, but I understand. The world's changed and it can't go bacj. Which is good but sad.

[Pawprint]

I love my parents but see their faults. All parents have faults and I am no different. However, there are some memories from my childhood that still disturb me, even though I am now in my 40s.

I didn't get on very well with my mum until I left home aged 17. She was depressed during my childhood but not treated for her illness. I don't remember her smiling or laughing much. Apparently, I behaved appallingly as a toddler and refused to use my potty just to annoy her. I was a disturbed child - my little sister (I wasn't even two years old when she was born) was very ill after being born and left with severe disabilities (she died of a long illness when she was 32 years).

For reasons I don't quite understand, my sis went to live with my grannie (over 300 miles away) when our little brother was born. The arrangement was that she live there for six weeks until my mum was better able to cope with three children (one disabled) under the age of four year. In fact, my sis stayed there until a few years before her death. When my sis was about nine, we moved to a house two miles away from Grannie's but sis didn't move in with us as she was happy where she was.

My mum's depression and worries over my sis (Grannie was a controlling woman and didn't want dsis to live away from her) took over life. She was given to getting very angry and would slap me around the face quite regularly. She seemed to think this was a proper punishment for a teenage girl who was, after all, too old for a spanked bottom. She would threaten to slap me and I was frightened of this as it really stung when she hit me. I remember, on one occasion, begging her not to hurt me but she just came at me, fists flying. She never apologised or came to see if I was okay, even if I had her handprint on my cheek for hours afterwards. Looking back, I wish I had confided in a teacher...

My dad has always had a short fuse and a very bad temper. I grew up thinking this was normal but clearly it wasn't. He would explode in anger and throw glasses of water over me etc. I have bipolar and suspect he has it too.

Now that I am an adult, with a family of my own, I can see that life was difficult for my parents. My dad worked abroad a lot and my mum had a lot to cope with. My dsis became very ill when she was about 11 and was ill for most of her life. She spent a lot of time in hospital and had behavioural problems - tantrums, obsessions and so on. Not her fault, but very difficult to deal with.

Last year, I went to stay with my parents. My father was awful - made nasty remarks about my parenting methods and blew up at me because I'd accidentally left a light on.

One morning, whilst staying with my parents, I went down to make some toast and set the fire alarm off. Dad came storming downstairs, screamed at me and pushed me out of his way. I was appalled and very upset. He has a cutting, dismissive way with words and I don't know why my mum puts up with it.

Now, they are doting grandparents to my son and, in other ways, are very kind to me and have supported me re. the bipolar etc.

What has caused me worry, in the past, is that I have inherited my dad's filthy temper and tendency to snap. My dh made it clear that he wouldn't tolerate being shouted at etc so I learned to stop. I am much calmer these days and am aware that my dad's behaviour wasn't acceptable.

I don't think my parents are narcissists, but I am still haunted by the past. Sorry this got long.

[pumpkinsweetie]

My lord i feel like smashing the landline up, bloody mil keeps on ringing it and ringing it. Dh is ignoring her too as i told him too.

What part of ignoring her doesn't she get, hasn't she figured out that aunt can make her own arrangments grrr.

For one day today i put a status on fb, explaining i was having a day in with dcs and thought not to hide it from ils- wish i had now because she obviously knows i'm in hence the phonecalls.

Dh is acting odd just like he used to, moody & withdrawn and i can only guess why. Sick of that family, what they do to him, i and us. Just wish they would piss off.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What your MIL is doing could well amount to harassment. I would make a note of all the times she is phoning you and take action.

I would at the very least block her number from your phone and use BTs choose to refuse service. Again a discreet word with a Solicitor may be useful.

Again your DH cannot or refuses to see (both scenarios are equally likely as denial is a powerful force) the damage that they his birth family are doing to you his own family unit now. He always also goes quiet as well, that is his default defence coping mechanism.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Would stay off FB as well; it is a useful tool for dysfunctional parents like your H's are.

I would seriously consider deleting your account from FB altogether; it is more trouble than it is worth.

[GoodtoBetter]

I think you need to delete FB or block them and block them on landline or change the number. They can call DH on a mobile if he's not NC with them.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Thankyou, have worked out how to put my landline phone on silent for now but obviously that isn't a longterm solution as we could be expecting calls from others. I pretty much doubt dh will agree to changing phonenumber due to this reason but due to many nuisence calls from operators we get u may be able to sway him. But then there is still the possibility of him giving out our new number to her

I really don't want to delete my fb account but i will start hiding everything from her as i don't think it's good for her to be having any insight into my daily activities.

Dh is out at present, and i do hope he has kept up with ignoring her as i cannot stand the aftermath when he is under the fog, not to mention he has my 7yo dd with him and none of this is good for her.

It's mil birthday very soon, just over a week away, this is only going to get worse. I must learn to ignore, ignore then ignore again and not allow it to get to me.

[GoodtoBetter]

Can you block her number or get an answerphone and screen the calls.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Could do better and thats next on the list if this continues!

She tried to phone dh 4 times on his mobile today, and 3 times on the landline that i know of that's 7 times. Either someone is dead or she's up to something aggggaaaaiiiin. Wonder which it is

Thing is she isn't one for phoning for a normal conversation, never has been. It's always woh is me, can i this, can i that and due to aunt being down i assume it would have been woh is me, and poor aunt not being able to see the children.

