"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's March 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly use it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1698597-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

"she did the kicked puppy look" that should say.

You might find this link reassuring

hard though. It would be so lovely to have a normal mother, one who is genuinely maternal and kind and straightforwardly supportive.

Oops, paste fail. That could have been worse!

Try again...

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/narcissism-spectrum.html

I have have found the book will I ever be good enough really helpful . That website is really good too .

Mil phoned my mil landline again at 9 this morning, what is wrong with the woman
Dh is at work so either she has tried to bother him at work first or she has rang this phone knowing i'm alone so she can intimidate me.
I didn't answer it but for godsake i know we have kids but 9am seriously that woman has a problem!

I meant my landline not *mil lol

Sorry to barge in here...........

It is approaching 3 years since i had NC with my mum and step dad. I wish I could say I am over it all but everyday I think of my family.

My husband went to Afghanistan last year and I wasn't contacted once before, during or after by anyone else in my family.
So I decided to change my phone number (i live far from home due to postings), not send out my new address and block the remaining family on facebook. They didn't care for me anymore either as they have had all my mums side of the story for the last three years.

My step dad did some sexually abusive things to me over the years.I was terrified in my home from the age of 11. My mother said "always do what your father tells you - he has taken us on out of the goodness of his heart".
I have an inkling my mum knew about some of it but chose to stay quiet. In fact she made it very clear that she was jealous of my stepdads fascination with me - punishing me in later years with emotional abuse. They were both very controlling and invasive.

My family know nothing of this. I am quite sure they think I am mad for secluding myself away like this. I once tried to tell my brother in a text..he told me I was making some serious allegations. That was all.

I hate the fact that they all hate me and none of them know the truth. I could never ever say the words of what happened to me.

That's bloody awful. I think you've made the right choice to cut all contact but it must hurt so much that he didn't believe you. I believe you.

Talk some more if it helps. This is such a safe place. What would you like to do about it all if you could?

Must have been very hard when your H went to Afghanistan. Is he still there?

Thank you Dontstep -
I have visited this thread over the years - under a number of long forgotten names.

My husband came home in April and we are all back to normal. It was my birthday recently and that always drags up the past. I was sad about my birthday and my husband asked why..

I explained that on that day somewhere my mother would be all 'woe is me, my daughter disowned me', my family will bad mouth me for breaking their hearts ad infinitum. They think badly of me.

But i know I can never explain what happened..it would look vindictive and false on my part.
It is also very difficult watching my children grow up with no extended family. They ask questions but it is so difficult. My husbands family mostly live overseas.

Just having a down day

Oh ringmybell birthdays must be hard. I cried on Fathers Day as my Dad is such a horrible man and no father to me. I could only imagine your situation. I'd want to defend myself, to prove my innocence and who was at fault. In your situation you cannot and no one would believe you. So you have to live with these feelings day in day out and never get the justice you so richly deserve or the love you crave from family. Knowing she is speaking badly of you, without anybody defending you or knowing the truth.

It must feel so lonely sometimes. Wish I could give you a squeeze and

you have already made me feel better by understanding how I feel. Thanks so much. I am sorry about your dad. Wish we could be as cruel as them and not care X

sammyad that's a pretty serious crime committed by your bf mother there. I could not leave my for some with a mil like they EVER. Have you thought about that? When you have kids? It really is something to bring up at a suitable time with your dp in the distant future.

Hi Natasha

I found the pressure from some of my brothers to fix things with my Dad and from my Mother very hard and it made me angry at times, as they are all so good at minimising his behaviour and justifying it. I sometimes felt that they were/ are blind to just how unacceptable his behaviour is. But I found the guilt hard at times too. I'm still NC with Dad.

We talk a lot on here about Fear Obligation and Guilt (FOG) and seeing through that. Try to see through all that and the associated guilt tripping by your sister.

You have made the right choice. It was your Mothers choice to delete you on fb in a fit of anger. Just like my Dad did! And not seeing her is also the right thing to do. You shouldn't have to have anyone in your life who is abusive. The fact you are feeling so much peace, shows it was the right choice. I would keep being firm with your sister, say you do not wish to discuss it and change the subject.

I sometimes wonder if my brothers will ever see just how awful my Dad is and that no one has to put up and shut up or excuse the behaviour. But I was the scapegoat and got his wrath far more than them.

I really hope you can access some affordable counselling and find those books helpful. Please keep posting as things stir up, that you want to talk about. It's quiet on here at the moment but people dip in and out when they can. It's a safe place where people understand.

Was after your advise. Im not sure if my mother is toxic or just very manipulative.
I moved to be near family after divorce and moved in with parents. I hated every second the arguing between my parents the interfering from my mother and the guilt trips.
Fast forward a month and i found a place to live. I got my space back but she would constantly call and offer to help.
I've now decided to move back to my old town as i can not deal with being close to my family.
So i told mum this and everytime i see her i get. Oh Im going to miss my grandchildren. Oh I'll miss the cuddle. Im stepping back as you wanted. I had a dream your children wanted to stay with me. Im getting old i won't see the girls that much. I've lost you before Im losing you again

i just don't know if Im over reacting. She calls every day and i feel stifled. When i visit the constant arguments between my parents and the guilt trips make me

Sorry posted to soon.