The aunt that couldn't keep her beak out at christmas, the aunt that spends whole days & nights with mil to ridicule my bil re dhs sisters husband, slagging him off as he likes a drink now & then & because he is unemployed, when quite simply sil could get off her arse too but of course she is golden. The aunt that pinchs my pfbs cheeks and puts her hand round her mouth as a 'joke'! And who bought my pfb boys pants one year because my dd was a tomboy at 3!

I am glad i don't go round mil anymore, having to listen to the constant moaning on about bil whilst he wasn't there to defend himself. Sil was even there once, but she just let them carry on. I have always wondered what they say about me now

I still remember when sils baby was born premature and we had gone round mil for dinner. The entire time we was there she proceeded to tell me that the baby was ugly like it's father and she hopes her looks change in time and oh and of course the normal moan about her baby being another girl
Nevermind that her grandchild was in hospital being fed through a tube and on breathing apparatus. I still remember visiting my niece and my bil told me he was made to cook dinner round mil because they cba to do it!
It was the one time i had respect for sil having a premmie with parents with such little respect, but sil is back in their pockets again and she causes trouble now. Think it's because mil & fil use her as a go between. But of course she is either too clouded or as toxic as they are!

[Hissy]

Pumpkin, block her from FB fgs! Fundamental!

Reassure your H that his ignoring her IS the right thing to do, you know it's hard, and that he hates it, but to think of the alternative.

With mine, I have just learned Again, not to attempt to reason with the unreasonable.

I sent a calm email. Expressing my bewilderment at her choice to exclude me.

Reply was as we can all predict. :(

I hoped, again, that she'd see.

I'm a FuckingMuppet. Wonder if that NN's taken on here, cos I really deserve it!

Oh well, my intentions were good, I tried.

[pumpkinsweetie]

I would block her, i did it last year but she found out and lets just say it is more trouble than it's worth.
Worked out tonight how to keep all my future posts and pictures unviewable by her and the entire inlaw clan. I put them into their own group and i'm set up to customize future post to be unseen by them. And i have now put a stop to them posting on my wall aswell as messaging Fb i have finally worked you out!

She has tried our landline in the last hour so it is now switched off completely

I hope dh finds it within himself to keep up with ignoring her but unfortunetly that never lasts.
Got my anomanly scan tomorrow so i cannot deal with her shit right now as i'm quite nervous and not meaning to sound me me but this is my moment not hers. I shall not let her ruin it as i'm quite happy to have reached 20 weeks after my mc in feb.

[Hissy]

What's the worst she can do?

The police and rhe legal system are there for a reason!

Block her, live your lives and ftfo to anyone who tries to disturb that! :)

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Make her restricted. You can add her to that list. Much easier. Then unless you post photos or status updates with a 'public' privacy setting. She'll never see a thing new you post. Go into privacy and blocking and the restricted function is there and explains all about it and how it works. All family members of mine were restricted at one time. As I didn't want one to say to another 'oh did you see what Mome posted on fb' etc. As then they might wonder why it hasn't come up on their newsfeed.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Feel so sad right now, i'm in tears
Dh has just had a blazing shouting match with me because i won't agree to the kids seeing mil & aunt sat.
He basically said if he leaves me, he can do what he want and take the kids round ils when he wants. Then a complete lecture asking for what his parents ever did wrong.
He won't even come to bed with me when he has been on nights all week.
I even said i'll agree to dc seeing her fri if it would make him happy but oh no wasn't good enough for him and he continued to shout somemore. I couldn't eat my dinner so went upstairs to bed alone.
He followed me shortly after and hugged me and we then went back downstairs.

But again the row started, i said how can he do this to me the night of my scan. He said he will agree to fri as he has no choice in a scarling voice. But again more moaning saying fil has changed and mil can do no wrong etc etc. He then said he will not be coming to bed with me.

Right now i hate him & i'm not even sure wtf to do. I'm so upset i told him if he isn't up here later he can leave as no real man treats a woman like this at a time like this.
He just ignored me, but before going up i said he is clouded and needs to wake up and smell the coffee before he has no-one but them.

I have said if he threatens me with leaving and taking dc to pil home new baby will not be getting his name or surname on the birth certificate so atleast one of our dc is protected.

He isn't with me on this anymore whatsoever and i think this has been leading up to this for a while
His withdrawn and unhappy moods obviously showed he had this in store for me tonight, how fucking lovely.
Sits down to watch a film and eat a nice meal and again we are back to this. I cannot stop crying, i cannot believe that again we are back where we started before one against the other and this is even after a very generous compromise on my part.

[Hissy]

I think he took a call.

He's been sucked back in.

Calmly sit him down and say that Aunt has all the info she needs to make direct contact, but won't.

She prefers to engineer situations to inflame.

Ask him what's changed between last week and this week?

Tell him that it's a bad idea to make a snap decision, and you both need a couple of days to carefully consider all the aspects of this.

Compile a reasons for and reasons against list. Do this WITH your H. Remind him calmly of what brought you to want to end contact in the first place.