Make me not want to visit them. I can not remember a day they were not arguing or putting pressure on me.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Well it's not really about what's best for you here but all about them or should I say her?

Will you still allow her to see DC occasionally in controlled visits for short periods of time? What do you want to do once you move?

I think you have made the right choice in moving and having some distance. I would find it stifling if my Mum called me every night but I wouldn't say we're close. Although on another thread on mn last night, I was amazed at how many women did speak to their Mums every night. I've never had that sort of relationship with my Mum. I wanted to do Mum and daughter things together but she would agree and then never get back to me on a date and time. I'm a little jealous of people whose relationships with their parents are healthy, loving and close. These days my Mum spends any phone call trying to show me how lovely Dad is and that I should make amends with him and lecturing me on my parenting But this isn't about me. Sorry.

In your case your Mum is guilt tripping you. It's not healthy for your DC to be in an environment where there is arguing all the time and it's not helpful for you either. When your marriage has ended and you're coping as a lone parent, you need good people around you to support you, not people who will make it harder or more stressful. I really feel for you. I think you do need to set some new boundaries on frequency of phone calls and visits. But you must be feeling very conflicted at the moment.

Have you read any of the links in the original post?

I haven't read any of the links as Im conflicted about whether my mum is toxic. Everyone thinks she is lovely and helpful. She does help a lot but it never feels like helping just interfering.
Family think Im silly moving back as mum will be devastated. But i just need distance. I Sat last night remembering my childhood and culture i could remember was arguments between my parents. My mum never going ou and always wanting to please my mum.

My children are always shouted at when i take then to reps. If i have been ill so has she. My brother has only just left home and he's 36 and if wants to move back. The second i could leave i did.
My head is all over the place as i keep thinking Im being mean to her.

I do love my mum but i just can't deal with her.

Re accessmy parents will prob visit three times a year and stay at mine. The relief when they leave is massive. I just feel she regrets her life choices and is trying to live it through my life now.

Its amazing she can make me feel so bad doing something i want and know is right.

Reading your reply I do think she's manipulative and I do think she is a little toxic. But read the daughters of narcissistic mothers link and see if you relate.

I found the slow realisation that my Dad was toxic, hard in some ways. It's painful as you realise they'll never be the parent you long for, it's also painful as an awful lot of memories start surfacing, as you begin to process it all. And some of the memories hurt and some can make you angry. I would recommend reading a few books on the OP as you start this journey. So you can decide on the best way forward for you. It is possible to have a relationship with our parents but with some boundaries but it's also equally ok to go NC. You have to decide what's right for you.

Try not to allow the FOG to muddy your choices here but think about you and what's best for you and your DC. Easy to say though. I was stricken with the guilt and obligation as I tried to go NC But to repeat myself. I think moving is the right choice for you.

Hopefully some others will be along later to give their pov.

Just put a new thread on in relationships about dh pressing for contact. What would you do?

Raspberryfool I can hear so much of my mum in yours. Even down to the 'I had a dream...'. Grrrrrr. And like you, I avoided the links, and this thread, because I always figured it was insecurity and being a bit overkeen to help.

I've posted here before about my mother. (Seems to fit the engulfing/histrionic narcissitic description). We are at the beach 90 mins drive away. We are away for just over 2 weeks. I texted when we arrived and then sent a couple of pics of the kids. Obviously not enough as then when I phoned after a week she was obviously annoyed and practically monosyllabic. After a couple of minutes I said I had to go as it was almost impossible to have a conversation. Obviously fishing for me to ask what the matter was so she could do "woe is me" and then I'd twist myself into knots to appease her. I think not.

So, today we get the passive aggressive woe is me I can't cope alone bullshit call. Apparently she's ill, it's too hot (tbf it is 40º where we are, but she has air con in every room), she can't cope, she's "in the pits of hell", she'll have to go back to the UK, she can't afford to buy in the UK anymore she'll have to go into a home, one of the showers in her house (NOT the only shower) only runs cold, she can't sleep at night...yadda yadda yadda.

Followed up by 3 texts, she's so sorry, she's trying her best, so sorry.

It's like the woman enjoys misery.

Ignore, Ignore. Ignore.
And..... breathe.

you see I ran around for years pandering to her every whim because I felt if I could just fix things she'd be happy. But she never is...it's like she enjoys being a misery..it's like a drug. She can find the negative in everything.
One of her complaints is she can't sleep because the town fair is on behind her house with v loud music blaring til 6am, but it happens every year, she could have organised to go away.
Once the phone call didn't work (I was just v non commital...lots of hmmm, yes..oh dear) she resorts to the pathetic..."I'm so sorry, just trying to cope". Such drama always. Why? To manipulate me, to punish me for escaping from her control, for no longer putting her above everyone including my DH and DCs.